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Is the Naga dead to you, or are you still excited for it?
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Allaera
Kalmincon
#121 - 2011-11-22 14:21:10 UTC
Klown Walk wrote:
Don´t see the point of adding 2 hybrid ships.


Why not? It's not like it's unprecedented.......Brutix and Ferox Blink
Fronkfurter McSheebleton
Horse Feathers
CAStabouts
#122 - 2011-11-22 16:53:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Fronkfurter McSheebleton
Allaera wrote:
Klown Walk wrote:
Don´t see the point of adding 2 hybrid ships.


Why not? It's not like it's unprecedented.......Brutix and Ferox Blink

Hyperion and Rokh also came in together...and I suppose are just battleship versions of the same thing. : /

thhief ghabmoef
Tanaka Sekigahara
United Space Marine Corp
#123 - 2011-11-22 19:16:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Tanaka Sekigahara
DarkAegix wrote:
It may be a better ship now, but it isn't as exciting.


This.

Naga is gonna fill a nice gap that will make Caldari combined ops a challenge for opposing FCs

Bottom line is you can sit out at 120K and deal over 500 DPS.
Or 620 at 93K
Or 450 at 140K

Put a couple of them out there with a pair of rooks and a couple of cal navy caras and you can lay down HML fire and ECM over a hundred K in support of a fight on the gate( where you have your HAM Drakes and RocketBills to tackle and tank).

With a little imagination and the right friends this ship will be OK.
Mr Naga wants to fly with Rooks and CNCs' and tear up enemy fleet support.
This guy is gonna be an evil bastard sitting off a gate with proper support.

Bring in the torp Ravens, the Rokhs and the Logis once the fight is joined and decide the issue.Should be fun.
Tanaka Sekigahara
United Space Marine Corp
#124 - 2011-11-22 19:40:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Tanaka Sekigahara
OT Smithers wrote:
Havegun Willtravel wrote:
As it stands now it's a very nice gun boat, but honestly I don't think that was what anyone wanted.

Every race has a few ships that have a launcher high or 2 but it truly is Caldari's main weapon system.

The simple question is this. How many Caldari pilots have torp's or cruise 5 trained vs large hybrid 5 ? Every other race got to play to their main weapon systems strengths except the Caldari.

As it stands I can see the Naga being more popular with Galente pilots than Caldari.


Obviously. It's not even a Caldari ship. It's a second Gallente BC. The typical Gallente pilot, even assuming they lacked any Caldari ship command skills at all, could be flying this baby maxed out in a week. The typical Caldari pilot, having no hybrid skills or gunnery skills to speak of, is looking at five or six months to use this ship properly. It's ridiculous.



When you were a wee bitty Caldari Pilot, The first ship you got into worth a damn was the Merlin, which had rails.
The next ship up was a Cormorant, which was a railgun platform.
After that when you went cruiser, you saw the heavy cruiser was a hybrid platform.
The first BC you could get was a Railboat.
When you went BS you saw the Rokh staring at you at the end of the line, the culmination of Caldari weapons development.

So, the question is, WHY DIDN'T YOU TRAIN RAILS????

They have ALWAYS been a Caldari weapon, and noone elses, really.
Learn how to fly something besides a Drake.... and I say that as a Caldari pilot who LOVES his Drakes.Just cause the lazy have pidgeonholed themselves is no reason to continue to neglect half the ships in the Cal Lineup.

Naga is a fine ship. Train heavy rails, and it's support skills, and lo and get hold, you will find you will then be able to fly most of the ships in the game within a month.
Lord Calus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#125 - 2011-11-22 19:57:06 UTC
Speaking as a Caldari pilot with no points yet into turret weaponry .... why would I not just spend < 60 days crosstraining into Mattar w/ projectile turrets and the OP Tornado?

Once again we get the bait and switch. Just take hybrids out, refund the SP so everyone who has not already trained projectiles can use them? Better yet, how many people have already trained projectiles and are using them on "hybrid" boats because hybrids are so sub par?

Caldari chars already have missile skills, and shield tanking skills ..... yep. Mattar it is. Nice try with the "diversity" CCP but I think I will just go in the direction of the broken weapon system. It isnt FOTM when it has been superior for over a year.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#126 - 2011-11-22 20:11:15 UTC
Lord Calus wrote:
Speaking as a Caldari pilot with no points yet into turret weaponry .... why would I not just spend < 60 days crosstraining into Mattar w/ projectile turrets and the OP Tornado?

Once again we get the bait and switch. Just take hybrids out, refund the SP so everyone who has not already trained projectiles can use them? Better yet, how many people have already trained projectiles and are using them on "hybrid" boats because hybrids are so sub par?

