These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

High Sec Hauling/Mining Kills - TY CCP for No Protection

First post First post
Author
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
#881 - 2014-09-01 00:38:42 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them. As always I let some edge cases stay.
Please people, keep it on topic and above all civil!

The Rules:
4. Personal attacks are prohibited.

Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not beneficial to the community spirit that CCP promote and as such they will not be tolerated.


5. Trolling is prohibited.

Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote.


26. Off-topic posting is prohibited.

Off-topic posting is permitted within reason, as sometimes a single comment may color or lighten the tone of discussion. However, excessive posting of off-topic remarks in an attempt to derail a thread may result in the thread being locked, or a forum warning being issued.




By posting this I inadvertently bump this rather large thread back to the top of the front page, as to not let it warp off to the abyss of forgotten threads. Thread re-opened.

ISD Ezwal Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Ashiri Hareka
Paper Cats
#882 - 2014-09-01 01:33:17 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:

Eve is not a game for the faint hearted. It's a game that will chew you up and spit you out in the blink of an eye if you even think about letting your guard down or becoming complacent.

While every other MMO starts off with an intro that tells you you're going to be the savior of the realm, holds your hand, protects you, nurtures your development and ultimately guides you to your destiny as a hero along with several other million players who've had the exact same experience, EVE assaults you from the second you begin to play after you create a character, spitting you out into a universe that under the surface, is so complex that it's enough to make your head explode.

Welcome to the most frightening virtual playground you'll ever experience.


That is what I like about this game. One's destiny is up to one's self, not dependent on some story that one is forced to follow.
What I fail to understand is why some people, even after you've explained all this, still want their hand held.
Matrea D
Maggie's Magical Miners
Maggie's Magical Malliance
#883 - 2014-09-01 01:41:05 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:

Bumpers are preventing the gank victim from leaving the system with the clear intent of letting their friends come back and hill him. To have the police sitting there and not intervening is downright insane.


CONCORD doesn't interfere with the initial bumping, but they should interfere during the second bumping?

It's not like CONCORD is there to help people who don't understand game mechanics. "Oh, this pilot doesn't know how to get out of being bumped, we'd better do something about that."

Veers Belvar wrote:
And it's highsec - you don't need to beg friends to protect you from criminals, that's what CONCORD is for. If you don't want that mechanic, go to nullsec.


CONCORD are not your fleet members. They do not replace having fleet support. Stop trying to make it.

Also, please tell me where it says that highsec is where you don't need friends to protect you.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#884 - 2014-09-01 01:48:49 UTC
Ashiri Hareka wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:

Eve is not a game for the faint hearted. It's a game that will chew you up and spit you out in the blink of an eye if you even think about letting your guard down or becoming complacent.

While every other MMO starts off with an intro that tells you you're going to be the savior of the realm, holds your hand, protects you, nurtures your development and ultimately guides you to your destiny as a hero along with several other million players who've had the exact same experience, EVE assaults you from the second you begin to play after you create a character, spitting you out into a universe that under the surface, is so complex that it's enough to make your head explode.

Welcome to the most frightening virtual playground you'll ever experience.


That is what I like about this game. One's destiny is up to one's self, not dependent on some story that one is forced to follow.
What I fail to understand is why some people, even after you've explained all this, still want their hand held.
Likewise, I mostly play the PvE, my PvP is not being the fool who gets ganked.

Sun Tzu wrote:
To know your Enemy, you must become your Enemy*
A wise man indeed, he'd have enjoyed Eve.

*/me dons his forum armour and waits for the inevitable beating that results from quoting The Art of War

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#885 - 2014-09-01 01:58:28 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Sun Tzu wrote:
To know your Enemy, you must become your Enemy*
A wise man indeed, he'd have enjoyed Eve.

*/me dons his forum armour and waits for the inevitable beating that results from quoting The Art of War


[:baton:]

Read a better one.


Veers Belvar wrote:
And it's highsec - you don't need to beg friends to protect you from criminals, that's what CONCORD is for.


Whoever told you this lied.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#886 - 2014-09-01 02:08:21 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Sun Tzu wrote:
To know your Enemy, you must become your Enemy*
A wise man indeed, he'd have enjoyed Eve.

*/me dons his forum armour and waits for the inevitable beating that results from quoting The Art of War


[:baton:]

Read a better one.
lol I consider going on a few ops with the the miner bumping guys one of the best things I've ever done in Eve. Very educational.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#887 - 2014-09-01 02:25:48 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Sun Tzu wrote:
To know your Enemy, you must become your Enemy*
A wise man indeed, he'd have enjoyed Eve.

*/me dons his forum armour and waits for the inevitable beating that results from quoting The Art of War


[:baton:]

Read a better one.
lol I consider going on a few ops with the the miner bumping guys one of the best things I've ever done in Eve. Very educational.


