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High Sec Hauling/Mining Kills - TY CCP for No Protection

First post First post
Author
Syn Shi
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#301 - 2014-08-29 01:14:33 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:
Kiandoshia wrote:
Duchess Amarrian wrote:
high sec is really a joke.


This, essentially.


Being unprepared and putting all your eggs in one basket to make a nice juicy target for a suicide gank is the joke here, not highsec.

There are a multitude of ways to protect yourself from suicide gankers, people just automatically assume they're "safe" in highsec, then get annoyed when they lose a ship because of their own lack of spatial awareness.




Gankers have already accepted the fact that they are going to lose a cheap ship. There is no deterrent for them at all. Risk is a myth that CCP keeps preaching hoping some will drink the cool-aid.

Only thing left is reward and acceptable losses. Acceptable losses are easily replaced, just buy more plex.

Telling new players there is something they can do is just lying to their face and hoping that they believe long enough to buy another plex.

CCP Falcon
#302 - 2014-08-29 01:14:58 UTC
Syn Shi wrote:
There is no risk to gank in hi-sec. The ships they use are so cheap and easy to replace the whole risk thing has been circumvented.

Ship blows up, so what...just buy another.

Everyone knows your name, no probelm just buy another character.

The game is so saturated with isk that isk has removed the risk factor.


Tell that to all the guys who suicide gank someone, and end up making a heavy loss because everything they wanted to loot gets destroyed in the ship destruction.

Smile

CCP Falcon || EVE Universe Community Manager || @CCP_Falcon

Happy Birthday To FAWLTY7! <3

Sentient Blade
Crisis Atmosphere
Coalition of the Unfortunate
#303 - 2014-08-29 01:18:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Sentient Blade
Risk vs Reward doesn't really apply to gankers ol boy. It's cost vs reward, a straight equation weighted massively towards reward. Risk implies a probability of something happening, which is increased if you're not paying attention. A hauler takes risks. A ganker knows he or she is going to lose their ship, exactly how much it will cost, and a fair approximation of what will drop and be recoverable.

Maybe the loot fairy isn't great one time, well the law of averages says that you're going to turn a huge profit if you do it enough times.
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari
End of Life
#304 - 2014-08-29 01:21:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Sentient Blade wrote:
Risk vs Reward doesn't really apply to gankers ol boy. It's cost vs reward, a straight equation weighted massively towards reward. Risk implies a probability of something happening,...

Risk is still there. It's just that the gankers have accepted the risk.

They accept that there is a 100% likelihood that the consequence will be destruction of their ship and sec status.

If there was no risk, why not gank them first and keep all your stuff to yourself?
Colitina
Doomheim
#305 - 2014-08-29 01:22:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Colitina
The most laughable part about it all is that you are in fact ungankable while hauling if you know what you're doing.

The new DST can sport such amazing tanks you can only be ganked through piloting error.
The freighter has been ungankable in high-sec from the day web bonused ships were introduced.

We're talking literally ungankable and yet people still complain. You know, I've never seen a ganker complain that someone web-warped to safety in front of him. Also, 0 complaints so far about 800,000 EHP deadspace DST's roaming about. It's because when we see it we don't care that our chance at ganking them is 0.1%. We respect them for taking the time and effort to put themselves in such a position to begin with.

EDIT: I should say nearly ungankable, as a committed group of pro-bumpers could in theory down a DST and there is a tactic I won't share for catching web-warp freighters.
CCP Falcon
#306 - 2014-08-29 01:22:15 UTC
Sentient Blade wrote:
Risk vs Reward doesn't really apply to gankers ol boy. It's cost vs reward, a straight equation weighted massively towards reward. Risk implies a probability of something happening, which is increased if you're not paying attention. A hauler takes risks. A ganker knows he or she is going to lose their ship, exactly how much it will cost, and a fair approximation of what will drop and be recoverable.


Because he's prepared himself, done the work and knows exactly what he's doing, how to achieve his objective, and knows the risk if the stuff he wants doesn't drop.

I say fair play to him if he cuts a profit from someone who's half-assed a ship fitting and AFK hauled across space with a sizeable chunk of ISK in their hold.

Honestly, doing that in EVE is like dressing up in red, diving into the ring with a bull and complaining when you spend six weeks in hospital because you got the horns.

