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Every MMO is first a solo game.

First post
Author
Hir Miriel
Elves In Space
#1 - 2015-07-12 23:53:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Hir Miriel
I'm concerned.

The foundation of every MMO is solo play.

But what tends to happen is people see Multiplayer and assume that everyone wants to form gangs.

It's absolutely not true.

We can see that echoed in this dev blog...

"We have never been particularly satisfied with how the majority of Sov upgrade PVE content tends to lean towards solo or multibox play. "

http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/summer-of-sov-nullsec-pve-and-upgrades/

~~~

What tends to happen next is that rewards for gangs (usually of five) gaming is overly rewarded, in a shabby attempt to get players to network and bring in their friends.

And the attempt fails because it denies player choice. It forces playstyle.

The only time the sandbox should be fully enclosed is for PvP.

People love fair fights. You can see that in the success of Starcraft and League of Legends etc. Even numbers and so on.

But making solo players become second class because they choose not to enjoy forced playstyles doesn't work. EVE Online will keep them, because they tend to be fantastically loyal, but it will reinforce a community division.

So if CCP decides to bring in "rewarding" group play, then we can expect forum wars over the topic. Because as CCP admit, people do like solo play, even if they have to multibox to do it.

That love of solo play is the same for every MMO.

So what might be best is to make sure every player can enjoy every aspect of the game solo, and perhaps with some sort of modular design allow that to escalate to groups, if players choose.

But hey, what do I know.

Although I will bet EVE goes with the tried and true, groups of five strangers PUG dungeon design. I wish them the success that the strategy deserves.

~ ~~ Thinking inside Schrodinger's sandbox. ~~ ~

Jenshae Chiroptera
#2 - 2015-07-13 00:00:34 UTC
The problem is solo players who are not making (enough) friends and quitting after a short time of playing and becoming bored.
There isn't much tempting them into team play in the paddling pool.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#3 - 2015-07-13 00:06:47 UTC  |  Edited by: DaReaper
CCP's own documents state if you solo play eve you are 80% likely to quit after 3 months. So whatever argument you state past that is utterly moot.

And by solo, they mean not join a corp and play alone.

Joining a corp increases you staying to something like 10% you will leave after 3 months.


EVE is not a solo game, and it should not be a solo game. That simple. You can chose to play it like a solo game, but you will have more fun, based on CCP's own statistics, if you join a corp then if you play alone. Giving more chances for corp and alliance play as a group is not a bad thing. Other mmo';s have this type of stuff in the form of raids.

And i did not read your post btw op.

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.

LazyDeer
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#4 - 2015-07-13 00:10:13 UTC
Almost everything in eve can be solo now? I don't understand your argument. Also fair fights just means you both are equally bad at playing the game. There will be no such thing as fair in a game that has tactics, counters, logistics, and variety to choose from.
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#5 - 2015-07-13 00:11:33 UTC
Hir Miriel wrote:

+snip+
That love of solo play is the same for every MMO.
*snip+

But hey, what do I know.
*snip*


Obviously nothing if you have not gotten it that eve is not like other mmo's. that's what makes it better.

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#6 - 2015-07-13 00:11:49 UTC
Hir Miriel wrote:

The foundation of every MMO is solo play.


The second M. Roll

You might be a special snowflake solo player, but don't make the mistake in assuming that everyone shares such a sentiment.

MMOs are by nature social, because they are in most cases objectively inferior single player games when weighed against an actual single player game. I'm not going to chew on Destiny for not having as much single player content as Fallout 3, because if I were, then I'd only be playing a portion of the game and weighing it against a full game.


Quote:

But making solo players become second class because they choose not to enjoy forced playstyles doesn't work.


What you're really asking for here is that numbers cease being a force multiplier, so you don't feel like you are making the wrong choice.

And that will never happen. Deal with it.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Harrison Tato
Yamato Holdings
#7 - 2015-07-13 00:31:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Harrison Tato
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:


MMOs are by nature social, because they are in most cases objectively inferior single player games when weighed against an actual single player game. I'm not going to chew on Destiny for not having as much single player content as Fallout 3, because if I were, then I'd only be playing a portion of the game and weighing it against a full game.



Over two years 99.8% solo player and loving it. You are all just slightly smarter belt rats to me.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#8 - 2015-07-13 00:38:54 UTC
Harrison Tato wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:


MMOs are by nature social, because they are in most cases objectively inferior single player games when weighed against an actual single player game. I'm not going to chew on Destiny for not having as much single player content as Fallout 3, because if I were, then I'd only be playing a portion of the game and weighing it against a full game.



Over two years 99.8% solo player and loving it. You are all just slightly smarter belt rats to me.


And my assertion is that people like you are outliers. I don't think you don't exist, I merely question the claim that people who expressly play multiplayer games with the intent of not using any multiplayer features are a significant group.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Jenshae Chiroptera
#9 - 2015-07-13 00:41:08 UTC
Harrison Tato wrote:
... Over two years 99.8% solo player and loving it. You are all just slightly smarter belt rats to me.
