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Every MMO is first a solo game.

First post
Author
Renegade Heart
Doomheim
#141 - 2015-07-13 15:42:48 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
I actually did a EN24 article on it.... etc.


Well if you were constantly aligned to a safespot, and zoomed out, you'd see the combat recons warping into your grid. It would be even easier to spot them if you marked unknowns with a special flashy colour. This would give you plenty of warning to hit the warp button, and would IMO be preferable to mashing dscan on other screens repeatedly! Hey what do I know though I am learning this stuff still Big smile

The issue with a covops hotdropping you would be the same in that case though. Cry

Dracvlad wrote:
so you have toons in D-scan range so you can mash that button to pick up cloakies


Still with switching between various toons, amongst shooting your rats, to hit dscan in the hope you can catch a cloaky jumping in before he recloaks is a lot of button mashing, with such a small window to catch them.

I'd consider ratting in an empty system, which you could reach via a WH or something. It would be 100% safer.
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#142 - 2015-07-13 15:52:04 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
DaReaper wrote:
CCP's own documents state if you solo play eve you are 80% likely to quit after 3 months. So whatever argument you state past that is utterly moot.

And by solo, they mean not join a corp and play alone.

Joining a corp increases you staying to something like 10% you will leave after 3 months.

EVE is not a solo game, and it should not be a solo game. That simple. You can chose to play it like a solo game, but you will have more fun, based on CCP's own statistics, if you join a corp then if you play alone. Giving more chances for corp and alliance play as a group is not a bad thing. Other mmo';s have this type of stuff in the form of raids.

And i did not read your post btw op.
*cough* bullshit.
That's not at all what they state. What they stated was that people who didn't interact with the game were more likely to quit, with things such as using the market classed as interacting with the game. Plenty of players play solo but interact with people through systems like the market and contracts and passive competition. This is the problem when CCP hand out stats, people misunderstand them then go running off down the road screaming absolute nonsense as if it's truth.

He's right in one sense that there's too much focus being given to single styles of play. In a sandbox people are supposed to play however they want. Taking content and forcing it to be played in one way is stripping the sandbox away, no matter what their reasoning.

EDIT: Don't get me wrong though, group PvE is needed, they just have to be pretty careful about how they weigh it in.


You do relaize that you and i are saying the exact same damn thing right? A solo player as in someone who doesn;t interact with anyone for any reason is 80% likely to leave eve vs someone who interacts with others. This doesn't mean you need ot join a corp, just more likley when people join corps they stay longer and have more fun. Not sure why you are calling bull **** when you actually agree with me.

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.

Renegade Heart
Doomheim
#143 - 2015-07-13 15:58:03 UTC
DaReaper wrote:
You do relaize that you and i are saying the exact same damn thing right? A solo player as in someone who doesn;t interact with anyone for any reason is 80% likely to leave eve vs someone who interacts with others. This doesn't mean you need ot join a corp, just more likley when people join corps they stay longer and have more fun. Not sure why you are calling bull **** when you actually agree with me.


I'll agree with that. Earlier I was being a bit pedantic.
Jenn aSide
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#144 - 2015-07-13 15:59:28 UTC
Renegade Heart wrote:
DaReaper wrote:
You do relaize that you and i are saying the exact same damn thing right? A solo player as in someone who doesn;t interact with anyone for any reason is 80% likely to leave eve vs someone who interacts with others. This doesn't mean you need ot join a corp, just more likley when people join corps they stay longer and have more fun. Not sure why you are calling bull **** when you actually agree with me.


I'll agree with that. Earlier I was being a bit pedantic.


Shallow and Pedantic!
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
#145 - 2015-07-13 16:01:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
Renegade Heart wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
I actually did a EN24 article on it.... etc.


Well if you were constantly aligned to a safespot, and zoomed out, you'd see the combat recons warping into your grid. It would be even easier to spot them if you marked unknowns with a special flashy colour. This would give you plenty of warning to hit the warp button, and would IMO be preferable to mashing dscan on other screens repeatedly! Hey what do I know though I am learning this stuff still Big smile

The issue with a covops hotdropping you would be the same in that case though. Cry

Dracvlad wrote:
so you have toons in D-scan range so you can mash that button to pick up cloakies


Still with switching between various toons, amongst shooting your rats, to hit dscan in the hope you can catch a cloaky jumping in before he recloaks is a lot of button mashing, with such a small window to catch them.

