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Is the Naga dead to you, or are you still excited for it?

Author
Xiozor
State War Academy
Caldari State
#161 - 2011-11-28 23:45:12 UTC
Do you remember when the Abaddon/Hyperion/Rokh/Maelstrom was released?

"Captain, sensors indicate a high level of deja vu coming from this thread."

I would have really, really loved for them to have released a shield tanking ship with a fat signature radius, 20k EHP that does 1000dps into the current metagame.

It would have been followed by a huge influx of "WAHHH NAGA IS BAD FOR LEVEL 4 MISSIONS!!!" and "WAHHH, NAGA FAILS BECAUSE FLYING IN PULSE RANGE IN A GLASS CANNON IS A BAD IDEA!!!"
Shivus Tao
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#162 - 2011-11-28 23:53:02 UTC
ITT bads complain about naga losing torps because they can't play with guns.
Xerxikc
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#163 - 2011-11-29 00:31:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Xerxikc
I was kinda hoping theyd make the naga cruise missile boat with good bonuses as cruise missiles arent really represented well and i have it well trained but alas its another rail boat. I already have a Rokh so got really turned off by them putting rails on that as well. Why cant we get something good for a change?

P.S: Also im so sick of seeing drakes it would have been nice to see something else with missiles for a change.
Shivus Tao
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#164 - 2011-11-29 00:35:08 UTC
Cruise missiles aren't represented well because they're terrible. Adding a dedicated cruise missile ship won't change that.
Xerxikc
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#165 - 2011-11-29 00:39:01 UTC
They are terrible because they dont have a good ship for them , this would have been an opportunity to make one which they failed to do. Something Interesting and different.
Shivus Tao
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#166 - 2011-11-29 00:49:00 UTC
They're terrible because their entire strength is their obscene range, yet it takes near 30 seconds for them to reach targets at that range. When the only way to fix a missile is to give a ship penalties to missile flight time and massive bonuses to missile velocity that's a problem with the missile design. And it's not like anyone engages at ranges where cruise missiles could be exploited anymore. Extreme damage at the cost of range is viable as it's comparatively easier to get a warp in, or close the gap in small gang pvp than it is to will your cruise missiles to fly faster, meanwhile in large fleets, maelstroms and artybaddons are laying into the missile ships, killing them long before their first salvo even hits.
Izida
EVE-EX Express Courier Service
#167 - 2011-11-29 01:02:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Izida
Im somewhat confused as well why they make tornado so good and Naga so bad. That said I got tech 2 rails trained but was hoping to be able to fly something other than Scorp with cruise missiles, so very dissapointed. Does anyone have a link to where devs said why they decided to make rokh mkII ?
Lili Lu
#168 - 2011-11-29 01:11:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Lili Lu
ZephyrLexx wrote:
Cromartie McCaal wrote:
DAMN IT CCP! just fix it already! why you gotta KEEP crippling caldari, huh? i was all excited about torps on BC but then you switched to to railgun platform, i said, "ok you guys said you were fixing hybrids on expansion, so we'll see". so far YOU ARENT FIXING hybrids. youre still making the SAME MISTAKES. the reason the Naga would have been great is because you COULD fit a decent tank on it with DECENT damage from torps and DECENT speed (1km+/s) BUT NO, now its railgun platform, FORGET cap stability. you wont get the damage you want, the speed you want, the tank you want. compared to the other races, once again, caldari is falling short to those 3 specific areas. if the naga isnt going to be an EWAR platform, WHICH IS THE ONLY ADVANTAGE CALDARI HAS OVER OTHER RACES, then its another useless ship in the caldari fleet. WAY TO GO CCP, THE EFFING FAIL NEVER CEASES.



FFS BALANCE the ****ING GAME!


despite the caps lock this man speaks the truth. why you gotta hate on caldari CCP?


