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Every MMO is first a solo game.

First post
Author
Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat
#221 - 2015-07-14 10:13:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Lan Wang
Infinity Ziona wrote:
There is a place for both solo and group play. Creating a balance between the two is very difficult but it's doable. It'll always be harder to solo that's a given - problem is CCP set on to make it literally suicidal.

Two Lokis vs 1 Loki is naturally tough to beat if you're the lone Loki but when you factor in links given 30% more boosts for each of the two it becomes ridiculously tough.

You can have every skill trained to 5 in mind linking but unless you have some alt in a gang in system it does jack.

One prime example of how the mechanics are designed to nerf solo players against 2 or more combatants when solo vs 2 or more is already naturally hard.


i once witnessed while i was sitting 150km of the gate of a faction warfare plex, a black legion player roflstomping a fleet of 5 t1/t2 frigates and a griffin in his solo tristan, it was actually an awesome sight to see

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Lady Areola Fappington
#222 - 2015-07-14 10:14:34 UTC
flakeys wrote:


Uhm no , every mmorpg is in it's foundation a multiplayer game WITH the ability to play solo too in most cases.


That said i do prefer my playstyle to not swing either way but to do one playstyle after the other for X months .Both styles can be quite enjoying for a while.Downside of soloplay is it can get boring and you can get blobbed easily ,downside of multiplay people can get boring/annoying and you tend to blob easily.



I've always felt people who were explicitly "antisocial" solo players to be kind of silly. I mean, compared to a game that's built to be a SP experience, a MMOG is going to fall short in a LOT of different areas.

I get the idea of playing the game and engaging in the social aspects (chitchatting, hanging out with others) while playing solo content...that's just a different form of multiplayer in itself. Actively rejecting any player interaction though.....

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide

flakeys
Doomheim
#223 - 2015-07-14 10:18:35 UTC
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
flakeys wrote:


Uhm no , every mmorpg is in it's foundation a multiplayer game WITH the ability to play solo too in most cases.


That said i do prefer my playstyle to not swing either way but to do one playstyle after the other for X months .Both styles can be quite enjoying for a while.Downside of soloplay is it can get boring and you can get blobbed easily ,downside of multiplay people can get boring/annoying and you tend to blob easily.



I've always felt people who were explicitly "antisocial" solo players to be kind of silly. I mean, compared to a game that's built to be a SP experience, a MMOG is going to fall short in a LOT of different areas.

I get the idea of playing the game and engaging in the social aspects (chitchatting, hanging out with others) while playing solo content...that's just a different form of multiplayer in itself. Actively rejecting any player interaction though.....



I doubt anyone playing an mmorpg has no social contacts what so ever in that game.I'm not going to bet any money on it though , it's crazy world out there after all Lol.

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.

Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
CODE.
#224 - 2015-07-14 10:38:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Ima Wreckyou
Dracvlad wrote:
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
The Star Citizen event was simply I came across 10 ex-eve players 9 of them had been ganked in mining ships and had left the game due to the inadequate protection these ships had.
Dracvlad wrote:
All I can say is that the Skiff rocks and that is why you often see CODE players complaining about it.

So can you make up your mind please? Is there a problem with the mining ships or where this players bad at the game and cried and quit without even exploring their in-game options?


That was before they made the change so you could actually jump into a ship with a tank, your reading and comprehension skills fail, notice that I did say that the best tanked Exhumer could be taken out by a single destroyer in a 1.0 system and the pilot podded too, that was the period I referred to. wow are you that bad on Eve balance history...

Does not look like the change prevented your kind from crying for more changes. So can we revert it?

EDIT:
I am glad Dracvlad finally made this into a thread about CODE.
Beanhead2
The Bean Consortium
#225 - 2015-07-14 10:48:17 UTC
I play solo alot but Eve is unlike other MMOs. You can not avoid other players and I don't want to. I just enjoy being independent and not relying on other players to do stuff for me. New players who want to play in this way should just join a corp that allows the player this level of independence because even when you fly solo friends and contacts are very important in Eve. I suppose what I am saying is that you can be independent in Eve if that is what you want to do, but also take advantage of the corp system to help you up the learning cliff.

Fly safe...ish
Black Pedro
Mine.
#226 - 2015-07-14 10:59:57 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
There is a place for both solo and group play. Creating a balance between the two is very difficult but it's doable. It'll always be harder to solo that's a given - problem is CCP set on to make it literally suicidal.

