EVE General Discussion

It's a game, I'm not confused at all, I understand that it's a game, I don't take losses seriously because it's a game.

If people find that losses in a game cause suffering and pain then they shouldn't be playing games, it would take electrodes attached to my genitals that delivered current every time I suffered a loss in a game to cause me suffering and pain, because I know and understand that it's a game.

I pretty much did this when I first started. (It was a few years ago, when noob-ships were much less of a threat.) I thought they would get tired at some point, but they literally just sat there killing my noob ship for hours. The short and unsatisfying answer as to why, as far as I can tell is simply this: People are apes.

I didn't understand, at first, either. The first thing you should take into account is that we are basically chimpanzees. The main difference between a good number of humans on this Earth and their ape cousins is a baseball cap and an iPod, and they will mimmick what they see. (Monkey see; monkey do.) So, if they see someone else be a jackass, they (sociopaths) will likely be influenced to be one as well, because "that's how we play the game". Others (vandals and sadists) are probably genuinely destructive, anti-social individuals who enjoy "making things go boom" and "harvesting tears". Still others (cowards) probably do it defensively, because it is better to be the "lion" than the "gazelle". A fourth group (psychopaths) are those that actually advocate such behavior, as it serves their purposes in a crude, but effective way, although, it is probably rare to find this last group actually perpetrating the behavior themselves.

I think these 4 groups do most of the "mindless" PVP. The "mindful" PVP is obviously a lot more complicated, and it is sometimes hard to differentiate the two. Learning the "why" is part of the metagame that makes EVE so challenging and so rewarding. Good luck, capsuleer.

. . . .

Obligatory disclaimers to address the ever-present trolls:

1) Yes, you can find a recent kill on the killboards of a noobship impairor, which happened in a 0.4 sec system.

2) No, that incident isn't what "caused" this post. This kind of thing has been going on ever since I first started the game over a month ago. It is just the latest thing to make me chuckle, shake my head, and question exactly what is going on.

3) No, I have half a billion in funds right at the moment, so I could care less about the loss of the free noobship, nor the loss of the half-a-mil venture I lost right before it, nor the loss of another venture before that one, nor... (blah blah).

4) No, these aren't "carebear tears" or "noobtears" or blah blah, but if you like to "feast" on such things, and you want to imagine that they are, knock yourself out, and more power to you.

5) No, I don't want anything changed about the game.

6) No, I don't want this, or other practices banned.

7) Yes, I understand that PvP can occur anytime in this game, and that you are never "truly safe," least of all in low-sec or null sec or whatever.

So, is there some relevant point I'm missing to what I will call "seemingly mindless PvP?" I'm asking because I truly don't know the answer (in other words, maybe there is a relevant point and I just don't know what it is).

Definition of terms:

RELEVANT POINT - Something that serves a strategic, tactical, or economic gaming purpose (procurement of resources; acquiring a strategic, tactical, or economic advantage; denial of such things to a rival; etc). Examples: 1) Piracy where you actually take somebody's stuff. 2) Killing mining (or other) ships in a system claimed by a corporation you work for (i.e. defending assets). 3) Hell, even honing your skills by taking on a ship that might offer some sort of challenge to you.

SEEMINGLY MINDLESS PVP - PvP which seems to have no relevant point (see above). Examples: 1) Attacking and blowing up noobships with ships that are ridiculously overpowered compared to noobships when there is absolutely nothing to gain economically, militarily, strategically, tactically, or otherwise.

Anyway, as far as I know, you don't earn "experience points" in this game by killing stuff, do you? And in the examples I am referring to, there is no piracy happening (stuff isn't taken from the victim - in fact there isn't any stuff to take). There are no assets being defended by the perpetrator because the perpetrator is never in a corp which owns the system in question (in fact, as far as I know 0.4 sec can't be owned by player corps), and the perpetrator seems to be operating as a "lone wolf."

At any rate, anytime - I repeat anytime - I venture into a system with less than 0.5 security, I get killed by what I have termed "seemingly mindless PvP," meaning I can see no relevant point to being aggressed. It always occurs in the exact same fashion, with the exact same hallmarks:

1) Perpetrator's ship is hilariously overpowered compared to mine - Drakes, Tengus, etc. vs. noobships.

2) Perpetrator's ship is always cloaked.

3) Perpetrator always uses some kind of hilariously overpowered missle or torpedo or bomb which essentially one-shots my noobship.

4) Perpetrator always takes huge delight in "winning" this engagement, and really seems to "get off" on it. Perpetrator seems to believe he's made some sort of huge accomplishment.

Usually I'm messaged by the perpetrator. The conversation always goes the same. This was the conversation from a recent engagement:

EDIT: Chat logs may not be posted except in certain forums. General discussion is not one of them. Therefore the chat has been deleted - ISD Tyrozan

Believe it or not, I actually did start working on creating as many noobships as I could, for the express purpose of towing them over to this guy in my industrial ship, and hopping in them one by one so he could kill them all. However, midway through the process I had to stop playing the game to address a real life concern.

I used to go into these lower-sec systems simply to explore my way around the game (I'm merely talking 0.4 systems, not 0 secs or negative secs). After all, all I ever read on the forums is put-downs of so-called "carebears," high-sec'ers, people who live in high-sec or don't venture into low sec, etc. But nowadays, I simply venture to these places once in a while to count down how long it takes to be killed in the exact same fashion as mentioned above (usually less than 2 minutes).

Oh, these events happen in different systems, not the same system. And the perpetrators are different, not the same.

To reiterate the question before concluding this post, is there any relevant point that I am missing? I understand there could be "irrelevant points" - getting off on blowing something to smithereens which poses no challenge or threat to you whatsoever, bullying, etc. (like beating up a cripple).

Right, I don't have friends who play this game. And either way, I have no inclination to waste my time "getting back" at these people, I just wondered whether there was some real point I was missing - say accruing experience points for any kind of kill, etc.

As to gazelles and lions, if you read my post you would understand that I already understand the point to a lion killing a gazelle. That's utterly rational. I'm asking what's the point to doing such a thing where there is no benefit.

I like how you start out the post dismissing everything that RubyPorto or Baltec1 would likely say.

I'm reminded of this quote:

Every morning in Africa, a Gazelle wakes up. It knows it must run faster than the fastest lion or it will be killed. Every morning a Lion wakes up. It knows it must outrun the slowest Gazelle or it will starve to death. It doesn't matter whether you are a Lion or a Gazelle... when the sun comes up, you'd better be running.

Because this is a PVP oriented game and folks want to kill things? They would, of course, prefer to kill titans but they will settle for an ibis that lands near them or comes thru a gate.

Actually, I have studied game theory. I'd be willing to bet my left testicle that the overwhelming number of people who play this game haven't (including the behavior of those you are trying to explain). In other words, I don't think people studying game theory explains this behavior.

And there is possibility of non-benefits. Everybody who shot me with a missle lost, because they paid for the missle but gained nothing. Meanwhile, I lost nothing. It's kind of funny.



If he imagined that I provided tears, and if he imagines that I am providing more now, then more power to him, and I hope he has a good jerk-off session over it. And you too, if that's what floats your boat.