You know it's comments like these in this thread that make a lot of us laugh. Gypsio III is a Cadari booster. I usually butt heads with those, but he's an intelligent, competent, and respected one. He and others are telling you to stop whining. Listen to him.

Look at the molds that were broken. You got a damage bonus on hybrids! You got a gunship that is not split weapons (ok there is the Ferox but still)! You effectively got two damage bonuses. The range bonus makes your anti-matter reach out farther.

Really, all these ships are basically going to be cheap, weak hulled, quick strike and warp out harassment. They are not meant to tank and engage in a slug fest in any meaningful way. People are telling you, you would not want to be using torps on these things within AC falloff or pulse oiptimal. Also, too many of you I think are trying to construct one-on-ones between these ships and finding the Tornado to beat all. So what, solo duals are really rare in this game. You got a Caldari fleet ship in line with the others in class. Tornados and Nagas both shield tank, and the Talos can shield tank. If any of them is left out imo it's the Oracle with only 3 mids.

Tbh, I would not fly these things except for the Talos. Why? Talos got a drone bay. But it is amazing how many threads there are on the Naga. Nowhere near as many probably adding up all the threads on the other 3 ships.

You remind me of when I was a noob. I used to say that CCP hated Amarr (Amarr did suck back then, but I was wrong as to ascribing intent). CCP does not hate Caldari. You are a 3 yr old character. Have you not crosstrained any other race? Don't identify so much with one race in this game.

edit- and someone else already pointed out that if you have only trained missiles you are flying missiles, not caldari.
2nd edit- oh and cap stabilityLol You appear to have never flown Amarr. You learn with them to not place such importance on cap stabilty. It is not necessary, even in missions. And, btw, look at the hybrid changes, they use less cap now.
Shivus Tao
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#169 - 2011-11-29 01:23:05 UTC
Izida wrote:
Im somewhat confused as well why they make tornado so good and Naga so bad. That said I got tech 2 rails trained but was hoping to be able to fly something other than Scorp with cruise missiles, so very dissapointed. Does anyone have a link to where devs said why they decided to make rokh mkII ?


The naga is actually better than the rokh because it gets a damage bonus where the rokh does not. The tornado being good at everything can be chalked up to autocannons being good at everything. Rails on the Naga will be very good at ranged damage projection, blasters will be very good at up close up damage. The problem is that autocannons are good at both of those simultaneously. Amarr is good at both in a similar way except they have to use capacitor to shoot.
Izida
EVE-EX Express Courier Service
#170 - 2011-11-29 01:33:27 UTC
Wasnt the problem with Rokh not being seen in any fleets at all is that not only is its damage at range sub par to say aba or maelstrom but the warping on top of people with probes made sniping obsolete? So my thought was isnt it stupid making a new ship for war when the war isnt done at these kind of ranges any more. Otherwise youd actually see lots of rokhs in fleets.
Minas Maxima
#171 - 2011-11-29 03:33:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Minas Maxima
I think these are made for PVP mostly from the start and most people are correct slow flying torps would have been bad in most standoff fights or getting close to those lasers can be painful for a weak tank. But that being said unless they were wondering or worried about mission running melting time with 8 torps I am not sure why they didnt let people keep the torps. Obviously they had a reason for it and I doubt it was to pick on Caldari.

Once you have the gun skills though flying any of these ships is fairly straight forward since Cruise IV is easy enough and BC is non-racial skill. I have not seen the requirements but I would assume it is the same for other BC's.

Then again maybe the Naga can stand to run some missions and do it well, not Mach well or Tengu but at least a change and hopefully cheap enough as a hull to get out and do some other fun stuff. I am sure they will be expensive at first but hopefully not much more than their brothers in a month or so. Cheap guns cheap mods go out and blast something under a 100 million in cost would be cool. Getting Large IV is not hard and will get most pilots into a decent dps ship of course T2 will be the ultimate goal I would think. Of course I already have the gun skills so not a big issue with me but I can understand the dissapoint at having to train it all up if you don't. However that being said by the time the cost balances out most could have most of their gun skills working out if not max.

