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Dev Blog: Reprocess all the things!

First post First post First post
Author
Darkblad
Doomheim
#2101 - 2014-07-12 18:52:45 UTC
Your temper is doing you no good.
And being no alt of a nullsec block/whatever member I join in to tell you:

come to realize that highsec is not to be intended to be a source of great wealth and prosperity for those who don't want to face no real risks.

NPEISDRIP

Gulmuk
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2102 - 2014-07-13 05:41:13 UTC
Darkblad wrote:
Your temper is doing you no good.
And being no alt of a nullsec block/whatever member I join in to tell you:

come to realize that highsec is not to be intended to be a source of great wealth and prosperity for those who don't want to face no real risks.



Apparently you don't realize there is risk EVERYWHERE in EVE. The miners face risk of ganking everyday. Granted the risk is low if proper precautions are taken, but it's there. Freighters get ganked everyday as well. So a miner might spend 2-3 days mining enough ore to fill a freighter only to have a group of guys looking for a bit of fun come along and pop it for sh*ts.

No there is real risk in high sec. Besides, who said I was trying to get rich? I just want to survive and not take a loss every day. Whether or not you are part of a corp, mining works in regards to risk/reward ratio. That's the way it should be. The lower the risk the lower the reward. No need to reduce it any further.

I guess you don't have to worry about any new miners starting out in EVE. They won't last past a couple weeks.
Darkblad
Doomheim
#2103 - 2014-07-13 08:27:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Darkblad
Gulmuk wrote:
Darkblad wrote:
Your temper is doing you no good.
And being no alt of a nullsec block/whatever member I join in to tell you:

come to realize that highsec is not to be intended to be a source of great wealth and prosperity for those who don't want to face no real risks.



Apparently you don't realize there is risk EVERYWHERE in EVE. The miners face risk of ganking everyday. Granted the risk is low if proper precautions are taken, but it's there. Freighters get ganked everyday as well. So a miner might spend 2-3 days mining enough ore to fill a freighter only to have a group of guys looking for a bit of fun come along and pop it for sh*ts.

No there is real risk in high sec. Besides, who said I was trying to get rich? I just want to survive and not take a loss every day. Whether or not you are part of a corp, mining works in regards to risk/reward ratio. That's the way it should be. The lower the risk the lower the reward. No need to reduce it any further.

I guess you don't have to worry about any new miners starting out in EVE. They won't last past a couple weeks.
Adapt or die and find your place to avoid high (gank)traffic systems

NPEISDRIP

ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
#2104 - 2014-07-13 16:50:29 UTC
I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them. As always I let some edge cases stay.
Please people, keep it on topic and above all civil!

The Rules:
4. Personal attacks are prohibited.

Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not beneficial to the community spirit that CCP promote and as such they will not be tolerated.

ISD Ezwal Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Hakuuna Matata
Data Core Inc.
#2105 - 2014-07-20 14:56:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Hakuuna Matata
I'm glad the thread has degenerated to it's present level... Always nice to know we love each other like a real family.

Anyway, I haven been able to read the full thread as it grows faster than I can read. Good thing, folks are interested. But one thing has struck me, moost (read: allmost all) responders here are looking at this from the industrial point of vieuw. And they think it's great...

But from the mission runner point of vieuw this, well, to be honest, sucks.

I do see CCP's point that reprocessing as is needs fixing. But you are going to put a serious cramp on mission income. Miners get compensated with richer ore, manufacturers will adjust prices as neccessary (which will prolly be up) and they get new and better interfaces/toys. So what is in all this for me? Less return on loot and rising prices for the stuff I need...

So tell me CCP, what have mission runners ever done to **** you off like that? Because this is the second hit in so many expansions. (For those of you unclear of the last remark: the new way of warping, be it great for PvP and realistic and, well etc, has hurt the care bears flying BS's and Marauders in missions. It takes considerably longer to get to and back from your mission.)

Just wondering,

Hak
Ramcath
Boulder Shoulders Industries
#2106 - 2014-07-22 22:23:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Ramcath
****
I have reposted this in a new thread under general discussion. I would prefer responses to be posted on that thread. I don't want to make multiple threads but rather than delete this one just want to direct people to the new thread for more discussion.

New thread: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4831467#post4831467

Okay, so the new update for Crius is here and I've read the updates about reprocessing. I have read the charts as well, and here is where I begin to have a problem. I understand the new methods, and don't have an overall problem with the reduction in percentages for yield, because I do understand that the same amounts of materials will result from before, it just looks different.

The problem for me begins thusly:

1. The chart that is given in the Dev post states the different percentages based on skill level, reprocessing, reprocessing efficiency, and the +4 implant. This chart says that if you have all of these things in place then your yield will be 72.4%. Okay, I understand this, no problem. However...

2. My current skills based on the chart do not show correctly when I go to reprocess ore. It says that my % of reprocessing is 68%. Here's what I see when I took out some pyroxeres and tried to reprocess them in the Tash Murkon Family station in Tash Murkon Prime. It says:

Base yield: 50%
x1.15% bonus from Reprocessing (positive in green)
x1.1% bonus from Reprocessing Efficiency (positive in green)
x1.08% bonus from Ore Processing skills average(positive in green)
x1.04% bonus from Zainou Beancounter Reprocessing RX-804 (positive in green)
x1.0% reduction from station owner tax (IN RED - REDUCTION)

Okay, so here are my skills:

Reprocessing - Level V
Reprocessing Efficiency - Level V
Pyroxeres Processing - Level IV (only skill not at level V)
Zainou Implant - + 4% yield
Standings with Tash Murkon Family - 9.30 (Connections 4 raises your standing from 9.16 = Excellent Standing)

The problem I see here, based on the chart is that I should have no penalty from the station owner tax. When I go to reprocess the ore and view the possible results the results specifically show that 0.0 is being taken by the station owners, but I'm still having this negative % show up in the formula, and I believe this is what is lowering me to 68%. I have Excellent standings with many many corps all over Eve, so I can reprocess ore at no penalty, but even with the highest standing with Tash Murkon Family I am still showing a negative percentage (x1.0) in the formula being generated. If I am reading the chart correctly then I should be at 71.0% for reprocessing ore, since my skills (all but one) are maxed and I have the +4% implant.