I meant a better book on warfare.

The lesson is solid, there are just better texts.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon

Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
#888 - 2014-09-01 02:53:07 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
*/me dons his forum armour and waits for the inevitable beating that results from quoting The Art of War

i don't need to beat you, i attacked your wagons instead

you know you need more wagons to supply your supply wagons? yes you do because you read a book about fighting on horseback
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#889 - 2014-09-01 03:02:29 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
*/me dons his forum armour and waits for the inevitable beating that results from quoting The Art of War

i don't need to beat you, i attacked your wagons instead

you know you need more wagons to supply your supply wagons? yes you do because you read a book about fighting on horseback
Cursed Foiled again P

Also relevant

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Derrick Miles
Death Rabbit Ky Oneida
#890 - 2014-09-01 03:03:51 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
*/me dons his forum armour and waits for the inevitable beating that results from quoting The Art of War

i don't need to beat you, i attacked your wagons instead

you know you need more wagons to supply your supply wagons? yes you do because you read a book about fighting on horseback

Did you know that modern militaries still have supply lines? And that millennia old lessons on strategy still apply today?
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
#891 - 2014-09-01 03:12:04 UTC
Derrick Miles wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
*/me dons his forum armour and waits for the inevitable beating that results from quoting The Art of War

i don't need to beat you, i attacked your wagons instead

you know you need more wagons to supply your supply wagons? yes you do because you read a book about fighting on horseback

Did you know that modern militaries still have supply lines? And that millennia old lessons on strategy still apply today?

did you know that hummingbirds flap their wings up to two hundred times a second
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#892 - 2014-09-01 03:18:08 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
Derrick Miles wrote:
Did you know that modern militaries still have supply lines? And that millennia old lessons on strategy still apply today?

did you know that hummingbirds flap their wings up to two hundred times a second

Did you know that so do bumblebees, and that there's nothing particularly strange about their fight?
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#893 - 2014-09-01 03:22:08 UTC
Derrick Miles wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
*/me dons his forum armour and waits for the inevitable beating that results from quoting The Art of War

i don't need to beat you, i attacked your wagons instead

you know you need more wagons to supply your supply wagons? yes you do because you read a book about fighting on horseback

Did you know that modern militaries still have supply lines? And that millennia old lessons on strategy still apply today?


Which is why people are ganking Freighters. (Look at that, we're on topic again)

A lot of Sun Tzu's work *is* quite specific to his era, and most of the rest is presented better elsewhere.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon

Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
#894 - 2014-09-01 03:23:58 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:
Derrick Miles wrote:
Did you know that modern militaries still have supply lines? And that millennia old lessons on strategy still apply today?

did you know that hummingbirds flap their wings up to two hundred times a second

Did you know that so do bumblebees, and that there's nothing particularly strange about their fight?

false. bumblebee flight was scrutinised and objectively found to be adorable
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#895 - 2014-09-01 03:25:53 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:
Derrick Miles wrote:
Did you know that modern militaries still have supply lines? And that millennia old lessons on strategy still apply today?

did you know that hummingbirds flap their wings up to two hundred times a second

Did you know that so do bumblebees, and that there's nothing particularly strange about their fight?

false. bumblebee flight was scrutinised and objectively found to be adorable

Bah! Humbug. Unfair h4x argument. Cry
Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
#896 - 2014-09-01 03:49:04 UTC
Lilliana Stelles wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:
snip


Gotta run for an hour or so and I don't really have time to address this, but I'd like to point out:

I think you're confused on the difference between risk and cost.

From the dictionary.

Risk: the possibility that something bad or unpleasant (such as an injury or a loss) will happen (this doesn't apply to suicide ganking as the consequence is guaranteed).
Cost: something that is lost, damaged, or given up in order to achieve or get something


Without gankers, haulers would operate without risk. None at all. And for the gankers, there is always the risk of failure, especially if the victim is capable of mitigating the gank. This, however, takes effort.

Benny's not confused on these points. You are.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#897 - 2014-09-01 03:51:26 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Lilliana Stelles wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:
snip


Gotta run for an hour or so and I don't really have time to address this, but I'd like to point out:

I think you're confused on the difference between risk and cost.

From the dictionary.

Risk: the possibility that something bad or unpleasant (such as an injury or a loss) will happen (this doesn't apply to suicide ganking as the consequence is guaranteed).
Cost: something that is lost, damaged, or given up in order to achieve or get something


Without gankers, haulers would operate without risk. None at all. And for the gankers, there is always the risk of failure, especially if the victim is capable of mitigating the gank. This, however, takes effort.

Benny's not confused on these points. You are.


That's a good point, Remiel. Hauling does not have enough native risk on it's own.

I think we need to bring out gatecamping rats for highsec.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
#898 - 2014-09-01 03:54:28 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:


Okay, so what follows is entirely my personal opinion.

