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Every MMO is first a solo game.

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Jenshae Chiroptera
#181 - 2015-07-13 20:54:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
Dracvlad wrote:
Facts, hard data is held by CCP, they could not even sort out how ganking affects new players properly as per CCP Rise's presentation at Fanfest. You know full well that it is not possible to get hard data on this, proves nothing....
Not a good example.
People have latched onto a very small time window sample and are proclaiming that the data is sound and ganking is good for new players.

Edit: Example of self deception provided by Kaarous.
(By the way, some pretty interesting stuff has been published about how people reinforce their irrational beliefs and will latch onto almost anything that props them up.)

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Baaldor
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#182 - 2015-07-13 21:00:46 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Baaldor wrote:
That should tell you something about my concern.

So, drop them facts on us


Facts, hard data is held by CCP, they could not even sort out how ganking affects new players properly as per CCP Rise's presentation at Fanfest. You know full well that it is not possible to get hard data on this, proves nothing.

As I said I knock around with people who played the beta, throwing names around like you did is not impressive...


The names were to make a point you missed.

They sorted it out, you did not like or accept it.

Thus your myopic view point is not valid.
Renegade Heart
Doomheim
#183 - 2015-07-13 21:02:19 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
P.S. It is possible to make a Curse that can vamp or neut as far out as 99km


117.6km in fact!
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#184 - 2015-07-13 21:04:26 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Facts, hard data is held by CCP, they could not even sort out how ganking affects new players properly as per CCP Rise's presentation at Fanfest. You know full well that it is not possible to get hard data on this, proves nothing....
Not a good example.
People have latched onto a very small time window sample and are proclaiming that the data is sound and ganking is good for new players.


That's what is supported by the data, yes. Unless you or Dracvlad have any non-Star-Citizen-forums-anecdotal-data to share with us on the matter? I know that you don't, by the way.

CCP has said outright that ganking does not have a net negative effect on player retention. The only evidence available indicates that not only is ganking and non consensual PvP not harmful, but that it is a good indicator of positive player retention.

Some people don't want this to be true, however, hence the flimsily hidden attempts to disqualify. But it's too late, the carebear narrative is shattered, turned on it's head even. Because it turns out that conflict isn't what drives people away from EVE Online.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#185 - 2015-07-13 21:05:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
The only [sic: extremely limited and very narrow] evidence available
Renegade Heart wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
P.S. It is possible to make a Curse that can vamp or neut as far out as 99km
117.6km in fact!
Hax! Shocked
P

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#186 - 2015-07-13 21:08:31 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Facts, hard data is held by CCP, they could not even sort out how ganking affects new players properly as per CCP Rise's presentation at Fanfest. You know full well that it is not possible to get hard data on this, proves nothing....
Not a good example.
People have latched onto a very small time window sample and are proclaiming that the data is sound and ganking is good for new players.


That's what is supported by the data, yes. Unless you or Dracvlad have any non-Star-Citizen-forums-anecdotal-data to share with us on the matter? I know that you don't, by the way.

CCP has said outright that ganking does not have a net negative effect on player retention. The only evidence available indicates that not only is ganking and non consensual PvP not harmful, but that it is a good indicator of positive player retention.

Some people don't want this to be true, however, hence the flimsily hidden attempts to disqualify. But it's too late, the carebear narrative is shattered, turned on it's head even. Because it turns out that conflict isn't what drives people away from EVE Online.


Yawn...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#187 - 2015-07-13 21:11:56 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Facts, hard data is held by CCP, they could not even sort out how ganking affects new players properly as per CCP Rise's presentation at Fanfest. You know full well that it is not possible to get hard data on this, proves nothing....
Not a good example.
People have latched onto a very small time window sample and are proclaiming that the data is sound and ganking is good for new players.


That's what is supported by the data, yes. Unless you or Dracvlad have any non-Star-Citizen-forums-anecdotal-data to share with us on the matter? I know that you don't, by the way.

CCP has said outright that ganking does not have a net negative effect on player retention. The only evidence available indicates that not only is ganking and non consensual PvP not harmful, but that it is a good indicator of positive player retention.

