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I haven't done the maths either but if you are thinking of running a small POS just for compression then I think you may make a loss with the POS fuel costs. It does sound like if you have max skills and the 4% hardwiring you won't be far off where we are now on refining.

It is still the case though that the current proposal gives mission runners who do spreadsheets and collect all the loot will get a kick in the pants.

Also we will have to wait and see if the current proposals go through, and what over changes get announced, will do to the status quo. Currently the majority are saying compression will be the favoured route of transporting minerals from high to low & null sec. But it may be that mining in 'deep blue' in nullsec, given the 20% increase in refinery yield, will be the favoured option.

I hope not...as true creative thinking is one of the very first skills you loose there!

The difference is you need absolutely no skills at a pos. None at all.

a max skill char or a no skill char refine at a POS at an additional 2.9% more than a station max refine....

I'd really appreciate some form of "hey there! rest assured that we still actively monitor this thread" response in here - after a bit more than 40 pages and eight days of blue tagged silence.

Not really, this thread has remained pretty civil considering the impact these pandering changes will have on so many.

The real issue here - like a few other recent changes it seems, CCP has already made the decision that is the most suitable for them and a minority group and everyone else in eve has to adapt and put up with it;

For me, this quote pretty much sums up CCP's attitude to what players want when compared to what devs want.


Reworded to suit upcoming changes, I imagine it would read something like;
Obviously these changes won't be everyone's cup of tea. Not every change in the game will suit the majority but there is a minority in Nulsec who will be very happy.
For everyone else, change the way you have been playing the game for years. Train 110+ days to specialize only to be outperformed by a no skills required pos module. Accept yet another cut in mission income.We acknowledge the new mobile tractor units are now pretty much redundant but use them anyway so you can end up with thousands of m3 of useless modules and FOF/Defender missiles (which used to make you a profit but are now little more than "Trash")
For everyone else, eve is a sandbox game and you can play it any way you choose, (until Devs decide to take it away from you)


As plenty has never been quantified, my guess is - more than 10 less than 1000. Out of 500k+ subscribers.

Honestly i think this is a fricking joke.... CCP is always nerfing **** to compensate for the newer players while leaving the older players out in the dark on alot of things. That lvl 5 skilling nullified by a nerf. This does go against that to some degree but it also nulifies alot of the changes made to ores in null sec. in the end it will cancel eachother out and put **** right back to the way it was.... FAIL CCP .... COME BACK WHEN YOU ARE WORTHY... Ohhh and supers will get alot more expensive.... Ratt loot wont produce as much mins if your a builder... And it dont matter where you are... this is CCPS fix to thier overcompensating for the NULL sec ore changes....

Never give a ****** a Potato gun your just asking for trouble...

Disclaimer: I have read the first 30+ pages of this thread only so far, so my apologies if I'm just repeating something that got posted in the next 50+ pages...


I very much agree.

Giving an advantage to nullsec by easing requirements for perfect refine that otherwise apply to hisec refiners (NPC standings, perfect skills, implant) sounds like just enough. You would be able to achieve "perfect" refine anywhere (hi/low/null), but the higher the sec status, the harder you would have to work for it.

I believe the notion of a maxxed-out character getting better yield in a nullsec refinery than in a hisec refinery is nonsensical. Yes, there probably should be a price for the relative safety of the hisec (see above - NPC standings, better skills & implant needed), but otherwise, why should the output be different? It's not like nullsec lacks benefits balancing the generally greater risks (better loot, better ores, better anoms...). And it's not like slightly better refining yields will encourage more mining in nullsec, it would just encourage hauling compressed ore (rather than refined minerals) from hisec to nullsec, which I hardly find desirable (if for nothing else, then for the sake of immersion).

Note: there still is a requirement that could be made a bit harder on hisec refiners - the NPC standings. Currently, all you need is 6.67 with an NPC corp - this could easily get changed so that "We like you so much that we will refine your ore for free." only happens at 9.0, 9.5 or something like that.

For the sake of simplicity and clarity, I would suggest that "perfect" refine stays at 100% (although you would have to meet different requirements to achieve that in different security zones) - there would be no need to change the ore yields then (other than for the sake of making all batch sizes equal, which is a change I support).


As for the changes affecting scrapmetal processing... I don't think I see the need for a change that heavy. I kinda agree there should be a cost associated with converting finished goods back to minerals, but definitely not 45%... 5%-10% sounds perfectly reasonable. Sure, moving minerals around as 425mm railguns is just plain weird and it would be nice if that got fixed somehow, but certainly not by reducing the scrapmetal processing output from 100% to 55%, which heavily affects salvagers.

How about introducing a new jump freighter with an extremely large mineral bay (akin to Kryos) that would make it unnecessary to convert minerals to 425mm railguns? Or how about, gasp, introducing proper mineral compression (akin to the ore compression we already have)? Those solutions seem much cleaner to me, while not affecting current salvagers.

The proposed "solution" of hauling compressed ore to nullsec refineries is just pure nonsense from the immersion point of view (just like the general notion of nullsec refineries being able to refine better than hisec ones).


And a crazy idea to end my post with (I have no idea what I am talking about here):

How about allowing the Rorqual to function as a mobile ore refinery? Consuming fuel (just like ore compression does), perhaps less than 100% efficient, perhaps needing special mods to process individual ore types, but capable of refining ore on-site... would that be too much to make it attractive?

Your still at it. Has your opinion on the PoS modules changed with concerns to skill requirements?

What about compression needing skill requirements?

No module should nullify millions of SP of skills, because "of the old PoS code"... or I need guns that require no gun skills and are better than a fully skilled gunner (or take any other example you can imagine).

If that disregard of the refiners that invested heavily in refining is a stop-gap solution before the new PoS code coming this summer or winter, then it is acceptable... but if CCP kills 5M+ SP from a part of their playerbase for years to come (PoS code has been in the pipes for years, now), then they have to change that NoSkill Reprocessing PoS Module to much lower refining values.

Or refund the SPs spend in those skills (but leave the skills at 0)... I don't care what they decide but many players have invested more SP in those skills than in the old Learning Skills, which got refunded when they became obsolete.

The only refiners winning here are those in null, with a Minmattar Station... and it's not the majority of the players with refining skills.

Other than that, have CCP work on he Capital Industrials and the T2 transports (and a crapload of T2 ships that are waiting for their review)

And have CCP answer on that thread, wih an acceptable answer or timeline.

p.s.: if CCP wants to give that PoS module, they can make it a deployable (it will be offline in most cases, anyway) that will take the skills into account, and they provide the function they want to cater without hurting part of their playerbase.