Caldari chars already have missile skills, and shield tanking skills ..... yep. Mattar it is. Nice try with the "diversity" CCP but I think I will just go in the direction of the broken weapon system. It isnt FOTM when it has been superior for over a year.



While I admit I was looking forward to the Naga as a missile platform, I have to also admit that it was severely underwhelming and would've been a total waste. As it is now, the Naga is the only Tier 3 BC I'm actually looking forward to.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Jennifer Starling
Imperial Navy Forum Patrol
#127 - 2011-11-22 22:23:35 UTC
Tanaka Sekigahara wrote:
When you were a wee bitty Caldari Pilot, The first ship you got into worth a damn was the Merlin, which had rails.
The next ship up was a Cormorant, which was a railgun platform.
After that when you went cruiser, you saw the heavy cruiser was a hybrid platform.
The first BC you could get was a Railboat.
When you went BS you saw the Rokh staring at you at the end of the line, the culmination of Caldari weapons development.

So, the question is, WHY DIDN'T YOU TRAIN RAILS????

When I ws a Caldari pilot I noticed that even small frigates have double weapon setups which isn't exactly very newb friendly. So I found out a Kestrel is quite a perfect little missile ship. And requires way less skills so I could concentrate on better missile and support skills.

So I read the forums and reviews about ships. The performance of hybrid boats like the ugly Moa, Ferox and Rokh seemed to be rather underwhelming and Drakes, Tengus and Ravens were appreciated a lot more.
Like a lot of other players I trained Amarr laser ships instead. Who in his/her right mind would tyrain hybrid boats unless you're Gallente?
The question isn't WHY DIDN'T YOU TRAIN RAILS??, the question is WHY WERE RAILS SO BAD NO-ONE WOULD TRAIN THEM??

I agree that the Naga is more a Gallente boat than a Caldari boat. Many if not most Gallente pilots can already use T2 Large Hybrids, which takes over a month to train while Caldari Cruiser IV .. 4 days?
Misanthra
Alternative Enterprises
#128 - 2011-11-23 00:13:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Misanthra
Lord Calus wrote:
Speaking as a Caldari pilot with no points yet into turret weaponry .... why would I not just spend < 60 days crosstraining into Mattar w/ projectile turrets and the OP Tornado?

Once again we get the bait and switch. Just take hybrids out, refund the SP so everyone who has not already trained projectiles can use them? Better yet, how many people have already trained projectiles and are using them on "hybrid" boats because hybrids are so sub par?

Caldari chars already have missile skills, and shield tanking skills ..... yep. Mattar it is. Nice try with the "diversity" CCP but I think I will just go in the direction of the broken weapon system. It isnt FOTM when it has been superior for over a year.




I mix and match. your projectie rokh (soon naga if wanted) would be small pick up fleet setups. Fleet fit generally will be rails.


dependnig on application it doesn't even matter tbh. Shoot a pos...425 II rokh is fine imo. Its not arty alpha of doom. Like it mattera on a large...the dps difference is not getting you and your 100 friends without momies support off that pos you are shooting that much faster.

BS to BS pvp...rail are less dps but more range. don't land with the pests and kite. Rokh lives longer as only ship with a similar optimal to hit is.....a rokh. enemy pest on his optimals to kill your pests hits a rokh for less. lose sometning, gain something kind of thing. work what you got.

I trained both but more for the BC's. I wanted a gun bc that didn't suck ass. did large for giggles and to run pest and maels for more options. Still would run a rokh...you learn to like em. naga shows some promise as well for this.
Alyssa Yotosala
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#129 - 2011-11-23 01:48:09 UTC
The Naga is dead to me, and I lost all excitement I had when playing with it on SiSi before the Torp removal.

Hello Tornado.
Netsuj
State War Academy
Caldari State
#130 - 2011-11-23 04:59:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Netsuj
Woohoo so we get a new Caldari ship that shoots........guns.....All I hear is that "Oh look you can jam" Caldari have great missile skills! For what.....Another huge miss from CCP. We have A ship, the Drake, that does decently in PVP but even that is a single fit the only one with missiles. Give me a free respec to guns.

Excitement zero for new naga
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#131 - 2011-11-23 16:35:09 UTC
Netsuj wrote:
Woohoo so we get a new Caldari ship that shoots........guns.....All I hear is that "Oh look you can jam" Caldari have great missile skills! For what.....Another huge miss from CCP. We have A ship, the Drake, that does decently in PVP but even that is a single fit the only one with missiles. Give me a free respec to guns.

Excitement zero for new naga


Roll

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Lili Lu
#132 - 2011-11-23 17:01:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Lili Lu
Oh wow, Christmas and I just got a new toy!

Whaaaaaaaa! I don't have the tools to put my toy together, and Jimmy's toy is better !! Cry





Love this thread. Lol
Naomi Knight
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#133 - 2011-11-23 17:26:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Naomi Knight
Increase base speed , lower signature , there is absolutly no reason why it should be slower/bigger than the others.