Two Lokis vs 1 Loki is naturally tough to beat if you're the lone Loki but when you factor in links given 30% more boosts for each of the two it becomes ridiculously tough.

You can have every skill trained to 5 in mind linking but unless you have some alt in a gang in system it does jack.

One prime example of how the mechanics are designed to nerf solo players against 2 or more combatants when solo vs 2 or more is already naturally hard.
Is it really doable?

In any situation I can think of, all other things being equal, the side with more players will have an advantage. Numbers of course aren't the only think that will determine the outcome of a fight, but it is a significant contributor. This is a good thing as it allows new players to have a chance against a 10-year old veteran by grouping up which provides risk for everyone, no matter how much ISK or SP they have.

CCP cannot balance this (nor should they try) in an open-world sandbox game like they have created. Solo players are always going to be at a disadvantage, and no matter what they do are subject to being "countered" by their opponent just calling in some friends.

That's Eve though. CCP is not "nerfing" solo players - this is just the fact of creating a open-world sandbox game. There is no sense in complaining about it more than there is about complaining that the sky is blue.



Lady Areola Fappington
#227 - 2015-07-14 11:02:00 UTC
Beanhead2 wrote:
I play solo alot but Eve is unlike other MMOs. You can not avoid other players and I don't want to. I just enjoy being independent and not relying on other players to do stuff for me. New players who want to play in this way should just join a corp that allows the player this level of independence because even when you fly solo friends and contacts are very important in Eve. I suppose what I am saying is that you can be independent in Eve if that is what you want to do, but also take advantage of the corp system to help you up the learning cliff.

Fly safe...ish



That's totally cool. There's a huge difference between "I'm forging my own path, but I'm aware that other people can try to interfere with me", and "I just want to solo play without anyone bothering me!".

The first way is admittedly a difficult challenge in Eve, but doable. It's still basically playing "multiplayer" in the MMOG world. It's only when you get into demanding that CCP prevent others from being able to bother you, that you get the carebear label.

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide

Angelica Dreamstar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#228 - 2015-07-14 11:08:40 UTC
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
The Star Citizen event was simply I came across 10 ex-eve players 9 of them had been ganked in mining ships and had left the game due to the inadequate protection these ships had.
Dracvlad wrote:
All I can say is that the Skiff rocks and that is why you often see CODE players complaining about it.

So can you make up your mind please? Is there a problem with the mining ships or where this players bad at the game and cried and quit without even exploring their in-game options?

Lol Skiffs. What a waste of time.

bingo, his pig not being a goat doesn't make the pig wrong, just him an idiot for shouting at his pig "WHY ARENT YOU A GOAT!" (Source)

-- Ralph King-Griffin, about deranged people playing EVE ONLINE

Avvy
Doomheim
#229 - 2015-07-14 11:43:00 UTC
Hir Miriel wrote:


The foundation of every MMO is solo play.



I disagree with that.

The foundation of every MMO is group play.



What's happened is the number of solo players has grown over the years and expect solo content to be accessible to them even to the point where some think that group content in some form should be solo able.


Probably many reasons for why the numbers of solo players have increased in MMOs.

Solo players like to play MMOs because other players are also there and other players mean that things can happen that are unpredictable. Plus they may just like having others around even if they only casually interact with them.

Some group players have become solo players, often through bad experiences whilst in groups.

Others solo because they don't want to sign-up to player websites or give too much information out about themselves. As a lot of groups (Corps/guilds) often want too much info and expect too much.

Others solo because they feel they have limited playing time and can't really commit to a group.

Others feel that if they join a group they probably won't be able to play the way they want to.

I'm sure there's also other reasons.



Companies do realise that there are a lot of players that will remain solo and try to encourage group play via better group rewards. The problem is with this approach is that solo players can see this as the company trying to coerce them into joining groups and resent this fact.


ISD Decoy
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
#230 - 2015-07-14 11:47:14 UTC
I have removed some troll posts and ones quoting them.

Quote:
5. Trolling is prohibited.

Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive, and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote

ISD Decoy

Captain

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat
#231 - 2015-07-14 11:48:41 UTC
ISD Decoy wrote:
I have removed some troll posts and ones quoting them.

Quote:
5. Trolling is prohibited.

Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive, and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote


that makes me sad :(

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Norrin Ellis
Doomheim
#232 - 2015-07-14 11:53:08 UTC
The entire reason EVE makes things group-friendly, or group-dependent, is to create an incentive for solo players to pay for lots of accounts.

Everyone in EVE knows that the community collectively jizzes its pants every time someone gets truly screwed by a trusted friend, so there's big incentive to trust no one.

The solution to the problems of both needing a group and not being able to trust the average EVE player is multiboxing.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
#233 - 2015-07-14 12:33:22 UTC
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
The Star Citizen event was simply I came across 10 ex-eve players 9 of them had been ganked in mining ships and had left the game due to the inadequate protection these ships had.
Dracvlad wrote:
All I can say is that the Skiff rocks and that is why you often see CODE players complaining about it.

So can you make up your mind please? Is there a problem with the mining ships or where this players bad at the game and cried and quit without even exploring their in-game options?


That was before they made the change so you could actually jump into a ship with a tank, your reading and comprehension skills fail, notice that I did say that the best tanked Exhumer could be taken out by a single destroyer in a 1.0 system and the pilot podded too, that was the period I referred to. wow are you that bad on Eve balance history...

Does not look like the change prevented your kind from crying for more changes. So can we revert it?

EDIT:
I am glad Dracvlad finally made this into a thread about CODE.


Well mining is at the start of the game is solo gameplay, which you people have targetted because you find it silly.

Now that the Skiff exists and people still use the other ships then I am not bothered so much at them dying as there is an alternative.

But CODE is basically after solo players who start off mining because you find it silly, seems silly to me...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Jenn aSide
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#234 - 2015-07-14 12:39:47 UTC
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
I have played pretty much solo for my eight years in the game.

I accept the limits this imposes on me, but it my choice, no one forces me to play solo.

Team working takes a lot of effort and is justly rewarded.


I just liked a Josef Djugashvilis for the second time in history.

Do NONE of you care about my feet? Damn they are cold, someone go fix the Hell furnace. Twisted
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#235 - 2015-07-14 13:07:04 UTC
Ima Wreckyou wrote:

EDIT:
I am glad Dracvlad finally made this into a thread about CODE.


I know, right? I for one delight in the fact that he can't help giving us so much attention.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Lady Areola Fappington
#236 - 2015-07-14 13:18:31 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Ima Wreckyou wrote:

EDIT:
I am glad Dracvlad finally made this into a thread about CODE.


I know, right? I for one delight in the fact that he can't help giving us so much attention.



CODE really is the end-boss of Eve.

It's the only organization I know that somehow manages to pull off having an utterly minimal impact on the game world, yet is seconds from destroying everything there is about Eve.

According to the critics, their chosen playstyle needs nerfed into the ground, but never seems to influence the people calling for nerfs.

Total PVP scrubs who can't destroy anything, yet need to be banned for the amount of havoc they cause blowing up spaceships.


Cognitive dissonance is a helluva thing to see in action.

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide

Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat
#237 - 2015-07-14 13:23:27 UTC
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
It's the only organization I know that somehow manages to pull off having an utterly minimal impact on the game world, yet is seconds from destroying everything there is about Eve.


are you implying "eve" is about pve?

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
CODE.
#238 - 2015-07-14 13:24:49 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:

Well mining is at the start of the game is solo gameplay, which you people have targetted because you find it silly.

Now that the Skiff exists and people still use the other ships then I am not bothered so much at them dying as there is an alternative.

But CODE is basically after solo players who start off mining because you find it silly, seems silly to me...

Yeah I know, all this 5 year old newbros mining away in highsec. We are just after the new players!!!11!
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#239 - 2015-07-14 13:25:40 UTC
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:

Well mining is at the start of the game is solo gameplay, which you people have targetted because you find it silly.

Now that the Skiff exists and people still use the other ships then I am not bothered so much at them dying as there is an alternative.

But CODE is basically after solo players who start off mining because you find it silly, seems silly to me...

Yeah I know, all this 5 year old newbros mining away in highsec. We are just after the new players!!!11!


And all those new players flying freighters (capital ships). Poor newbies.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
CODE.
#240 - 2015-07-14 13:25:58 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
ISD Decoy wrote:
I have removed some troll posts and ones quoting them.

Quote:
5. Trolling is prohibited.

Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive, and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote


that makes me sad :(

Did he really? ... I have tears in my eyes CryCryCry