These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

High Sec Hauling/Mining Kills - TY CCP for No Protection

First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
DJentropy Ovaert
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#221 - 2014-08-28 17:42:27 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:
Why should CCP provide protection for your haulage in high sec?

CONCORD offer a level of deterrent just the same as any law enforcement agency, but as with any police for they're reactive and punitive rather than proactive.

If you want your haulage to be safer, bring the guns. If you don't have any guns, sacrifice some of your profit margin and hire someone who has them to escort you.

Welcome to New Eden, you just learned a very valuable lesson in being prepared and covering your back.

Smile



Literally pressing like as hard as I can while throwing money at the screen and celebrating.

FALCON PUNCH

You just accidentally the entire anti-ganking community, sir. What kind of scotch do you prefer, and what address do I mail it to?
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#222 - 2014-08-28 17:46:00 UTC
Sentient Blade wrote:
Sibyyl wrote:
[quote=Sentient Blade]You can shoot anyone you want, anytime you want. Your choice to fear the consequences is the cause of your failure, not Mr. Falcon's suggestion.


Because sitting in a station for 15 minutes with GCC unable to undock anything capable of defending something else, just because you fired one salvo to protect yourself is amazing gameplay <3


The real issue is Concord. If Concord wasn't there then you wouldn't have this excuse to hide behind.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#223 - 2014-08-28 17:46:13 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
not at all. There is a small part of the movment that is reasoanble and do not want gank gone. Just think that the effects of cocnord intervention are too small, sepcially with the cheap gank ships like destroyers. Just that. And analysing that is within a reasonable request level.


CONCORD intervention means:
Ship Loss
Sec Status Loss
15 minute time out
Killright

Regardless of the success or failure of the attack.

That's a pretty big set of effects. And using smaller ships to minimize the effect of the first just magnifies the effects of the last three.

What more do you want?

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#224 - 2014-08-28 18:16:54 UTC
DJentropy Ovaert wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:
Why should CCP provide protection for your haulage in high sec?

CONCORD offer a level of deterrent just the same as any law enforcement agency, but as with any police for they're reactive and punitive rather than proactive.

If you want your haulage to be safer, bring the guns. If you don't have any guns, sacrifice some of your profit margin and hire someone who has them to escort you.

Welcome to New Eden, you just learned a very valuable lesson in being prepared and covering your back.

Smile



Literally pressing like as hard as I can while throwing money at the screen and celebrating.

FALCON PUNCH

You just accidentally the entire anti-ganking community, sir. What kind of scotch do you prefer, and what address do I mail it to?

I was delaying my response until I could come up with a good way of expressing how much I agree with Falcon's post. I give up. At least this post gets close.

Founder of Violet Squadron, a small gang NPSI community! Mail me for more information.

BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie's Space Mediation Service!
Tam Althor
Commonwealth Industries
#225 - 2014-08-28 18:31:56 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:
Why should CCP provide protection for your haulage in high sec?

CONCORD offer a level of deterrent just the same as any law enforcement agency, but as with any police for they're reactive and punitive rather than proactive.

If you want your haulage to be safer, bring the guns. If you don't have any guns, sacrifice some of your profit margin and hire someone who has them to escort you.

Welcome to New Eden, you just learned a very valuable lesson in being prepared and covering your back.

Smile



Remember CCP Falcon, the level of protection that concord provides players is the same level of job protection you have when the high sec players decide to quit. Will you survive the next 20% layoff when it happens?
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#226 - 2014-08-28 18:33:41 UTC
Bronson Hughes wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
not at all. There is a small part of the movment that is reasoanble and do not want gank gone. Just think that the effects of cocnord intervention are too small, sepcially with the cheap gank ships like destroyers. Just that. And analysing that is within a reasonable request level.


Fair enough

CCP Falcon wrote:
Why should CCP provide protection for your haulage in high sec?

CONCORD offer a level of deterrent just the same as any law enforcement agency, but as with any police for they're reactive and punitive rather than proactive.

If you want your haulage to be safer, bring the guns. If you don't have any guns, sacrifice some of your profit margin and hire someone who has them to escort you.

Welcome to New Eden, you just learned a very valuable lesson in being prepared and covering your back.

Smile


CCP Falcon accidentally most of the anti-ganking movement. Pirate



Better? Blink


I feel pleased with your exacerbation of wisdom and moderation...

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Natural CloneKiller
Commonwealth Mercenaries
BLACKFLAG.
#227 - 2014-08-28 19:01:14 UTC
To keep this discussion going for a little bit longer and for the 'FALCON PUNCH' comment making me laugh so much, please accept last weeks instalment:

http://imgur.com/z6s3vu9

This was a picture I took on my phone of SARGE ZONE HAULING SERVICES on his live (4 second delay TWICH stream!!!) He accepted one of our contracts and just so happened to have a live TWITCH stream of the Hauling. We laughed so hard that someone would stream this and listen to Eve Radio + have others watching the stream.