Crazy people talking to the AI and thinking they hear them talk back.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Harrison Tato
Yamato Holdings
#10 - 2015-07-13 00:42:05 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Harrison Tato wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:


MMOs are by nature social, because they are in most cases objectively inferior single player games when weighed against an actual single player game. I'm not going to chew on Destiny for not having as much single player content as Fallout 3, because if I were, then I'd only be playing a portion of the game and weighing it against a full game.



Over two years 99.8% solo player and loving it. You are all just slightly smarter belt rats to me.


And my assertion is that people like you are outliers. I don't think you don't exist, I merely question the claim that people who expressly play multiplayer games with the intent of not using any multiplayer features are a significant group.


You are correct. I would rather play a single player space game but there wasn't one available.
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
#11 - 2015-07-13 00:43:22 UTC
asteroids?
Harrison Tato
Yamato Holdings
#12 - 2015-07-13 00:45:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Harrison Tato
Benny Ohu wrote:
asteroids?



I do have a C-64 in the closet. Starflight is really what I would love to see be remade with modern technology.
Harrison Tato
Yamato Holdings
#13 - 2015-07-13 00:47:22 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Harrison Tato wrote:
... Over two years 99.8% solo player and loving it. You are all just slightly smarter belt rats to me.
Crazy people talking to the AI and thinking they hear them talk back.



Are your enemies on your teamspeak server too?
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
#14 - 2015-07-13 00:49:51 UTC
Harrison Tato wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:
asteroids?



I do have a C-64 in the closet. Starflight is really what I would love to see be remade with modern technology.

i had to google c-64 to learn what it was
Seven Koskanaiken
Shadow Legions.
Lord of Worlds Alliance
#15 - 2015-07-13 00:50:08 UTC
This is a long time overdue. I actually can't think of another MMO that disincentivizes group PVE more than EVE.
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#16 - 2015-07-13 00:51:17 UTC
Harrison Tato wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:


MMOs are by nature social, because they are in most cases objectively inferior single player games when weighed against an actual single player game. I'm not going to chew on Destiny for not having as much single player content as Fallout 3, because if I were, then I'd only be playing a portion of the game and weighing it against a full game.



Over two years 99.8% solo player and loving it. You are all just slightly smarter belt rats to me.



you are the 20% that stays after 3 months =)

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.

Harrison Tato
Yamato Holdings
#17 - 2015-07-13 00:53:23 UTC
DaReaper wrote:
Harrison Tato wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:


MMOs are by nature social, because they are in most cases objectively inferior single player games when weighed against an actual single player game. I'm not going to chew on Destiny for not having as much single player content as Fallout 3, because if I were, then I'd only be playing a portion of the game and weighing it against a full game.



Over two years 99.8% solo player and loving it. You are all just slightly smarter belt rats to me.



you are the 20% that stays after 3 months =)



So is my friend in our two man corp. We actually have two real people playing two characters and no alts.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2015-07-13 00:53:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Remiel Pollard
Hir Miriel wrote:


The foundation of every MMO is solo play.



The first misconception that leads to almost every other misconception about EVE Online - EVE is not every MMO. It is unique. It is, first and above all else, a PVP game. It was designed from the outset as one, has always been intended as one, and makes no bones about being anything but a PVP game. That is the whole reason PVE is so generic and repetitive, but also, even that which appears to be PVE is still PVP by virtue of it all taking place on a single-shard player-driven environment. Deny it, hate it, whatever, that's what EVE is, and what it was designed to be. The sooner you realise and accept this, the sooner you can figure out how to enjoy yourself playing it, no matter how you choose to do so.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104

Harrison Tato
Yamato Holdings
#19 - 2015-07-13 00:56:18 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Hir Miriel wrote:


The foundation of every MMO is solo play.



The first misconception that leads to almost every other misconception about EVE Online - EVE is not every MMO. It is unique. It is, first and above all else, a PVP game. It was designed from the outset as one, has always been intended as one, and makes no bones about being anything but a PVP game. That is the whole reason PVE is so generic and repetitive, but also, even that which appears to be PVE is still PVP by virtue of it all taking place on a single-shard player-driven environment. Deny it, hate it, whatever, that's what EVE is, and what it was designed to be. The sooner you realise and accept this, the sooner you can figure out how to enjoy yourself playing it, no matter how you choose to do so.



PVP and solo are not at odds.
Cancel Align NOW
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#20 - 2015-07-13 00:58:44 UTC
Harrison Tato wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:


MMOs are by nature social, because they are in most cases objectively inferior single player games when weighed against an actual single player game. I'm not going to chew on Destiny for not having as much single player content as Fallout 3, because if I were, then I'd only be playing a portion of the game and weighing it against a full game.



Over two years 99.8% solo player and loving it. You are all just slightly smarter belt rats to me.


I thought you enjoyed your time in BARES
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