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High Sec Hauling/Mining Kills - TY CCP for No Protection

First post First post
Author
Syn Shi
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#261 - 2014-08-28 22:36:37 UTC
There is no risk to gank in hi-sec. The ships they use are so cheap and easy to replace the whole risk thing has been circumvented.

Ship blows up, so what...just buy another.

Everyone knows your name, no probelm just buy another character.

The game is so saturated with isk that isk has removed the risk factor.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#262 - 2014-08-28 22:41:21 UTC
Syn Shi wrote:
There is no risk to gank in hi-sec. The ships they use are so cheap and easy to replace the whole risk thing has been circumvented.

Ship blows up, so what...just buy another.

Everyone knows your name, no probelm just buy another character.

The game is so saturated with isk that isk has removed the risk factor.


This guy has it all figured out, but what is it that he has figured out? Certainly not suicide ganking.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.

Cancel Align NOW
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#263 - 2014-08-28 22:42:48 UTC
Syn Shi wrote:
There is no risk to gank in hi-sec. The ships they use are so cheap and easy to replace the whole risk thing has been circumvented.

Ship blows up, so what...just buy another.

Everyone knows your name, no probelm just buy another character.

The game is so saturated with isk that isk has removed the risk factor.


If the game is so saturated with isk why mine? certainly not to make isk...
Solecist Project
#264 - 2014-08-28 22:44:58 UTC
Cancel Align NOW wrote:
Syn Shi wrote:
There is no risk to gank in hi-sec. The ships they use are so cheap and easy to replace the whole risk thing has been circumvented.

Ship blows up, so what...just buy another.

Everyone knows your name, no probelm just buy another character.

The game is so saturated with isk that isk has removed the risk factor.


If the game is so saturated with isk why mine? certainly not to make isk...
You fail at logic.

People mine afk to make ISK while doing other things.

People either do not want to play to make ISK,
or do not want to put effort into it to make ISK,
or they lack time to actively play to make ISK.


Is it really that hard? -.-

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#265 - 2014-08-28 22:47:51 UTC
Miners are literally space bums.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.

Ned Thomas
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#266 - 2014-08-28 22:51:53 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Miners are literally space bums.


I prefer the term "urban outdoorsman". Makes me sound active.
Solecist Project
#267 - 2014-08-28 22:52:35 UTC
Ned Thomas wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Miners are literally space bums.


I prefer the term "urban outdoorsman". Makes me sound active.

And is a lie.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#268 - 2014-08-28 22:53:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Angeal MacNova wrote:
So here is the list.
Keep your ships aligned so that the moment someone tries to lock you, you insta warp. Unfortunately you will eventually move out of range of the rocks so this isn't viable.
Have safe spots bookmarked so you can always stay in range on the rocks. It's not hard.
Angeal MacNova wrote:
You can warp off the moment a potential ganker (just because someone warps in doesn't mean they are a ganker) warps in and hope to warp off before they finish falling out of warp. However, now the gankers don't even have to gank to stop you from mining. They just have to camp belts.
Gankers don't just sit in belts to stop you from mining. They want kill which they aren't going to get if they just sit around.
Angeal MacNova wrote:
DScan is meaningless in hi-sec.
Pfft, haha, no.
Angeal MacNova wrote:
So at what point is not being AFK suppose to protect you from being ganked?
Directional Scanner & being aligned is your friend.
Fortunately for gankers, some players consider taking any steps at all to protect their space-canoes is entirely too much effort.

Unfortunately for everybody, the effort they should have expended in protecting their ships is channelled into whining on the forums about how unfair it is that they get ganked because of their ingame apathy and incompetence.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Ned Thomas
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#269 - 2014-08-28 22:54:13 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
Ned Thomas wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Miners are literally space bums.


I prefer the term "urban outdoorsman". Makes me sound active.

And is a lie.


I'm ok with lying to myself. I'm the only one who believes me anyway Big smile
Cancel Align NOW
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#270 - 2014-08-28 23:10:28 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
Cancel Align NOW wrote:
Syn Shi wrote:
There is no risk to gank in hi-sec. The ships they use are so cheap and easy to replace the whole risk thing has been circumvented.

Ship blows up, so what...just buy another.

Everyone knows your name, no probelm just buy another character.

The game is so saturated with isk that isk has removed the risk factor.


If the game is so saturated with isk why mine? certainly not to make isk...
You fail at logic.

People mine afk to make ISK while doing other things.

People either do not want to play to make ISK,
or do not want to put effort into it to make ISK,
or they lack time to actively play to make ISK.


Is it really that hard? -.-


This thread is about the lack of defences available to high sec pilots. CCP Falcon has responded saying use the defences available. Syn Shi attempts to derail the thread (probably unintentionally) by repeating an oft heard argument that ganking is easy because of unlimited isk in game. I mock him. You attempt to defend AFK isk making in a thread about about the defences available to high sec miners and haulers. You claim I fail at logic. Context is useful.