It's not a case of not "catering to the tearfilled entitled", it's a case of us staying true to the core of what EVE was built on.

Some of the people complaining in this thread have valid points about the fact that they don't feel safe. Simple fact of the matter is, that you're not suppose to feel safe in New Eden.

Eve is not a game for the faint hearted. It's a game that will chew you up and spit you out in the blink of an eye if you even think about letting your guard down or becoming complacent.

While every other MMO starts off with an intro that tells you you're going to be the savior of the realm, holds your hand, protects you, nurtures your development and ultimately guides you to your destiny as a hero along with several other million players who've had the exact same experience, EVE assaults you from the second you begin to play after you create a character, spitting you out into a universe that under the surface, is so complex that it's enough to make your head explode.

The entire design is based around being harsh, vicious, relentless, hostile and cold. It's about action and reaction, and the story that unfolds as you experience these two things.

True, we're working hard to lower the bar of entry so that more players can enjoy EVE and can get into the game. Our NPE (New Player Experience) is challenging, and we're trying to improve it to better prepare rookies for what lies out there, but when you start to play eve, you'll always start out as the little fish in the big pond.

The only way to grow is to voraciously consume what's around you, and its your choice whether that happens to be New Eden's abundant natural resources, or the other people who're also fighting their way to the top.

EVE is a playing experience like no other, where every action or reaction resonates through a single universe and is felt by players from all corners of the word. There are no shards here, no mirror universes, no instances and very few rules. If you stumble across something valuable, then chances are someone else already knows where you are, or is working their way toward you and you better be prepared to fight for what you've discovered.

EVE will test you from the outset, from the very second you undock and glimpse the stars, and will take pleasure from sorting those who can survive from those who'd rather curl up and perish.

EVE will let you fight until you collapse, then let you struggle to your feet, exhausted from the effort. Then when you can see the light at the end of the tunnel it'll kick you flat on your ass in the mud again and ask you why you deserve to be standing. It'll test you against every other individual playing at some point or another, and it'll ask for answers.

Give it an answer and maybe it'll let you up again, long enough to gather your thoughts. After a few more steps you're on the ground again and it's asking more questions.

EVE is designed to be harsh, it's designed to be challenging, and it's designed to be so deep and complex that it should fascinate and terrify you at the same time.

Corporation, Alliances and coalitions of tens of thousands have risen and fallen on these basic principles, and every one of those thousands of people has their own unique story to tell about how it affected them and what they experienced.

That's the beauty of EVE. Action and reaction. Emergence.

Welcome to the most frightening virtual playground you'll ever experience.


You sir just put into the perfect words every single reason why I play EVE.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104

Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
#899 - 2014-09-01 03:57:59 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Lilliana Stelles wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:
snip


Gotta run for an hour or so and I don't really have time to address this, but I'd like to point out:

I think you're confused on the difference between risk and cost.

From the dictionary.

Risk: the possibility that something bad or unpleasant (such as an injury or a loss) will happen (this doesn't apply to suicide ganking as the consequence is guaranteed).
Cost: something that is lost, damaged, or given up in order to achieve or get something


Without gankers, haulers would operate without risk. None at all. And for the gankers, there is always the risk of failure, especially if the victim is capable of mitigating the gank. This, however, takes effort.

Benny's not confused on these points. You are.


That's a good point, Remiel. Hauling does not have enough native risk on it's own.

I think we need to bring out gatecamping rats for highsec.


I've always supported this measure, and I don't personally see why it's not already a thing. You get rats in belts, why not on gates? The only reason I can think of is that it'd be a bit weird to have them and the navies on the gates not shooting each other. But that's easy to fix - just have them shooting each other when they're on the same gate, it'll add some immersion. Seriously, why DON'T NPCs ever shoot at each other? I've never seen it. Anyway, I'm sidetracking....

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104

Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#900 - 2014-09-01 04:02:45 UTC
Matrea D wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:

Bumpers are preventing the gank victim from leaving the system with the clear intent of letting their friends come back and hill him. To have the police sitting there and not intervening is downright insane.


CONCORD doesn't interfere with the initial bumping, but they should interfere during the second bumping?

It's not like CONCORD is there to help people who don't understand game mechanics. "Oh, this pilot doesn't know how to get out of being bumped, we'd better do something about that."

Veers Belvar wrote:
And it's highsec - you don't need to beg friends to protect you from criminals, that's what CONCORD is for. If you don't want that mechanic, go to nullsec.


CONCORD are not your fleet members. They do not replace having fleet support. Stop trying to make it.

Also, please tell me where it says that highsec is where you don't need friends to protect you.


They should allow the target to escape the bumping, as any law enforcement force would. CONCORD is there to punish criminal activity, and being pinned down so that successive waves of gankers can shoot you is clearly criminal in this context.