Guns are fun but unfortunately Hybrids don't really seem to be buffed that much but we shall see, I am 1 day from Med Arty Spec IV then the long drive to Large Projectile V which is the longest but I started training not very long ago. 12 days for Med Projectile and 6 or 8 for Small then about a week to Spec in both to IV. Anyway I am rambling but it is not as horrible as it seems if you can just train it and not worry over it. Now thankfully I was lucky to have been an Eagle pilot so all the support gun skills are already maxxed they can take a long time to get worked out. 3 to 6 months to be a really good gunner, training nothing but guns. As most already know guns have two branches Hybrid is Blaster/Rails and that is twice the cost to fly both. For many Caldari starting out that is a hell of a lot of training for something that may or may not pan out. It will be less painful for the older pilots who have great missile boat skills but a new pilot flying Caldari will be shocked at the time involvement for a single ship of the fleet when it takes away all that training in shield/missile etc.
DarkJacena
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#172 - 2011-11-29 22:19:25 UTC
Not to brag (lol) But I'm currently Caldari and have had hybrids training for awhile in hopes of a buff. Now I also have a ship that works perfectly with them. Thank you CCP! =)
Joneleth Rein
#173 - 2011-11-30 00:50:04 UTC
I'd say it feels weird. TBH I wanted the torps but this does't feel half-bad either. And mind you I'm a gallente that switched to flying caldari ships. Not that much of a hassle for me anyway.

Spider Pig! Spider Pig! Does what a Spider Pig does.. Can he swing? From a web.. No he can't. He's a pig.

zendalit
Doomheim
#174 - 2011-11-30 01:46:34 UTC
naga=very nice looking, sniper boat with some maneuverability! Cant understand what the problem is....A BC with large turrets, designed to snipe from afar?

Do you seriously need another missle boat? I can understand if you dont want to train a new skill and you are upset that u cant make use of a shiny new toy but seriously, stop being selfish and appreciate the naga for what it is.

And for what it is designed for its going to do that really well. As some have mentioned it might just be the best in the game at sniping.

Anywho great ship, looks like fun.
Atomic Punx
State War Academy
Caldari State
#175 - 2011-11-30 06:44:36 UTC
Written Word wrote:
Renan Ruivo wrote:
Written Word wrote:
Renan Ruivo wrote:
As it is right now the Naga can put out the same amount of DPS the Rokh can, with less mags. And nearly as far as the Rokh as well.

Oh, and its a RAIL platform. The talos, afaik, is a BLASTER platform.


Because the Rokh is the DPS yardstick that all of EVE compares itself too. Right?

Right?

Roll


So you would say that would it be perfectly fine for me to compare the Naga with the Maelstrom?


Saying its almost as good as one of the worst DPS dealing battleships in the game isn't a point in the favor.

The Rokh is a terrible ship, and having a pocket sized one of those won't make it anything in this game better. The hybrid Naga won't deal the damage of the Talos, it won't have the damage projection of the Oracle/Tornado. If you are feeling stupid, I suppose you could try sniping in it, but with the lowest alpha and the current state of scan probing, do you really think this is a good idea?

With torps, you could have gotten a massive gank platform with decent range and changeable damage types. Easily the best anti-capital one of the bunch.


Agreed! As it stands to date Torpedo's have no ship to claim as its cream of the crop! This truly is disappointing!
Berendas
EVE University
Ivy League
#176 - 2011-11-30 06:47:05 UTC
zendalit wrote:
naga=very nice looking, sniper boat with some maneuverability! Cant understand what the problem is....A BC with large turrets, designed to snipe from afar?

Do you seriously need another missle boat? I can understand if you dont want to train a new skill and you are upset that u cant make use of a shiny new toy but seriously, stop being selfish and appreciate the naga for what it is.