This might be internet spaceships, but it's not rocket science to protect yourself and fly with a little common sense.

CCP Falcon || EVE Universe Community Manager || @CCP_Falcon

Happy Birthday To FAWLTY7! <3

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#307 - 2014-08-29 01:22:39 UTC
Sentient Blade wrote:

Maybe the loot fairy isn't great one time, well the law of averages says that you're going to turn a huge profit if you do it enough times.


Except for the part where the "reward" is entirely dictated by the choices made by the person doing the hauling.

They've chosen to increase their own risk in exchange for more profit, other players can choose to take advantage of that.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Derrick Miles
Death Rabbit Ky Oneida
#308 - 2014-08-29 01:24:36 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:
CONCORD offer a level of deterrent just the same as any law enforcement agency, but as with any police for they're reactive and punitive rather than proactive.

I'm not sure this analogy holds up very well. Any career criminal who makes a habit of getting caught by the police won't have a very long career.
Maduin Shi
MAGA Inc
#309 - 2014-08-29 01:25:16 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:
Syn Shi wrote:
There is no risk to gank in hi-sec. The ships they use are so cheap and easy to replace the whole risk thing has been circumvented.

Ship blows up, so what...just buy another.

Everyone knows your name, no probelm just buy another character.

The game is so saturated with isk that isk has removed the risk factor.


Tell that to all the guys who suicide gank someone, and end up making a heavy loss because everything they wanted to loot gets destroyed in the ship destruction.

Smile


I'm quite confident the suicide gankers work hard to find their targets. And highsec is better for it.
Cancel Align NOW
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#310 - 2014-08-29 01:25:42 UTC
Damn you Falcon, I was honestly trying to help some of these guys understand D-scan. You gone and buried my post 2 pages deep in risk vs reward philosophy.
Pepper Swift
Perkone
Caldari State
#311 - 2014-08-29 01:25:58 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:
Sentient Blade wrote:
Risk vs Reward doesn't really apply to gankers ol boy. It's cost vs reward, a straight equation weighted massively towards reward. Risk implies a probability of something happening, which is increased if you're not paying attention. A hauler takes risks. A ganker knows he or she is going to lose their ship, exactly how much it will cost, and a fair approximation of what will drop and be recoverable.


Because he's prepared himself, done the work and knows exactly what he's doing, how to achieve his objective, and knows the risk if the stuff he wants doesn't drop.

I say fair play to him if he cuts a profit from someone who's half-assed a ship fitting and AFK hauled across space with a sizeable chunk of ISK in their hold.

Honestly, doing that in EVE is like dressing up in red, diving into the ring with a bull and complaining when you spend six weeks in hospital because you got the horns.

This might be internet spaceships, but it's not rocket science to protect yourself and fly with a little common sense.




Haha go falcon.. :D *falcooooon puuunch*

What I need most.. is a day between Saturday and Sunday...

If life gives you melons, you might be dyslexic

DJentropy Ovaert
The Conference Elite
CODE.
#312 - 2014-08-29 01:34:25 UTC
CCP FALCON PUNCHES FOR ALL OF THE DAMAGE

CRITICAL HIT

/thread

The FALCON ALWAYS WINS
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#313 - 2014-08-29 01:35:38 UTC
DJentropy Ovaert wrote:
CCP FALCON PUNCHES FOR ALL OF THE DAMAGE

CRITICAL HIT

/thread

The FALCON ALWAYS WINS


Pretty sure I'm going to have to donate a few hundred mil on his behalf to CODE when I get home from work tomorrow morning.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

DJentropy Ovaert
The Conference Elite
CODE.
#314 - 2014-08-29 01:36:51 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:


Pretty sure I'm going to have to donate a few hundred mil on his behalf to CODE when I get home from work tomorrow morning.



Just so glad to have him drop in for some common sense.

Make some friends, pay attention to things, learn to fit, you'll be just fine. Half ass it - you have no one to blame but yourself.
Sophaya Fortelleren
The Conference Elite
CODE.
#315 - 2014-08-29 01:38:10 UTC
CCP Falcon's words bring the unadulterated pure truth. I hearby proclaim as Prophet of The New Order that Falcon be elevated to sainthood in the name of 315.