I'd consider ratting in an empty system, which you could reach via a WH or something. It would be 100% safer.


Learning to do this stuff is fun, being zoomed out is not always possible, what I was doing was twin boxing with one keeping teh range of another. I had to be mindful off the location of roids plus the safe spots, I was using scorch so was kiting leading them away, but at times would be in close once I lead them away from the belt, speed in killing them was vital in dealing with cloaky ships, especially if you had planned warp ins.

You have to think about the OGB impact on their warp disruptors, scrams and webs, also assume that they could equip a Curse with a Dark Blood Heavy neut. 75 km range.

It was a lot of D-scan mashing, but it was doable before, I could not get full coverage of course and that is an issue, but then I had no coverage against my enemies re-shipping into combat recons, so from being a clever player who was risk taking within limits to being completely in the dark

Often you do not have the luxury of operating in an empty system, so what do you do, cloak up, dock up, jump to another system or log off and use the hisec mission runner toon.

I am tempted to give it a go again, but it just annoys me that those lame players now have an instant I win, a curse with a Heavy Dark Blood neut was death for me...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Baaldor
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#146 - 2015-07-13 16:06:53 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:


I am tempted to give it a go again, but it just annoys me that those lame players now have an instant I win, a curse with a Heavy Dark Blood neut was death for me...


"Lame Players".......

Expand on this.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
#147 - 2015-07-13 16:17:21 UTC
Baaldor wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:


I am tempted to give it a go again, but it just annoys me that those lame players now have an instant I win, a curse with a Heavy Dark Blood neut was death for me...


"Lame Players".......

Expand on this.


Detailed earlier, basically the type who drop a twin cyno cloaky Legion with buffer tank and hope you think them AFK, who then after an hour of you moving next door jump in, and just keep doing that, that sort. You would not be my definition of a lame player, you do various stuff and are good at it. Using a Dark Blood Heavy neut fitted Curse is not in itself lame, I have one, but its just so damn powerful that this type of player will slip into it easily and negate their lameness.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Jenn aSide
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#148 - 2015-07-13 16:20:32 UTC
Baaldor wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:


I am tempted to give it a go again, but it just annoys me that those lame players now have an instant I win, a curse with a Heavy Dark Blood neut was death for me...


"Lame Players".......

Expand on this.


Allow me...

"Lame players" are players who, despite playing the game within it's rules, are players who play the game in such a way as to upset someone who, for some reason, thinks they should be left alone in an MMO. Even in null sec.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
#149 - 2015-07-13 16:29:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
Jenn aSide wrote:
Baaldor wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:


I am tempted to give it a go again, but it just annoys me that those lame players now have an instant I win, a curse with a Heavy Dark Blood neut was death for me...


"Lame Players".......

Expand on this.


Allow me...

"Lame players" are players who, despite playing the game within it's rules, are players who play the game in such a way as to upset someone who, for some reason, thinks they should be left alone in an MMO. Even in null sec.


There you go again Jenn, have I said that I want to be left alone, there I was detailing my approach of operating in systems with people after me, which is completely different to what you just tried to make me out to be, you could not help yourself could you, I just want to see it not be a cake walk for those lame players I detailed.

The content I want is to have group based PvE of a challenging nature in hisec, so that we can use the high SP and shiny ships that me and my mates have and have a laugh doing it even if its not good ISK. Hell I even said I would be happy with level 5 toughness with level 1 payouts. Fun for casual players that want a fun thing to do which is challenging, but does not force you to have to expose yourself to hot drop city by bored world of tank ping there is something to kill players.

EDIT: Actually in terms of the content I am asking for I guess I am asking to be not an easy kill for these people, of course they can come in and gank us, no issues with that...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat
#150 - 2015-07-13 16:30:36 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Baaldor wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:


I am tempted to give it a go again, but it just annoys me that those lame players now have an instant I win, a curse with a Heavy Dark Blood neut was death for me...


"Lame Players".......

Expand on this.


Detailed earlier, basically the type who drop a twin cyno cloaky Legion with buffer tank and hope you think them AFK, who then after an hour of you moving next door jump in, and just keep doing that, that sort. You would not be my definition of a lame player, you do various stuff and are good at it. Using a Dark Blood Heavy neut fitted Curse is not in itself lame, I have one, but its just so damn powerful that this type of player will slip into it easily and negate their lameness.


maybe the "lame player" thinks that the guy grinding isk 24/7 and does nothing but gobble up all the resources is actually a "lame player" but really who is right?