If anyone wants to play Eve Online AFK that is their prerogative,with the views put forward in this very thread by CCP Falcon, I think there will be little on offer to help bolster their defences. As far as I am concerned - if you do anything AFK in Eve Online you are solely responsible for what happens to your hull, it's fittings and your pod.
Zero Sum Gain
FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEDOOOOOOOOM
#271 - 2014-08-28 23:35:21 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Miners are literally space bums.


Clearly you haven't seen the movie There Will Be Blood.
Angeal MacNova
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#272 - 2014-08-28 23:35:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Angeal MacNova
Tippia wrote:
…except that it's entirely viable since there's nothing that requires you to mine the same rock for 45 minutes. Belts are large enough to let you keep going and never run out of range to the rocks. And that's before we even go into the various tricks that lowers your align speed…


Except that to insta warp you need to be aligned and up to 3/4 speed. You'll be out of range of the rocks in 5 minutes tops.

WRT the underlined, it's blatantly clear you've never mined in hi-sec.

Quote:
…which doesn't stop you from mining. If they camp a belt, it means that you are now completely free to mine your head off since the gankers are occupied doing nothing.


Oh wow, I was going to reply to each one until this statement. The sheer level of stupidity that your statement has is incomprehensible.

So I'll move on to other posters.

Let's see, there is the "it would be lost on you" comment. That simply translates into "I haven't a clue myself so I can't explain it to you".

The point is you don't know a gank is coming until they are landing on grid and by then it's too late. Miners are already doing the best option available. Tanked out skiffs. It has even resulted in a few "nerf skiffs" whine threads. If using D-scan kept miners from being ganked, then there wouldn't be a need to run skiff fleets. They would simply use hulk fleets and rely on D-scan.


You can say D-scan all you want but until you can explain it's use and how it prevents you from being ganked while mining in hi-sec, D-scan is evidently useless (I say "evidently" due to the fact that if it was as useful as claimed, see comment above about the lack of hulk fleets using D-scan).

http://www.projectvaulderie.com/goodnight-sweet-prince/

http://www.projectvaulderie.com/the-untold-story/

CCP's true, butthurt, colors.

Because those who can't do themselves keep others from doing too.

Angeal MacNova
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#273 - 2014-08-28 23:36:23 UTC
Zero Sum Gain wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Miners are literally space bums.


Clearly you haven't seen the movie There Will Be Blood.


How about hobo with a shotgun

http://www.projectvaulderie.com/goodnight-sweet-prince/

http://www.projectvaulderie.com/the-untold-story/

CCP's true, butthurt, colors.

Because those who can't do themselves keep others from doing too.

Syn Shi
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#274 - 2014-08-28 23:48:47 UTC
Cancel Align NOW wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:
Cancel Align NOW wrote:
Syn Shi wrote:
There is no risk to gank in hi-sec. The ships they use are so cheap and easy to replace the whole risk thing has been circumvented.

Ship blows up, so what...just buy another.

Everyone knows your name, no probelm just buy another character.

The game is so saturated with isk that isk has removed the risk factor.


If the game is so saturated with isk why mine? certainly not to make isk...
You fail at logic.

People mine afk to make ISK while doing other things.

People either do not want to play to make ISK,
or do not want to put effort into it to make ISK,
or they lack time to actively play to make ISK.


Is it really that hard? -.-


This thread is about the lack of defences available to high sec pilots. CCP Falcon has responded saying use the defences available. Syn Shi attempts to derail the thread (probably unintentionally) by repeating an oft heard argument that ganking is easy because of unlimited isk in game. I mock him. You attempt to defend AFK isk making in a thread about about the defences available to high sec miners and haulers. You claim I fail at logic. Context is useful.

If anyone wants to play Eve Online AFK that is their prerogative,with the views put forward in this very thread by CCP Falcon, I think there will be little on offer to help bolster their defences. As far as I am concerned - if you do anything AFK in Eve Online you are solely responsible for what happens to your hull, it's fittings and your pod.


Never once mentioned afk mining...but if it makes you feel better feel free to make stuff up I said.

My post was nothing more than stating a fact. Its easy and cheap to gank there. So what if Concord shows up. Just buy another ship.

Oh ya, just hire somebody to protect you......derp. If that was a viable option it would be happening...guess what...it doesn't.

Just replace the ship. Ships are easy to come by.