From this day forth, CCP Falcon shall be known as "Saint Falcon the Explainer".


Glory upon thee.
Ahost Gceo
Violence is the Answer
Wormhole Society
#316 - 2014-08-29 01:43:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Ahost Gceo
I'm all for telling people that they need to harden up in EVE, and I'm not going to overlook the fact OP accepted the scam contract, but he does make a valid point about hisec not being the environment it was supposed to be.

CONCORD as a complex mechanic is broken, allowing aggressors to toodle about doing as they please while the targets can't really defend themselves from the gankboats that sport so much alpha damage or DPS that they instapop just about anything not fit for combat. Hisec is hisec for a reason and it should exist as such, not as a place for people to exploit game mechanics for their benefit.

The simple fix would be to make all weapons unable to be activated on a player ship in hisec much like how you can't launch a bomb. The obvious exceptions would be wardecs and duels.

I know the amount of sneering after people read this is off the charts but I do think there needs to be one place in EVE that is a safe haven for those who do not want to engage in PVP activity.

And in true CCP style they should implement the above change despite how much people object.

CCP ignore me please, I make too much sense.

DJentropy Ovaert
The Conference Elite
CODE.
#317 - 2014-08-29 01:45:03 UTC
Ahost Gceo wrote:
I'm all for telling people that they need to harden up in EVE, and I'm not going to overlook the fact OP accepted the scam contract, but he does make a valid point about hisec not being the environment it was supposed to be.

CONCORD as a complex mechanic is broken, allowing aggressors to toodle about doing as they please while the targets can't really defend themselves from the gankboats that sport so much alpha damage or DPS that they instapop just about anything not fit for combat. Hisec is hisec for a reason it should exist as such, not as a place for people to exploit game mechanics for their benefit.

The simple fix would be to make all weapons unable to be activated on a player ship in hisec much like how you can't launch a bomb. The obvious exceptions would be wardecs and duels.

I know the amount of sneering after people read this is off the charts but I do think there needs to be one place in EVE that is a safe haven for those who do not want to engage in PVP activity.


Confirming you totally missed his point.

PVP in high-sec is part of eve, a supported game mechanic, and your idea to turn it into disneyland is silly.

HTFU. Adapt or die. Beware the falcon punch.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#318 - 2014-08-29 01:46:11 UTC
Ahost Gceo wrote:
I know the amount of sneering after people read this is off the charts but I do think there needs to be one place in EVE that is a safe haven for those who do not want to engage in PVP activity.
CCP disagree.

New Player FAQ wrote:
7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?
No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided.
Working as intended.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#319 - 2014-08-29 01:47:07 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Pretty sure I'm going to have to donate a few hundred mil on his behalf to CODE when I get home from work tomorrow morning.

Come to think of it, who's the proper recipient for donations? I feel the sudden urge to fund even more of their mayhem because of all of this. Lol
Ahost Gceo
Violence is the Answer
Wormhole Society
#320 - 2014-08-29 01:48:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Ahost Gceo
DJentropy Ovaert wrote:
Ahost Gceo wrote:
I'm all for telling people that they need to harden up in EVE, and I'm not going to overlook the fact OP accepted the scam contract, but he does make a valid point about hisec not being the environment it was supposed to be.

CONCORD as a complex mechanic is broken, allowing aggressors to toodle about doing as they please while the targets can't really defend themselves from the gankboats that sport so much alpha damage or DPS that they instapop just about anything not fit for combat. Hisec is hisec for a reason it should exist as such, not as a place for people to exploit game mechanics for their benefit.

The simple fix would be to make all weapons unable to be activated on a player ship in hisec much like how you can't launch a bomb. The obvious exceptions would be wardecs and duels.

I know the amount of sneering after people read this is off the charts but I do think there needs to be one place in EVE that is a safe haven for those who do not want to engage in PVP activity.


Confirming you totally missed his point.

PVP in high-sec is part of eve, a supported game mechanic, and your idea to turn it into disneyland is silly.

HTFU. Adapt or die. Beware the falcon punch.

It isn't Disneyland if the actual fun and exciting parts about the game lie outside of that "land". People will get bored enough to venture outside and try new things.

CCP ignore me please, I make too much sense.