And for what it is designed for its going to do that really well. As some have mentioned it might just be the best in the game at sniping.

Anywho great ship, looks like fun.



This tbh. Caldari players whine that their ships can't do enough in PVP. CCP gives them a viable sniping platform and they cry because it isn't another missile spammer Roll
Quinc4623
Space Explorers Federation
#177 - 2011-11-30 06:52:40 UTC
This is funny, some people claiming it's horrible, others saying it's the best sniper evar! I definetely have to side with the second group though. The real objection seems to be to having to use hybrid weapons. However if the recent hybrid boost proves sufficient all these complaints will be moot. 700 DPS at over 100 KM you say? Yes that sounds pretty impressive frankly. Considering that all four Tier 3 BCs are faster than any other BC or BS this will be the ultimate ship for kiting. Avoid anything smaller than a cruiser and you'll have absolute control over the fighting range and be dealing decent damage the entire time. If you're worried about getting probed out, either stay aligned to something, or orbit at exactly 100km.

Obviously if hybrids continue to suck, hybrid boats will suck too, but that's why CCP is finally revising the hybrids. Hopefully they will take a third and fourth look at balance over the coming months. Without viable hybrid weapons, Caldari missile ships came to the fore-front. Even with the Gallente I usually hear discussions about Mymidons and Dominix. People of course associate the Caldari with missiles since they have the only dedicated missile ships in multiple categories, and again, the Hybrid ships have been nearly pointless for the last few years. So yeah, it all comes down to the new balance CCP strikes with the hybrids, let's hope they get it right.
Real Poison
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#178 - 2011-11-30 07:42:32 UTC
No offence to the player who designed the naga model.

But as a BC the naga is by far the most butt-ugliest of the pack.

would've worked as an ORE specialized ICE-Miner/Hauler or s.th. like that.

Engineer: "hey lets make this ships signature radius as huge as possible by putting giant walls left and right so everyone can hit us better!"
Vrykolakasis
Sparrowhawks Corp
#179 - 2011-11-30 07:43:22 UTC
I just found out the Naga didn't have any missile slots - the first thought through my head was that my client was malfunctioning and I would need to petition it.

I find it completely absurd that the missiles were cut from the design, and I find it equally absurd that people are defending the choice. Yes, the Naga should be a valuable sniper ship, like it is, but it should also have some versatility, like the original design. A versatile ship isn't overpowered... it's just versatile. You can't be a sniper and a torpedo spammer at the same time, but you should be able to choose which one you are. That was one of the reasons the Naga was *going* to be so cool... you had options.

I think CCP should balance their decision on this one... listen, a little, to the players who want to keep it the way it is. Then listen to the players who want to change it to have missile slots as well. Then grow some freaking brains and give it missile slots.

I usually don't get so angry about dev decisions, but this is ridiculous.
Onictus
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#180 - 2011-11-30 07:52:24 UTC
Vrykolakasis wrote:
I just found out the Naga didn't have any missile slots - the first thought through my head was that my client was malfunctioning and I would need to petition it.

I find it completely absurd that the missiles were cut from the design, and I find it equally absurd that people are defending the choice. Yes, the Naga should be a valuable sniper ship, like it is, but it should also have some versatility, like the original design. A versatile ship isn't overpowered... it's just versatile. You can't be a sniper and a torpedo spammer at the same time, but you should be able to choose which one you are. That was one of the reasons the Naga was *going* to be so cool... you had options.

I think CCP should balance their decision on this one... listen, a little, to the players who want to keep it the way it is. Then listen to the players who want to change it to have missile slots as well. Then grow some freaking brains and give it missile slots.

I usually don't get so angry about dev decisions, but this is ridiculous.



You were seriously excited to bring a ship with 25k eHP into TORP range?

Fly around a HAM/nano drake for a while with an empty mid-slot and see how that goes, I imagine it would be roughly the same experience.