Want to add risk back in, reduce the access to ships. Then someone may think twice about doing something if they will have a hard time replacing it.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#275 - 2014-08-29 00:05:24 UTC
Angeal MacNova wrote:
Except that to insta warp you need to be aligned and up to 3/4 speed. You'll be out of range of the rocks in 5 minutes tops.
Have you tried… you know… attaching mining lasers of some kind rather than just lean out of the window and use a hammer and chisel? Those lasers will give you a 30km zone of activity around any rock. The belt as a whole has a an operative range of ~150km. Even if you do nothing to lower your max speed, that's 30 minutes of uninterrupted mining right there, and then we come to the fact that you can trivially have a setup where you travel at ~33m/s and still be aligned. Having mined in highsec, I know this works because I have actually tried it rather than dismissed it out of hand due to a desperate ignorance of game mechanics.

WRT the underlined, it's blatantly clear that you don't understand how warping works. It's entirely redundant; the one directly implies the other.

Quote:
Oh wow, I was going to reply to each one until this statement. The sheer level of stupidity that your statement has is incomprehensible.
You don't understand that if the miners are camping a belt, they are in that belt? Are you sure you want to go with that sheer level of stupidity? Congratulations. You have just earned a life-time disqualification from discussing anything EVE related because you are so utterly and completely unfamiliar with the game that you don't even understand that you cannot be in two places at once! GTFO. Shocked

Quote:
The point is you don't know a gank is coming until they are landing on grid and by then it's too late.
No, the point is that if you don't look, you don't know a gank is coming. You can look, you know… dscan helps you with the “looking” part of the equation, and it lets you see things long before they arrive on grid — it's kind of the whole point of dscan. Again, your ignorance of all things EVE is tripping you up here.

Quote:
Miners are already doing the best option available.
Apparently not, since they keep thinking that they need more tools at their disposal without even making use of the ones they already have.
Angeal MacNova
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#276 - 2014-08-29 00:05:48 UTC
Syn Shi wrote:


Never once mentioned afk mining...but if it makes you feel better feel free to make stuff up I said.

My post was nothing more than stating a fact. Its easy and cheap to gank there. So what if Concord shows up. Just buy another ship.

Oh ya, just hire somebody to protect you......derp. If that was a viable option it would be happening...guess what...it doesn't.

Just replace the ship. Ships are easy to come by.

Want to add risk back in, reduce the access to ships. Then someone may think twice about doing something if they will have a hard time replacing it.


Seriously though. Don't you just love how these people throw in all kinds of suggestions for miners to "avoid ganking" and then say that miners are stupid for not following their advice.

It never once clued in to them that miners have tried their advice and guess what? It didn't work.

Miners are already doing the best option available to them. Fleets of tanked out skiffs.

http://www.projectvaulderie.com/goodnight-sweet-prince/

http://www.projectvaulderie.com/the-untold-story/

CCP's true, butthurt, colors.

Because those who can't do themselves keep others from doing too.

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#277 - 2014-08-29 00:07:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Angeal MacNova wrote:
Tippia wrote:
…except that it's entirely viable since there's nothing that requires you to mine the same rock for 45 minutes. Belts are large enough to let you keep going and never run out of range to the rocks. And that's before we even go into the various tricks that lowers your align speed…

Except that to insta warp you need to be aligned and up to 3/4 speed. You'll be out of range of the rocks in 5 minutes tops.

WRT the underlined, it's blatantly clear you've never mined in hi-sec.

Quote:
Tippia wrote:
…which doesn't stop you from mining. If they camp a belt, it means that you are now completely free to mine your head off since the gankers are occupied doing nothing.
Oh wow, I was going to reply to each one until this statement. The sheer level of stupidity that your statement has is incomprehensible.
Your ignorance is astounding, it's pretty easy to mine and be aligned, and moving at a speed that'll get you into warp quickly. It's called aligning to bookmarks and celestials, and switching between them when you're getting close to being out of range of whatever you're mining. If you have friends in the belt with you, use webs on each other to reduce the speed required to get into warp. RubyPorto even provided a Mackinaw fit that does exactly that for others.

If gankers camp a belt, which they don't, you mine elsewhere... Simples.
The only person showing incomprehensible stupidity is you.

Quote:
The point is you don't know a gank is coming until they are landing on grid and by then it's too late. Miners are already doing the best option available. Tanked out skiffs. It has even resulted in a few "nerf skiffs" whine threads. If using D-scan kept miners from being ganked, then there wouldn't be a need to run skiff fleets. They would simply use hulk fleets and rely on D-scan.

You can say D-scan all you want but until you can explain it's use and how it prevents you from being ganked while mining in hi-sec, D-scan is evidently useless (I say "evidently" due to the fact that if it was as useful as claimed, see comment above about the lack of hulk fleets using D-scan).
Several posters, many of whom know a great deal more about game mechanics, and ganking, than yourself have explained, in detail, how you can use DScan and other intel sources to mitigate the risk of being ganked.

