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Seemingly Mindless Pvp: Any Relevant Point?

First post
XS Tech
#101 - 2013-03-19 00:26:54 UTC
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:
Ken 1138 wrote:

After all these years of playing I truly think people are so bored with themselves that getting the (i'm in not using the term lightly here) "sexual thrill" of killing a player even just your noob ship over and over and over. Is the only way they keep going.

Lol. You paint a bleak picture of the eve player base there. I think anyone who gets a sexual thrill from blowing up online pixels has some serious problems.

wait ... you mean we're not supposed to "dock" our "iteron" in the "orca"?

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia

Asmodai Xodai
#102 - 2013-03-19 00:32:21 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
It's a game, I'm not confused at all, I understand that it's a game, I don't take losses seriously because it's a game.

Neither do I, neither does any other well-adjusted person. But it isn't the point.

If people find that losses in a game cause suffering and pain then they shouldn't be playing games, it would take electrodes attached to my genitals that delivered current every time I suffered a loss in a game to cause me suffering and pain, because I know and understand that it's a game.

While what you say yet again applies to any other well-adjusted person, it also isn't the point. We were talking about "getting off on" (or if you don't like that term, then "enjoying") someone else's pain and/or suffering.
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#103 - 2013-03-19 02:34:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Wodensun
Asmodai Xodai wrote:
Solstice Project wrote:

Easy prey will always get killed first.
It's natural. Except when babies are involved.

Babies aren't off limits in the real world - see "abortion."

However, most of your points are fine except for the spy/scout/cyno-alt suggestion, which I believe is inaccurate in these cases as this happens to me in 0.4 "non player-corp owned" systems (but I could totally see this logic in null-sec corp. owned systems).


Killboard padding... sadism... and simply because we like blowing up ****..

Also you do realise that a lot of capital ships get parked in quiet systems and that a noobship is pefectly capable of lighting a cyno? It doesnt really matter what sec status the sys is as long as it has a station to land your dread/carrier on.

So yeah the safest assumption is to consider anything and everything a possible cyno lighting, hotdroping, spying son of a ***** and just send him home with the pod express BlinkTwisted

And you'd be amazed how many people vent their more sadistic urges online..

Do not give me likes them 101 likes arent a accident...

Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#104 - 2013-03-19 02:43:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Wodensun
Mayhaw Morgan wrote:
Asmodai Xodai wrote:
Believe it or not, I actually did start working on creating as many noobships as I could, for the express purpose of towing them over to this guy in my industrial ship, and hopping in them one by one so he could kill them all.

I pretty much did this when I first started. (It was a few years ago, when noob-ships were much less of a threat.) I thought they would get tired at some point, but they literally just sat there killing my noob ship for hours. The short and unsatisfying answer as to why, as far as I can tell is simply this: People are apes.

I didn't understand, at first, either. The first thing you should take into account is that we are basically chimpanzees. The main difference between a good number of humans on this Earth and their ape cousins is a baseball cap and an iPod, and they will mimmick what they see. (Monkey see; monkey do.) So, if they see someone else be a jackass, they (sociopaths) will likely be influenced to be one as well, because "that's how we play the game". Others (vandals and sadists) are probably genuinely destructive, anti-social individuals who enjoy "making things go boom" and "harvesting tears". Still others (cowards) probably do it defensively, because it is better to be the "lion" than the "gazelle". A fourth group (psychopaths) are those that actually advocate such behavior, as it serves their purposes in a crude, but effective way, although, it is probably rare to find this last group actually perpetrating the behavior themselves.

I think these 4 groups do most of the "mindless" PVP. The "mindful" PVP is obviously a lot more complicated, and it is sometimes hard to differentiate the two. Learning the "why" is part of the metagame that makes EVE so challenging and so rewarding. Good luck, capsuleer.

Hey Doc... is that you? Can I lay down on your couch for a while? Them urges we talked about are back again, and that dude over there is looking at me funny. I want to slith his throat, hang him from a rack, cut open his belly up towards his throat, then break open his rib cage and let his intestines dangle out.... I think its called an Odins crow... You think you can help me with that?...Roll

Do not give me likes them 101 likes arent a accident...