When we started watching his stream he was in a Charon and no the Talos army was not at hand at the time :) but you pick up the story here with him swapping to an Unfitted T1 Hauler! and just dropping our package into its cargo!

When I get some time I will upload the FRAPS of the whole thing. I will let someone else go digging for his stream link as its all there recorded!

My one comment to all of the posts is as follows:

If the haulers dedicated as much time and as much attention to detail as we do then they would be safe. Then we would evolve and adapt. All I ask for from CCP is to continue to give all players gankers or bears the ability to continue to evolve the game we all play. I mean who goes looking for a TWITCH stream for a hauler to see if they can get more intel!!!

Oh and respect the FALCON PUNCH!!!
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Doomheim
#228 - 2014-08-28 19:16:40 UTC
DJentropy Ovaert wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:
Why should CCP provide protection for your haulage in high sec?

CONCORD offer a level of deterrent just the same as any law enforcement agency, but as with any police for they're reactive and punitive rather than proactive.

If you want your haulage to be safer, bring the guns. If you don't have any guns, sacrifice some of your profit margin and hire someone who has them to escort you.

Welcome to New Eden, you just learned a very valuable lesson in being prepared and covering your back.

Smile


...FALCON PUNCH...

FALCON PUNCH

F

Would you like to know more?
Vlademyr
Absolute Order
Absolute Honor
#229 - 2014-08-28 19:44:26 UTC
@duchess amarrian Thanks for letting us know everything is working as intended
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#230 - 2014-08-28 20:01:52 UTC
where's that guy with the entitlement saga? that would be a good thing for this thread

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
Jarod Garamonde
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#231 - 2014-08-28 20:16:30 UTC
Duchess Amarrian wrote:
Last night my hauling ship got blown sky high. I was flying a prorator and doing some deliveries. The person that shot me down organised it really well by setting up contracts and sucking in the person accepting the contract. I wont go into detail here. As i was making the delivery and just 1 second from being docked into station my ship got blown sky high. From what ? a minmitar Battleship that was so many km's away. It took 2 people to stop me.

I keep hearing that ccp wil be doing something about this. I've just had enough of it. Seriously I'm trying to find some fun in this game and seeing that the others always have the edge over miners and haulers in high sec is a real joke. I don't mind if it had happened in low sec and null but when your playing by ccp rules to me it seems there are no rules and high sec is really a joke.

At the very least give miners and haulers some big guns like you give others and maybe will balance things well.

The two that got me are "Luukje" and "Natural CloneKiller". I put up a big bounty on Luk so enjoy your hunting.

cheers





Not too long ago, they made it so that CONCORD ECM's the crap out of their targets, the second they arrive on grid.
What more do you want? Unarmed ships to be made untargettable? How about you protect yourself and fly smarter? Maybe even with escorts, from now on?

Bounties are not a punishment. We actually like having bounties on us. It's considered a badge of honor amongst pirates, and a nice reward to anyone who kills us in mutual combat. So, rest assured, they ARE enjoying the bounty you put on them.

You're flying a hauler, not a combat ship. CCP isn't going to give you 8 turret slots and enough PG/CPU to fit BShip guns. It makes no sense, and it marginalizes actual combat ships. You think a Holliday Cruise liner or an Exxon oil tanker has 17-inch guns and steel armor plates?

Seriously. Get over yourself. Stab out your ship or fit a tank and learn to fight back. QQ'ing on the forums is just going to get you laughed at AND wardec'd.

That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right...

    [#savethelance]
Jarod Garamonde
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#232 - 2014-08-28 20:18:34 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:
Why should CCP provide protection for your haulage in high sec?

CONCORD offer a level of deterrent just the same as any law enforcement agency, but as with any police for they're reactive and punitive rather than proactive.

If you want your haulage to be safer, bring the guns. If you don't have any guns, sacrifice some of your profit margin and hire someone who has them to escort you.

Welcome to New Eden, you just learned a very valuable lesson in being prepared and covering your back.

Smile




This is why we love Falcon.

That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right...

    [#savethelance]
E-2C Hawkeye
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#233 - 2014-08-28 20:29:16 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
You can do something about it yourself. No need to ask CCP for help.

You already have big guns too. Just like the other guy does. You just choose not to train for them, or not to use them. That's not the fault of the other guy who is just having fun. He doesn't mean anything against you personally.

This may be somewhat accurate but not really true. Even when you fit for tank or min/max mining or hauling it doesn’t leave room for guns. Should you even fit guns on your hauler/miner it won’t stop the gank.

Indy doesn’t need the ability to fight back with guns, they need the ability to defend or defend better then what they have at the moment.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#234 - 2014-08-28 20:30:47 UTC
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:
You can do something about it yourself. No need to ask CCP for help.