With reference to hulks, to be blunt they're shite without Orca Support, they're also expensive and look great on killboards. The current increase in the use of Skiffs is because people can't be arsed to use and act upon the information that is available to them, The current thinking appears to be "a Skiff is hard to kill, why bother with DScan"

Edit ~ With reference to the post above this. I mine, it's a necessary evil sometimes, I've never been ganked while doing so. One of the reasons I've never been ganked is because I do use DScan, I do use the standings mechanics, I do watch local, I do know who the gankers are, and I'm usually disappearing into the distance, or already gone when the gankers show up at my location.

TL;DR I actually make an effort to avoid being ganked.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Angeal MacNova
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#278 - 2014-08-29 00:28:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Angeal MacNova
Tippia wrote:
Angeal MacNova wrote:
Except that to insta warp you need to be aligned and up to 3/4 speed. You'll be out of range of the rocks in 5 minutes tops.
Have you tried… you know… attaching mining lasers of some kind rather than just lean out of the window and use a hammer and chisel? Those lasers will give you a 30km zone of activity around any rock. The belt as a whole has a an operative range of ~150km. Even if you do nothing to lower your max speed, that's 30 minutes of uninterrupted mining right there, and then we come to the fact that you can trivially have a setup where you travel at ~33m/s and still be aligned. Having mined in highsec, I know this works because I have actually tried it rather than dismissed it out of hand due to a desperate ignorance of game mechanics.

WRT the underlined, it's blatantly clear that you don't understand how warping works. It's entirely redundant; the one directly implies the other.


What you propose would require too many things and it still wouldn't be as effective as what miners do now. Tanked skiffs.

1. Your alignment would have to take you across the belt. Doable with a safe spot because you won't always have something to warp to that will take you across the belt.

2. You will have to be constantly switching from rock to rock. You compare strip miner range to the belt as a whole when you should be comparing it to individual rocks.

3. Because you will not be in range to mine each rock before they get out of range, you'll have to turn round. You'd be lucky to do this in 2 runs meaning you would need two bookmarks (one for each direction) which isn't hard but a competent ganker will warp in as you turn around meaning you won't be aligned to either bookmark.

Also, why isn't it that you see mining fleets doing this? Because it doesn't work. If it worked, then you would see hulk fleets doing this instead of skiff fleets not doing this. So go ahead and tell me all about how you've done this marvelous "defense" with great success. Roll

Quote:
You don't understand that if the miners are camping a belt, they are in that belt? Are you sure you want to go with that sheer level of stupidity? Congratulations. You have just earned a life-time disqualification from discussing anything EVE related because you are so utterly and completely unfamiliar with the game that you don't even understand that you cannot be in two places at once! GTFO. Shocked


See comment below.

Quote:
No, the point is that if you don't look, you don't know a gank is coming. You can look, you know… dscan helps you with the “looking” part of the equation, and it lets you see things long before they arrive on grid — it's kind of the whole point of dscan. Again, your ignorance of all things EVE is tripping you up here.


Look at what? All the neutrals within 14 au in hi-sec? I've yet to see anyone explain the use of d-scan as a way of catching gankers before they land on grid. Someone ganks you so you mark them red. Great, you know when a ganker is in system. They'll also show up on overview but by then it's too late. D-scan only tells you ship name (which can be anything and can be changed) and ship class (which doesn't equate to ganker). So how do you identify a ganker on D-scan?

Quote:
Apparently not, since they keep thinking that they need more tools at their disposal without even making use of the ones they already have.


It's called they are doing the best option available but even the best option doesn't stop ganking completely and that's what they are looking for. I was able to grasp that simple concept and yet you couldn't. Clearly the ignorant one is you.

http://www.projectvaulderie.com/goodnight-sweet-prince/

http://www.projectvaulderie.com/the-untold-story/

CCP's true, butthurt, colors.

Because those who can't do themselves keep others from doing too.

Angeal MacNova
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#279 - 2014-08-29 00:31:07 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Several posters, many of whom know a great deal more about game mechanics, and ganking, than yourself have explained, in detail, how you can use DScan


Sorry but, use D-scanner and watch for gankers isn't an explanation at all. How do you recognize a ganker on d-scan in hi-sec?

http://www.projectvaulderie.com/goodnight-sweet-prince/

http://www.projectvaulderie.com/the-untold-story/

CCP's true, butthurt, colors.

Because those who can't do themselves keep others from doing too.

Cancel Align NOW
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#280 - 2014-08-29 00:31:30 UTC
Quote:



Syn Shi attempts to derail the thread (probably unintentionally) by repeating an oft heard argument that ganking is easy because of unlimited isk in game. I mock him.



Syn Shi wrote:


Never once mentioned afk mining...but if it makes you feel better feel free to make stuff up I said.



Reading comprehension. I never said you said anything about AFK mining....