Oh and give more pg/cpu.
Adonlude
Akavhi Guard
Fraternity.
#134 - 2011-11-23 18:09:48 UTC
I'll be getting a Naga. I went against the grain with my training. Im pure caldari with all t2 hybrids and only marginal missile skills.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#135 - 2011-11-23 18:12:38 UTC
Naomi Knight wrote:
Increase base speed , lower signature , there is absolutly no reason why it should be slower/bigger than the others.

Oh and give more pg/cpu.


What fit do you believe should fit but doesn't?

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Maroxus
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#136 - 2011-11-23 19:21:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Maroxus
Before Naga:

Non Faction:

Number of Caldari Turret ships: 10
Number of Caldari Missile ships: 14
Number of Caldari ECM ships: 7
Number of Caldari scout ships with Missile bonus: 2

Number of Caldari Faction Missile ships: 5
Number of Caldari Faction Turret ships: 0 Ugh

Ibis included in Turret line up, hey it has a bonus. The Heron/Buzzard would add another 2 to the 14 Missile line up. Falcon goes into Turret and Rook goes into Missile, both are in ECM. None of the T1 ECM ships have a weapon bonus. Both of the T2 battleships are Missile, WTF? The Phoenix and Leviathan adds another 2 to Missiles if you want to include capitals.

To me the Naga is a good addition to strengthen Caldari's hybrid line up after the Faction missile ships *glares at Navy scorp and osprey* While Minmatar whine about split weapons, Caldari has a split ship line up divided by Missiles, Hybrids, and ECM Ugh

Why are most new Caldari pilots grow into Missiles? I blame the Merlin and Missile's easy use in missions. New players may end up picking the kestrel since the Merlin is split with 2 turrets and 2 launcher slots. Thus they end up skipping the cormorant, getting into the caracal, and so on ...
Jennifer Starling
Imperial Navy Forum Patrol
#137 - 2011-11-23 20:35:52 UTC
Maroxus wrote:
Why are most new Caldari pilots grow into Missiles? I blame the Merlin and Missile's easy use in missions. New players may end up picking the kestrel since the Merlin is split with 2 turrets and 2 launcher slots. Thus they end up skipping the cormorant, getting into the caracal, and so on ...

Indeed, splits weapon systems is everything but newb friendly.
My path was Kestrel --> Drake --> Tengu.

Add to that the horrible reputation of hybrid ships and the extreme ugliness of the Moa.
m0cking bird
Doomheim
#138 - 2011-11-23 20:51:10 UTC
The ****** is good @ the moment. Think it's unfortunate missile users were not able to change things, but maybe next time (keep fighting!). The ship is in line with the Tornado. Minus damage selection. Fitting is not a serious issue and the ****** is very mobile, just like most tier 3 battle-cruisers.

Groups of these are in fact very deadly. I'm not sure how many have done fleet engagements of ****** (blasters) versus Tornado's (autocannons), but there is no clear winner. Often a up to target switching, logistics and mobility.

However, shield Oracal's are very hard to deal with. It would take alpha to engage them. Even with one shield extender and invulnerability field. The ship has more than enough hit-points and resistance to be repaired. Once you take Optimal into account. Damage application is insane! Capacitor is the only limit and maybe hit-points, but like I said. I saw no issue with hit-points, when logistics are on the field.

Shield blaster Talos. Has the range, to be useful in small engagements, but not on the same level as the ******, Oracal and Tornado.

These ships are designed for fleets and the only one that falls noticeable short is the Talos.
Katabrok First
Apukaray Security
#139 - 2011-11-23 21:02:25 UTC
Oh you new boys and girls. My path was: Ibis, condor, merlin, cormorant, osprey, caracal, moa, ferox and then raven, all of it fefore the introduction of Tier 3 BS. When I learned about the coming of the Rokh, I trained T2 rails and blasters beforehand. And I was happy. Better completion times than using that fat raven, and a funnier ship to fly. I only walked away from it because it doesn't have a damage bonus. But even without the damage bonus, my friends who flew ravens at the time were impressed with how fast I could kill stuff in missions. Even without a damage bonus.
It took me almost 6 months to be able to buy my first battleship, and I used it with cruise missile and 425 rails.

Man, I'm talking like and old man... I even forgot what was the point I was trying to make...

Well, the Naga is here to stay. Fly it or keep the drake. It's simple.
Jennifer Starling
Imperial Navy Forum Patrol
#140 - 2011-11-25 12:45:40 UTC
Katabrok First wrote:
Well, the Naga is here to stay. Fly it or keep the drake. It's simple.

Then Tornado and Oracle it is.

Oh well ....