Sharon Anne
Gorthaur Legion
Imperium Mordor
#105 - 2013-03-19 05:48:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Sharon Anne
Solstice Project wrote:

...... Anyway, to sum this up in one sentence:

Easy prey will always get killed first.
It's natural. Except when babies are involved.

Fly manually o/

Unless you're a dingoPirate
Eugene Kerner
Goonswarm Federation
#106 - 2013-03-19 07:15:39 UTC
wall of text and you seem to suck.

TunDraGon is recruiting! "Also, your boobs [:o] "   CCP Eterne, 2012 "When in doubt...make a diȼk joke." Robin Williams - RIP

Laris Orwan
#107 - 2013-03-19 10:16:41 UTC
Sorry if I missed something in the very long post but I skimmed it a little.. :).

You are asking why people blow you up in your noob ship in low sec right? Well I'm asking you... what are you doing flying a noob ship in low sec? What's the point? Why not fit a decent t1 frig for say 5-10 mil isk, go to youtube and learn how to use dscan, create safes, basic pvp, then go to FW low sec and have some fun man.

If I saw I noob ship in low sec I would blow it up I have done and would do again. This game is about spaceships going boom pure and simple. Every aspect of this game traces back to that simple fact. S if you want to fly low sec learn how to fly low sec and don't just sit around in a noob ship waiting to go boom.. I'm only 3 months into pvp and its great fun.. The reason you are in low sec is because deep down you want to do it too.. So do it man

Message me in game if you want to fly with some other noob pvpers. Once you make something go boom you'll understand and everything will become clear..

Good luck and fly dangerous!
Rebecha Pucontis
#108 - 2013-03-19 11:04:51 UTC
Asmodai Xodai wrote:
. . . .

Just an observation here. But throughout this thread you don't seem to have taken on board the many reasons people have given to you for your ships being killed. You seem to be focused upon picking out a small sub section with psychological problems and have tarred the whole of the eve player base with this label.

Also, eve is a game which involves killing others as a central tenant of the gameplay. Calling every player who enjoys hunting and blowing up other ships a sociopath is a foolish generalisation at best.

Also, as the poster above says, your own actions are somewhat strange and unrational in the context of the game. Hence giving the impression to players that you are up to no good. Myself, unlike a lot of eve pilots only attack known hostiles, although if I saw a neutral noob ship lurking ominously on the gate then I would think you are a "spy" and probably shoot you too. So you should consider how your own actions are appearing to other players also.

I think this thread should more appropriately be named "is the majority of the eve player base sociopathic?". As you don't seem to be taking on board any other reasons for you ship being killed.
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#109 - 2013-03-19 11:36:06 UTC
Velicitia wrote:
wait ... you mean we're not supposed to "dock" our "iteron" in the "orca"?
I'm sure a "thorax" "docks" much better. (this got "stuck" on you, eh ? xD)
Wrecking Shots
#110 - 2013-03-19 11:36:48 UTC
Asmodai Xodai wrote:
Obligatory disclaimers to address the ever-present trolls:

1) Yes, you can find a recent kill on the killboards of a noobship impairor, which happened in a 0.4 sec system.

2) No, that incident isn't what "caused" this post. This kind of thing has been going on ever since I first started the game over a month ago. It is just the latest thing to make me chuckle, shake my head, and question exactly what is going on.

3) No, I have half a billion in funds right at the moment, so I could care less about the loss of the free noobship, nor the loss of the half-a-mil venture I lost right before it, nor the loss of another venture before that one, nor... (blah blah).

4) No, these aren't "carebear tears" or "noobtears" or blah blah, but if you like to "feast" on such things, and you want to imagine that they are, knock yourself out, and more power to you.

5) No, I don't want anything changed about the game.

6) No, I don't want this, or other practices banned.

7) Yes, I understand that PvP can occur anytime in this game, and that you are never "truly safe," least of all in low-sec or null sec or whatever.

So, is there some relevant point I'm missing to what I will call "seemingly mindless PvP?" I'm asking because I truly don't know the answer (in other words, maybe there is a relevant point and I just don't know what it is).