You already have big guns too. Just like the other guy does. You just choose not to train for them, or not to use them. That's not the fault of the other guy who is just having fun. He doesn't mean anything against you personally.

This may be somewhat accurate but not really true. Even when you fit for tank or min/max mining or hauling it doesn’t leave room for guns. Should you even fit guns on your hauler/miner it won’t stop the gank.

Indy doesn’t need the ability to fight back with guns, they need the ability to defend or defend better then what they have at the moment.



GUNS will not stop the ganking. Why people even think of guns? Even if you were in a fully armed cruiser. Youwould not kill the gankers before concord arrives.

You need to be SMART, MOVE safely, use scouts. Just that.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Paranoid Loyd
#235 - 2014-08-28 20:42:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Paranoid Loyd
Kagura Nikon wrote:

GUNS will not stop the ganking. Why people even think of guns? Even if you were in a fully armed cruiser. Youwould not kill the gankers before concord arrives.

You need to be SMART, MOVE safely, use scouts. Just that.


We've already gone over this. You don't engage him while he is shooting the hauler, you engage him before he has a chance to engage the hauler.

Is it the first choice in this situation? No, I think we all agree this situation should not have happened in the first place. But to say Guns won't stop the ganking is not true.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#236 - 2014-08-28 20:44:23 UTC  |  Edited by: RubyPorto
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:
You can do something about it yourself. No need to ask CCP for help.

You already have big guns too. Just like the other guy does. You just choose not to train for them, or not to use them. That's not the fault of the other guy who is just having fun. He doesn't mean anything against you personally.

This may be somewhat accurate but not really true. Even when you fit for tank or min/max mining or hauling it doesn’t leave room for guns. Should you even fit guns on your hauler/miner it won’t stop the gank.

Indy doesn’t need the ability to fight back with guns, they need the ability to defend or defend better then what they have at the moment.


A solo hauler can trivially protect himself against a solo ganker with the tools already available.

A hauler needs organized and intelligent help (one character will do in most situations) to protect himself from a large group of gankers.


In other words, the hauler has the advantage in solo encounters and needs far fewer players to have the advantage in group encounters.

Why do haulers need more help?

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Hengle Teron
Red Sky Morning
The Amarr Militia.
#237 - 2014-08-28 20:48:20 UTC
Hm I thought it would be the ganker thanking CCP for no ultimate carebear protection in highsec What?
Angeal MacNova
Holefood Inc.
Warriors of the Blood God
#238 - 2014-08-28 21:05:24 UTC
Omar Alharazaad wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Angeal MacNova wrote:
Being at the keyboard is a fallacy. Doesn't make a difference.
Eh, no. What kind of fallacy do you think it is? Ugh
And being at the keyboard isn't bad advice either, by the way: it helps you not be there when the ganker arrives.

This. You can't Dscan while AFK.
Back when I still mined I avoided a couple ganks in my mackinaw due to a healthy dose of paranoia, preparation, and liberal use of the 360 degree dscan. By the time the cats landed on grid all they saw were the receding tail lights of my rocket car.


DScan is pointless in Hi-sec. You know, that placer where the majority of ganking occurs. As Tippia already pointed out, without CONCORD it would be called ganking.

It's a fallacy WRT that it doesn't help stop a gank. I've already listed the reasons why.

http://www.projectvaulderie.com/goodnight-sweet-prince/

http://www.projectvaulderie.com/the-untold-story/

CCP's true, butthurt, colors.

Because those who can't do themselves keep others from doing too.
Angeal MacNova
Holefood Inc.
Warriors of the Blood God
#239 - 2014-08-28 21:08:47 UTC
Tam Althor wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:
Why should CCP provide protection for your haulage in high sec?

CONCORD offer a level of deterrent just the same as any law enforcement agency, but as with any police for they're reactive and punitive rather than proactive.

If you want your haulage to be safer, bring the guns. If you don't have any guns, sacrifice some of your profit margin and hire someone who has them to escort you.

Welcome to New Eden, you just learned a very valuable lesson in being prepared and covering your back.

Smile



Remember CCP Falcon, the level of protection that concord provides players is the same level of job protection you have when the high sec players decide to quit. Will you survive the next 20% layoff when it happens?


Just wanted to add this.

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/224365/CCP_closes_San_Francisco_offices_lays_off_two_key_executives.php#.U_8ZD1IUtGI.twitter

http://www.projectvaulderie.com/goodnight-sweet-prince/

http://www.projectvaulderie.com/the-untold-story/

CCP's true, butthurt, colors.

Because those who can't do themselves keep others from doing too.
Paranoid Loyd
#240 - 2014-08-28 21:11:43 UTC
Angeal MacNova wrote:
It's a fallacy WRT that it doesn't help stop a gank. I've already listed the reasons why.


Yes it does. I looked back through your posts and could not find said list maybe you can enlighten us again or at least point to said list.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!