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
#151 - 2015-07-13 16:33:05 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Baaldor wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:


I am tempted to give it a go again, but it just annoys me that those lame players now have an instant I win, a curse with a Heavy Dark Blood neut was death for me...


"Lame Players".......

Expand on this.


Detailed earlier, basically the type who drop a twin cyno cloaky Legion with buffer tank and hope you think them AFK, who then after an hour of you moving next door jump in, and just keep doing that, that sort. You would not be my definition of a lame player, you do various stuff and are good at it. Using a Dark Blood Heavy neut fitted Curse is not in itself lame, I have one, but its just so damn powerful that this type of player will slip into it easily and negate their lameness.


maybe the "lame player" thinks that the guy grinding isk 24/7 and does nothing but gobble up all the resources is actually a "lame player" but really who is right?


Depends if you also do PvP as well, but when you get cloaky camped all that happens is your people just melt away and they the campers then moan about a lack of targets, well I never would have guessed, then they suggest that level 4's need to be nerfed, circular argument here we come...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Jenn aSide
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#152 - 2015-07-13 16:37:09 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Baaldor wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:


I am tempted to give it a go again, but it just annoys me that those lame players now have an instant I win, a curse with a Heavy Dark Blood neut was death for me...


"Lame Players".......

Expand on this.


Allow me...

"Lame players" are players who, despite playing the game within it's rules, are players who play the game in such a way as to upset someone who, for some reason, thinks they should be left alone in an MMO. Even in null sec.


There you go again Jenn, have I said that I want to be left alone, there I was detailing my approach of operating in systems with people after me, which is completely different to what you just tried to make me out to be, you could not help yourself could you, I just want to see it not be a cake walk for those lame players I detailed.

The content I want is to have group based PvE of a challenging nature in hisec, so that we can use the high SP and shiny ships that me and my mates have and have a laugh doing it even if its not good ISK. Hell I even said I would be happy with level 5 toughness with level 1 payouts. Fun for casual players that want a fun thing to do which is challenging, but does not force you to have to expose yourself to hot drop city by bored world of tank ping there is something to kill players.

EDIT: Actually in terms of the content I am asking for I guess I am asking to be not an easy kill for these people, of course they can come in and gank us, no issues with that...



We know all that, you want CCP to give you a place to hide, and are yourself hiding behind the 'casual player' tag.

Now look at your post, and see the bolded parts. The answer is yes, YOU JUST said you want to be left alone. You want CCP to make you some new content in high sec so that the people who wouldn't leave you alone in npc null have to leave you alone OR sacrifice a ship to CONCORD to get you.

That's the definition of wanting to be left alone, which is why what you want is illegitimate on it's face. No, you can't have new content you can run in bling fit ships protected by CONCORD just because you don't like the fact that other people can play how they want in the space where the content you want already exists.

If I an thousands of other players can deal with the unwanted attentions of other players who have just as much freedom as we do, you can too, or you can go to the safety of high sec and run lvl 4 missions and Scout Incursions with your friends. You cannot have both.
Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat
#153 - 2015-07-13 16:41:53 UTC
interesting content = bastion up in the middle of nullsec then a local spike, nothing more interesting than that Cool

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#154 - 2015-07-13 16:51:21 UTC
DaReaper wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
DaReaper wrote:
CCP's own documents state if you solo play eve you are 80% likely to quit after 3 months. So whatever argument you state past that is utterly moot.

And by solo, they mean not join a corp and play alone.

Joining a corp increases you staying to something like 10% you will leave after 3 months.

EVE is not a solo game, and it should not be a solo game. That simple. You can chose to play it like a solo game, but you will have more fun, based on CCP's own statistics, if you join a corp then if you play alone. Giving more chances for corp and alliance play as a group is not a bad thing. Other mmo';s have this type of stuff in the form of raids.

And i did not read your post btw op.
*cough* bullshit.
That's not at all what they state. What they stated was that people who didn't interact with the game were more likely to quit, with things such as using the market classed as interacting with the game. Plenty of players play solo but interact with people through systems like the market and contracts and passive competition. This is the problem when CCP hand out stats, people misunderstand them then go running off down the road screaming absolute nonsense as if it's truth.