Definition of terms:

RELEVANT POINT - Something that serves a strategic, tactical, or economic gaming purpose (procurement of resources; acquiring a strategic, tactical, or economic advantage; denial of such things to a rival; etc). Examples: 1) Piracy where you actually take somebody's stuff. 2) Killing mining (or other) ships in a system claimed by a corporation you work for (i.e. defending assets). 3) Hell, even honing your skills by taking on a ship that might offer some sort of challenge to you.

SEEMINGLY MINDLESS PVP - PvP which seems to have no relevant point (see above). Examples: 1) Attacking and blowing up noobships with ships that are ridiculously overpowered compared to noobships when there is absolutely nothing to gain economically, militarily, strategically, tactically, or otherwise.

Anyway, as far as I know, you don't earn "experience points" in this game by killing stuff, do you? And in the examples I am referring to, there is no piracy happening (stuff isn't taken from the victim - in fact there isn't any stuff to take). There are no assets being defended by the perpetrator because the perpetrator is never in a corp which owns the system in question (in fact, as far as I know 0.4 sec can't be owned by player corps), and the perpetrator seems to be operating as a "lone wolf."

At any rate, anytime - I repeat anytime - I venture into a system with less than 0.5 security, I get killed by what I have termed "seemingly mindless PvP," meaning I can see no relevant point to being aggressed. It always occurs in the exact same fashion, with the exact same hallmarks:

1) Perpetrator's ship is hilariously overpowered compared to mine - Drakes, Tengus, etc. vs. noobships.

2) Perpetrator's ship is always cloaked.

3) Perpetrator always uses some kind of hilariously overpowered missle or torpedo or bomb which essentially one-shots my noobship.

4) Perpetrator always takes huge delight in "winning" this engagement, and really seems to "get off" on it. Perpetrator seems to believe he's made some sort of huge accomplishment.

Usually I'm messaged by the perpetrator. The conversation always goes the same. This was the conversation from a recent engagement:

EDIT: Chat logs may not be posted except in certain forums. General discussion is not one of them. Therefore the chat has been deleted - ISD Tyrozan

Believe it or not, I actually did start working on creating as many noobships as I could, for the express purpose of towing them over to this guy in my industrial ship, and hopping in them one by one so he could kill them all. However, midway through the process I had to stop playing the game to address a real life concern.

I used to go into these lower-sec systems simply to explore my way around the game (I'm merely talking 0.4 systems, not 0 secs or negative secs). After all, all I ever read on the forums is put-downs of so-called "carebears," high-sec'ers, people who live in high-sec or don't venture into low sec, etc. But nowadays, I simply venture to these places once in a while to count down how long it takes to be killed in the exact same fashion as mentioned above (usually less than 2 minutes).

Oh, these events happen in different systems, not the same system. And the perpetrators are different, not the same.

To reiterate the question before concluding this post, is there any relevant point that I am missing? I understand there could be "irrelevant points" - getting off on blowing something to smithereens which poses no challenge or threat to you whatsoever, bullying, etc. (like beating up a cripple).

Because this is a PVP oriented game and folks want to kill things? They would, of course, prefer to kill titans but they will settle for an ibis that lands near them or comes thru a gate.
Muad 'dib
State War Academy
Caldari State
#111 - 2013-03-19 11:40:01 UTC
anything could be carry a plex or some skills or some implants or other small items, blow it up anyway and find out.

Cosmic signature detected. . . . I got 99 likes, and this post aint one.

Ana Vyr
Vyral Technologies
#112 - 2013-03-19 15:03:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Ana Vyr
Asmodai Xodai wrote:
Tauranon wrote:

Yes cloaky tengu will be a difficult problem for your noobship, but you can get friends on standby, and use something tankier, and then lock the tengu down for the 30 seconds or so it takes for your friends to gate and warp in on you and kill it.

oh you don't have friends...

Right, I don't have friends who play this game. And either way, I have no inclination to waste my time "getting back" at these people, I just wondered whether there was some real point I was missing - say accruing experience points for any kind of kill, etc.

As to gazelles and lions, if you read my post you would understand that I already understand the point to a lion killing a gazelle. That's utterly rational. I'm asking what's the point to doing such a thing where there is no benefit.