When I calculate the percentages ( 50 x 1.15 x 1.1 x 1.08 x 1.04) this equals 71.04%, which is what I should have, so why am I receiving a negative penalty for Corp standing when I am 9.30 standing with Tash Murkon Family?

Can someone show me where I am either wrong, or not including something, or if this is a mistake that just hasn't been fixed by CCP yet.

If more details are needed please let me know.

Thanks,

Ram
Ncc 1709
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Reckless Contingency.
#2107 - 2014-07-29 10:10:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Ncc 1709
the tax is not a percentage multiplyer its a direct multiplyer

what happens when you multiply a figure by 1 ?
nothing
1.0 means your not paying tax

also are you hovering your mouse over the ore your reprocessing? as the top figure don't count in the ore specialisation
t'raq mardon
Laminated Metals
#2108 - 2014-09-15 20:48:30 UTC
so... not to dig up an old thread, but what moron thought it would be a good idea to make the max possible refining bellow 100% and then add more minerals to everything? I mean, that's rookie **** guys. How hard is it to define a point where you want perfect refine (max skills, max standing, max implant, etc.) and work backwards? I mean seriously, that is the kind of crap that a 15 year old pulls when they realize they didn't finish a project and it's due tomorrow. "Don't have time to do it the right way so f it, I'll just add to the base yield to make up for it. No one will notice"

I mean, you talk about how steep the learning curve is for this game and then you do crap like this so that new players can't just look at what the ore refines into since it is literally not possible to ever get that out of the ore in any way.

Bush league CCP, just plain bush league.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#2109 - 2014-09-16 11:08:27 UTC
It allows, in future, more flexibility wrt refining.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

Steppa Musana
Doomheim
#2110 - 2014-09-17 06:59:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Steppa Musana
t'raq mardon wrote:
so... not to dig up an old thread, but what moron thought it would be a good idea to make the max possible refining bellow 100% and then add more minerals to everything? I mean, that's rookie **** guys. How hard is it to define a point where you want perfect refine (max skills, max standing, max implant, etc.) and work backwards? I mean seriously, that is the kind of crap that a 15 year old pulls when they realize they didn't finish a project and it's due tomorrow. "Don't have time to do it the right way so f it, I'll just add to the base yield to make up for it. No one will notice"

I mean, you talk about how steep the learning curve is for this game and then you do crap like this so that new players can't just look at what the ore refines into since it is literally not possible to ever get that out of the ore in any way.

Bush league CCP, just plain bush league.

That's a lot of anger for something quite minor.
Also you should know the devs who make these changes read these threads too. The more personal attacks we levy against them, the less likely they are to keep reading. So thanks for that.

Hey guys.

t'raq mardon
Laminated Metals
#2111 - 2014-09-18 15:00:31 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
It allows, in future, more flexibility wrt refining.


What possible flexibility could be needed that would require the maximum possible refine in every current situation to be considerably less than 100%? a new skill that will further improve refining efficiency? that would be a bit redundant, and could have been implemented all at once... a new pos mod or mechanic that would allow for more efficient refining? maybe redundant, maybe awesome, but definitely not something that needs efficiency decreased before it's implemented. It just feels like this specific project was half finished when you turned it in.

Not angry, just disappointed. I mean if there is some sound logic to this I would be thrilled to delete my post and call myself an *******. But from where I stand as someone who just plays the game it seems pretty nonsensical to add minerals to something so that efficiency can be decreased without changing the output... just decide where you want the max efficiency and call that 100%, adjust variables until you like the outcome for all the situations. If you want to add something that causes more output in the future, add the minerals then and adjust the numbers as necessary.

I will say that the UI changes look like they took a lot of work and they turned out ******* awesome. The compression changes, i think, were a pretty good idea, especially the compression pos mod; makes mining in a wormhole much more practical.

If a dev decides to stop reading user feedback because of the way I'm saying things, they probably haven't read much feedback from EVE players and may want to GTFO now while their eyes haven't been offended too badly. see almost any discussion on recent wormhole changes.
Darkblad
Doomheim
#2112 - 2014-09-18 15:37:28 UTC
t'raq mardon wrote:
If a dev decides to stop reading user feedback because of the way I'm saying things, they probably haven't read much feedback from EVE players and may want to GTFO now while their eyes haven't been offended too badly. see almost any discussion on recent wormhole changes.
That's not really an excuse for such choice of words.

On the topic: As the pre Crius 100 % were achievable pretty easily (on e.g. 50 % base yield stations), there had to happen something to lay the groundworks for future increase beyond the maximum (which currently is 60% base, around 86% maximum). And striving for perfection from a character standpoint has always been was something achieved from skills (and implants) - just not for refining pre Crius. That flaw just got corrected, angering those that were too comfortable with it.

NPEISDRIP

Jake Smitty
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2113 - 2014-10-15 19:57:56 UTC
im not a miner but might play with it a lil

Ima start blowin em up