He's right in one sense that there's too much focus being given to single styles of play. In a sandbox people are supposed to play however they want. Taking content and forcing it to be played in one way is stripping the sandbox away, no matter what their reasoning.

EDIT: Don't get me wrong though, group PvE is needed, they just have to be pretty careful about how they weigh it in.
You do relaize that you and i are saying the exact same damn thing right? A solo player as in someone who doesn;t interact with anyone for any reason is 80% likely to leave eve vs someone who interacts with others. This doesn't mean you need ot join a corp, just more likley when people join corps they stay longer and have more fun. Not sure why you are calling bull **** when you actually agree with me.
We're not saying the same thing, since you are extending the definitions given by CCP in those stats. The people they were talking about who quit were people who had basically zero interaction with players, even passively. Someone in an NPC corp who chooses to mission and mine alone but frequently buys and sells stuff on the market is not in this category, yet you've clearly stated that's what you believe it was saying. I highlighted that for you above.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Baaldor
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#155 - 2015-07-13 17:07:25 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
DaReaper wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
DaReaper wrote:
CCP's own documents state if you solo play eve you are 80% likely to quit after 3 months. So whatever argument you state past that is utterly moot.

And by solo, they mean not join a corp and play alone.

Joining a corp increases you staying to something like 10% you will leave after 3 months.

EVE is not a solo game, and it should not be a solo game. That simple. You can chose to play it like a solo game, but you will have more fun, based on CCP's own statistics, if you join a corp then if you play alone. Giving more chances for corp and alliance play as a group is not a bad thing. Other mmo';s have this type of stuff in the form of raids.

And i did not read your post btw op.
*cough* bullshit.
That's not at all what they state. What they stated was that people who didn't interact with the game were more likely to quit, with things such as using the market classed as interacting with the game. Plenty of players play solo but interact with people through systems like the market and contracts and passive competition. This is the problem when CCP hand out stats, people misunderstand them then go running off down the road screaming absolute nonsense as if it's truth.

He's right in one sense that there's too much focus being given to single styles of play. In a sandbox people are supposed to play however they want. Taking content and forcing it to be played in one way is stripping the sandbox away, no matter what their reasoning.

EDIT: Don't get me wrong though, group PvE is needed, they just have to be pretty careful about how they weigh it in.
You do relaize that you and i are saying the exact same damn thing right? A solo player as in someone who doesn;t interact with anyone for any reason is 80% likely to leave eve vs someone who interacts with others. This doesn't mean you need ot join a corp, just more likley when people join corps they stay longer and have more fun. Not sure why you are calling bull **** when you actually agree with me.
We're not saying the same thing, since you are extending the definitions given by CCP in those stats. The people they were talking about who quit were people who had basically zero interaction with players, even passively. Someone in an NPC corp who chooses to mission and mine alone but frequently buys and sells stuff on the market is not in this category, yet you've clearly stated that's what you believe it was saying. I highlighted that for you above.


So, basically the Tl;Dr

The socially challenged have very short life spans with EvE.
Angelica Dreamstar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#156 - 2015-07-13 17:09:41 UTC
Baaldor wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
DaReaper wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
DaReaper wrote:
CCP's own documents state if you solo play eve you are 80% likely to quit after 3 months. So whatever argument you state past that is utterly moot.

And by solo, they mean not join a corp and play alone.

Joining a corp increases you staying to something like 10% you will leave after 3 months.

EVE is not a solo game, and it should not be a solo game. That simple. You can chose to play it like a solo game, but you will have more fun, based on CCP's own statistics, if you join a corp then if you play alone. Giving more chances for corp and alliance play as a group is not a bad thing. Other mmo';s have this type of stuff in the form of raids.

And i did not read your post btw op.
*cough* bullshit.
That's not at all what they state. What they stated was that people who didn't interact with the game were more likely to quit, with things such as using the market classed as interacting with the game. Plenty of players play solo but interact with people through systems like the market and contracts and passive competition. This is the problem when CCP hand out stats, people misunderstand them then go running off down the road screaming absolute nonsense as if it's truth.

He's right in one sense that there's too much focus being given to single styles of play. In a sandbox people are supposed to play however they want. Taking content and forcing it to be played in one way is stripping the sandbox away, no matter what their reasoning.