The benefit to these people are your tears and posts like this. I agree with you that this sort of thing is lame, but in this game, the wolves scream much louder than the sheep, and the company that created Eve think this sort of gameplay is cool. Its your choice whether you believe they are right. I enjoy the feeling that when I make an error, there will be a tangible consequence in Eve, but its a real shame the pricetag for that is often the derision from someone who needed to humiliate you so they could feel better about themselves.
Nerf Burger
#113 - 2013-03-19 15:16:49 UTC
I like how you start out the post dismissing everything that RubyPorto or Baltec1 would likely say.
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#114 - 2013-03-19 15:19:36 UTC
Nerf Burger wrote:
I like how you start out the post dismissing everything that RubyPorto or Baltec1 would likely say.

Send me more hate mails about it.
Nerf Burger
#115 - 2013-03-19 15:32:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Nerf Burger
baltec1 wrote:
Nerf Burger wrote:
I like how you start out the post dismissing everything that RubyPorto or Baltec1 would likely say.

Send me more hate mails about it.

Nobody actually hates life-less clowns whose social lives are restricted to the forums of a video game. Jokes are meant to be laughed at, even if its in their face. I thought you'd be happy to finally get some attention.

On Topic: For the OP, the mindless pvp in EVE is the very thing that retains so many of these horrible players who have gotten **** on and humiliated in other pvp games that require actual player skills.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#116 - 2013-03-19 15:35:28 UTC
Theron Vetrus wrote:
I'm reminded of this quote:

Every morning in Africa, a Gazelle wakes up. It knows it must run faster than the fastest lion or it will be killed. Every morning a Lion wakes up. It knows it must outrun the slowest Gazelle or it will starve to death. It doesn't matter whether you are a Lion or a Gazelle... when the sun comes up, you'd better be running.

Yea, but that's unbalanced as hell. Someone post in the U.N. forum so they can nerf it. Cool
Lost Greybeard
Drunken Yordles
#117 - 2013-03-19 15:40:20 UTC
Teaching idiots a lesson about taking a noob ship into low sec and just hanging out like a moron is an entirely relevant and useful point.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#118 - 2013-03-19 15:46:09 UTC
Disastro wrote:

Because this is a PVP oriented game and folks want to kill things? They would, of course, prefer to kill titans but they will settle for an ibis that lands near them or comes thru a gate.

This of course.

it's beyond stupid to e that people speculate about why people would shoot at other people's space ships in a VIDEO GAME about space ships with guns on them. Hell common sense would dictate that it would be better to ask "hey, why DIDN'T you shoot at that other space ship in that video game?

As a kid i played a video game called "Asteroids" (although I would not play that game today as i now realize it's basically MINING Big smile ), not once did anyone come up behind me at the arcade and say "dude", why are you shooting those poor defenseless rocks that are just minding their own business, is their something wrong with you?".
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#119 - 2013-03-19 15:48:51 UTC
Every single noob ship can carry a cyno.

There you go.
Free Trade Corp
#120 - 2013-03-19 17:05:06 UTC
Asmodai Xodai wrote:
Inquisitor Kitchner wrote:
If you've ever studied game theory you'd get why every player shoots noobships, it's because it costs you nothing and there are possible benefits whereas not shooting you doesn't even have the possibility of benefits.

Actually, I have studied game theory. I'd be willing to bet my left testicle that the overwhelming number of people who play this game haven't (including the behavior of those you are trying to explain). In other words, I don't think people studying game theory explains this behavior.

And there is possibility of non-benefits. Everybody who shot me with a missle lost, because they paid for the missle but gained nothing. Meanwhile, I lost nothing. It's kind of funny.

But he doesn't do it for no reason, he does it for tears. Which you duly provided. Hopefully he's seen this forum thread now aswell for a bonus session

If he imagined that I provided tears, and if he imagines that I am providing more now, then more power to him, and I hope he has a good jerk-off session over it. And you too, if that's what floats your boat.

NO sir.

I've seen people put 1 billion isk blueprints in noob ships. Not shooting every single ship, be it shuttle, noobship or what ever is dumb. By not shooting them you could've lost billions of profit. It costs you nothing to check it, it's like opening treasure chests, it doesn't matter if 99% are empty if even one in 100 has something good it's worth the effort to at least check.