Some people don't want this to be true, however, hence the flimsily hidden attempts to disqualify. But it's too late, the carebear narrative is shattered, turned on it's head even. Because it turns out that conflict isn't what drives people away from EVE Online.


Yawn...


Still not seeing any contesting evidence. Just you not wanting to accept the facts.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#188 - 2015-07-13 21:14:18 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Still not seeing any contesting evidence. Just you not wanting to accept the facts.
Still not seeing any data that can be taken seriously enough to contest with time consuming to produce evidence.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#189 - 2015-07-13 21:15:07 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Still not seeing any contesting evidence. Just you not wanting to accept the facts.
Still not seeing any data that can be taken seriously enough to contest with time consuming to produce evidence.


"hence the flimsily hidden attempts to disqualify"

Man, I should play the lottery.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Baaldor
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#190 - 2015-07-13 21:15:14 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Facts, hard data is held by CCP, they could not even sort out how ganking affects new players properly as per CCP Rise's presentation at Fanfest. You know full well that it is not possible to get hard data on this, proves nothing....
Not a good example.
People have latched onto a very small time window sample and are proclaiming that the data is sound and ganking is good for new players.


That's what is supported by the data, yes. Unless you or Dracvlad have any non-Star-Citizen-forums-anecdotal-data to share with us on the matter? I know that you don't, by the way.

CCP has said outright that ganking does not have a net negative effect on player retention. The only evidence available indicates that not only is ganking and non consensual PvP not harmful, but that it is a good indicator of positive player retention.

Some people don't want this to be true, however, hence the flimsily hidden attempts to disqualify. But it's too late, the carebear narrative is shattered, turned on it's head even. Because it turns out that conflict isn't what drives people away from EVE Online.


Yawn...


Still not seeing any contesting evidence. Just you not wanting to accept the facts.


No he is stating his position.

It might be an adolescent self delusional position but, it is a position.
Renegade Heart
Doomheim
#191 - 2015-07-13 21:16:26 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Hax! Shocked
P


Officer stuff Big smile
Jenshae Chiroptera
#192 - 2015-07-13 22:05:49 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Man, I should play the lottery.
At 1/13 841 287 201 odds and the evidence that some people do win it; I am surprised you do not spend your whole pay cheque on lottery tickets.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#193 - 2015-07-13 22:47:44 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:


Still not seeing any contesting evidence. Just you not wanting to accept the facts.


And we both know we won't, standard human hypocrisy and double standards.

I mean it's really amazing how quick people are to dismiss evidence that doesn't support what they want to believe when the same people have ZERO actual evidence of anything. It's like them saying "sure, I got nothing, but I still don't accept what you have!".

It's always like that, on forums and in real life. People form opinions with nothing other than their personal biases, with an extremely low threshold (ie non-existent threshold) if evidence. But if you challenge them, they want encyclopedic peer reviewed scientific evidence printed on the proper forms, in triplicate and notarized and EVEN THEN they will deny it because it doesn't serve their purposes.

Best thing to do is just bookmark and link this mother ****** again in 6 months Twisted
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#194 - 2015-07-14 03:40:49 UTC
New topic change: EVE Forums is first a drunken brawl between alts.

I'm in it for the money

Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#195 - 2015-07-14 05:34:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Barrogh Habalu
Baaldor wrote:
So, basically the Tl;Dr

The socially challenged have very short life spans with EvE.

Tl;dr is that people who create an account and do not log in afterwards are likely to leave EVE. Probably they fall into "I don't have SP and can't have fun without them" trap, or maybe it's those that launch the client, think "wtf is this sh@t" and don't bother.
Well, most of them don't stay, who knew?..

Market interactions being "player interaction" is technicality because there's nothing social behind this interaction. Being solo player for a long while I can say that when you are in "autist mode", gameplay-wise (emphasis here is important, because generally I feel that it's actually great thing about EVE) I couldn't care less if marked hubs are player-driven or NPC-seeded and whether there is a player behind that suicide squad / gatecamp or it's just a bot who randomly decides to blap you based on some EHP/ISK in cargo formula (or just attacks you in case of non-HS environement).
There is nothing close to social interaction here, and like I said, without social component most players (definitely - new ones) won't see the difference between players and smart bots.