EDIT: Don't get me wrong though, group PvE is needed, they just have to be pretty careful about how they weigh it in.
You do relaize that you and i are saying the exact same damn thing right? A solo player as in someone who doesn;t interact with anyone for any reason is 80% likely to leave eve vs someone who interacts with others. This doesn't mean you need ot join a corp, just more likley when people join corps they stay longer and have more fun. Not sure why you are calling bull **** when you actually agree with me.
We're not saying the same thing, since you are extending the definitions given by CCP in those stats. The people they were talking about who quit were people who had basically zero interaction with players, even passively. Someone in an NPC corp who chooses to mission and mine alone but frequently buys and sells stuff on the market is not in this category, yet you've clearly stated that's what you believe it was saying. I highlighted that for you above.


So, basically the Tl;Dr

The socially challenged have very short life spans with EvE.

The challenged ones can learn, though, so that's not quite accurate.

bingo, his pig not being a goat doesn't make the pig wrong, just him an idiot for shouting at his pig "WHY ARENT YOU A GOAT!" (Source)

-- Ralph King-Griffin, about deranged people playing EVE ONLINE

Lex Gabinia
Res Repetundae
#157 - 2015-07-13 17:11:02 UTC
Divine Entervention wrote:


Large portion of gamers these days are brought up on the Medal of Honor series. Where it's essentially one guy, you, Rambo-ing it up through thousands of enemies. This leads to a delusion that you're special, when you're not. You get online and play against other people and naturally you cling onto whatever excuse you can find to keep your mental equilibrium in cheque to not have to come face to face with the cold harsh reality: You're average.


#thebest


I once thought I was good at MoH then I played a bit of multiplayer. I can confirm I was average (at best). This experience is not bad if one learns from it and improves. You have this learning opportunity in EVE everyday. Think if it as a positive.
Jenn aSide
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#158 - 2015-07-13 17:19:51 UTC
Lex Gabinia wrote:
Divine Entervention wrote:


Large portion of gamers these days are brought up on the Medal of Honor series. Where it's essentially one guy, you, Rambo-ing it up through thousands of enemies. This leads to a delusion that you're special, when you're not. You get online and play against other people and naturally you cling onto whatever excuse you can find to keep your mental equilibrium in cheque to not have to come face to face with the cold harsh reality: You're average.


#thebest


I once thought I was good at MoH then I played a bit of multiplayer. I can confirm I was average (at best). This experience is not bad if one learns from it and improves. You have this learning opportunity in EVE everyday. Think of it as a positive.


This is true. problem is that many people don't want to learn, they want to win, and if they can't win right off the bat, they don't want to play at all. The best thing about EVE (that, except for some useless lore, it does not treat you like a hero, it treats you like an adult who has to EARN victory) is also the thing that will forever keep EVE small.

People don't want the fundamental thing EVE offers, which isn't spaceships, but rather a socially challenging environment that strips you of your grand notions about yourself.


Side note, is anyone else feeling cold in their feet area...as if hell is freezing over? I do, because I've now seen TWO Divine Entervention posts that didn't contain psychopathic insanity. F'ck it. ima go see my psychiatrist, something ain't right here.


Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
#159 - 2015-07-13 17:22:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
Jenn aSide wrote:
If I an thousands of other players can deal with the unwanted attentions of other players who have just as much freedom as we do, you can too, or you can go to the safety of high sec and run lvl 4 missions and Scout Incursions with your friends. You cannot have both.


Then numbers of casual players will continue to decline, you are not a casual player, I am except when I decide to be a pain in the butt for someone. The issue is that we have a large segment of players in this game that mainly play other games until they have a chance to kill someone doing something in Eve, they then do that and then log out again. Ping ping ping...

As for me the decline in numbers means that the small gang stuff in sub-caps may be possible again in certain areas, I am watching these areas very carefully, if it continues like this then I will be having some fun in null again, but as for doing PvE its only empty system time now if I do.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Harrison Tato
Yamato Holdings
#160 - 2015-07-13 18:19:59 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Harrison Tato wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:


MMOs are by nature social, because they are in most cases objectively inferior single player games when weighed against an actual single player game. I'm not going to chew on Destiny for not having as much single player content as Fallout 3, because if I were, then I'd only be playing a portion of the game and weighing it against a full game.



Over two years 99.8% solo player and loving it. You are all just slightly smarter belt rats to me.


Yes because your own personal anecdote supersedes all the data CCP has.

I think we all know which person is as smart as a belt rat....well, except you. Roll


Touched a nerve there did I. I said slightly smarter!