Which kind of makes me doubt that CCP meant "80% of those who don't interact with players directly or indirectly leave", because it takes not logging in in order to avoid all kinds of player interaction, so I suppose CCP actually meant something more meaningful.

That said, it may as well be stupid PR. And hey, 20% who don't log in and stay in the game can be explained away with character bazar alts P

... I'm not even sure why do I post it.

That said, remove non-character API and make watchlisting only possible with mutual agreement. Yada yada free intel etc.

Future of T3 cruisers - multi-tool they aspired to be instead of sledgehammer they have become
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#196 - 2015-07-14 05:57:35 UTC
What most people fail to understand is every MMO is a multiplayer game. It's technically impossible to solo in a MMO even when "soloing".

Take me for example. People suck, I hate them both in and out of game however even as a soloer my early piracy affected many, my helping in Help chan helped many, my war decs affected thousands, my creation of Privateers caused many to fear high sec and the changes to war decs in response to that changed the mechanics of the game. In later years my AFK Cloaking raids in alliance hubs emptied prime systems and my wisdom here on the forums and exposure of the cash faucets of nullsec created fear and loathing among the nullsec aristocracy.

And I've barely been in a gang throughout my 10+ years of EvE Online.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
The Conference
#197 - 2015-07-14 06:12:53 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
What most people fail to understand is every MMO is a multiplayer game. It's technically impossible to solo in a MMO even when "soloing".

Take me for example. People suck, I hate them both in and out of game however even as a soloer my early piracy affected many, my helping in Help chan helped many, my war decs affected thousands, my creation of Privateers caused many to fear high sec and the changes to war decs in response to that changed the mechanics of the game. In later years my AFK Cloaking raids in alliance hubs emptied prime systems and my wisdom here on the forums and exposure of the cash faucets of nullsec created fear and loathing among the nullsec aristocracy.

And I've barely been in a gang throughout my 10+ years of EvE Online.

How is the dog?

Evil RatKid
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#198 - 2015-07-14 06:21:44 UTC
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
What most people fail to understand is every MMO is a multiplayer game. It's technically impossible to solo in a MMO even when "soloing".

Take me for example. People suck, I hate them both in and out of game however even as a soloer my early piracy affected many, my helping in Help chan helped many, my war decs affected thousands, my creation of Privateers caused many to fear high sec and the changes to war decs in response to that changed the mechanics of the game. In later years my AFK Cloaking raids in alliance hubs emptied prime systems and my wisdom here on the forums and exposure of the cash faucets of nullsec created fear and loathing among the nullsec aristocracy.

And I've barely been in a gang throughout my 10+ years of EvE Online.

How is the dog?

dog

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#199 - 2015-07-14 06:38:57 UTC
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
What most people fail to understand is every MMO is a multiplayer game. It's technically impossible to solo in a MMO even when "soloing".

Take me for example. People suck, I hate them both in and out of game however even as a soloer my early piracy affected many, my helping in Help chan helped many, my war decs affected thousands, my creation of Privateers caused many to fear high sec and the changes to war decs in response to that changed the mechanics of the game. In later years my AFK Cloaking raids in alliance hubs emptied prime systems and my wisdom here on the forums and exposure of the cash faucets of nullsec created fear and loathing among the nullsec aristocracy.

And I've barely been in a gang throughout my 10+ years of EvE Online.

How is the dog?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57KDDKbfhmI

I'm in it for the money

Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12
Lan Wang
African Atomic.
Dreadnought Diplomacy.
#200 - 2015-07-14 07:43:21 UTC
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
What most people fail to understand is every MMO is a multiplayer game. It's technically impossible to solo in a MMO even when "soloing".

Take me for example. People suck, I hate them both in and out of game however even as a soloer my early piracy affected many, my helping in Help chan helped many, my war decs affected thousands, my creation of Privateers caused many to fear high sec and the changes to war decs in response to that changed the mechanics of the game. In later years my AFK Cloaking raids in alliance hubs emptied prime systems and my wisdom here on the forums and exposure of the cash faucets of nullsec created fear and loathing among the nullsec aristocracy.

And I've barely been in a gang throughout my 10+ years of EvE Online.

How is the dog?


Hi friend Big smile

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*