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Seemingly Mindless Pvp: Any Relevant Point?

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Author
ISD Gallifreyan
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
#61 - 2013-03-18 10:53:18 UTC
There are many good responses to your original question.
I would add that 0.4 systems are the gates to lower sec status systems.
If you are interested in exploring, get to lower sec systems quickly. (0.3, 0.2 etc)

Tear collectors seem to hang about border systems looking for new players looking for rarer ore.
Just be aware the Rats do get bigger and more numerous the lower you go.

ISD Gallifreyan

Lt. Commander

Community Communication Liaisons (CCL)

Interstellar Services Department

Velicitia
XS Tech
#62 - 2013-03-18 11:10:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Velicitia
Haven't read through *everything* (so it might be here)

Velator (and IIRC, the other noobships), with appropriate fitting skills can fit a cyno + fuel without any additional modules (cargohold expansion, co-processor, etc). Better to get rid of it before the big guns show up...

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia

Chopper Rollins
hahahlolspycorp
Brave Collective
#63 - 2013-03-18 11:14:02 UTC
UGH social Darwinism is pernicious and wrong. First couple pages of this thread were uglier than usual.

Bosena, Qualm Singulari sniping indies and everything in Amarr battleships. I fly me reaper out to loot wrecks, just to be a ****. POW now i'm in Heild, jump or so away where i have me clone.
Charge in reaper! POW
WaaaaAAARRgggHH POW
Hey you guise wats goin POW

Eventually there was this cloud of my corpses and wrecks. One guy asked if he got loyalty points podding me and i'm like SURE WHY NOT KNOCK YOURSELF OUT.
POW
Yargh my anus! POW
Think of the children POW
Wait don't shoot POW


They all docked up. I came back in a wreathe and made 7 trips moving all the loot they left. It really is no fun when the victim is having fun with it. Spaec adventure gaem allows you to entirely embrace the punk rock concept of accepting the terms of your enemy's attack and even siding with your enemy in that attack.

The egotists in eve are the cruellest and at the same time the most susceptible to suffering, funny how that works.
TLDR for the livestock: Flexibility allows speed


Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.

Debora Tsung
Perkone
Caldari State
#64 - 2013-03-18 11:24:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Debora Tsung
Asmodai Xodai wrote:

And there is possibility of non-benefits. Everybody who shot me with a missle lost, because they paid for the missle but gained nothing. Meanwhile, I lost nothing. It's kind of funny.



That possibility is outweighed by far by the potential gains. To Everyone that can afford to fit and fly a Tengu in low sec and even actively engage in PVP (You could still be the bait after all) the price of the missiles he wasted on you is such an insignifficant amount off isk that it could be none at all, he won't even notice.

On the other hand, You could've carried one thousand plexes in Your cargo hold.

Granted, the chance of anyone doing something like this is nigh nonexistent, but it's there and it wouldn't be the first time.

Stupidity should be a bannable offense.

Fighting back is more fun than not.

Sticky: AFK Cloaking Thread It's not pretty, but it's there.

Takseen
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#65 - 2013-03-18 11:35:17 UTC
Roime wrote:


What kind of objectives a solo or small gang pilot could set, besides KB stats that satisfy them? (This is a real question). I love PVP, would adding some lite RP objectives improve my game?
Driving farmers out of wormholes would be something that I'd be interested in, but getting my space brosefs to shoot POSes is impossible, and I do understand them :D



You could also pick a FW militia and assist in them taking or defending a system, even without directly joining a militia.

Also does "aligning the Venture at a low speed" actually help in any way? You still need to accelerate to full speed for warp to kick in.
J'Poll
MUSE LLP
RAZOR Alliance
#66 - 2013-03-18 11:40:39 UTC
Asmodai Xodai wrote:
Inquisitor Kitchner wrote:
If you've ever studied game theory you'd get why every player shoots noobships, it's because it costs you nothing and there are possible benefits whereas not shooting you doesn't even have the possibility of benefits.


Actually, I have studied game theory. I'd be willing to bet my left testicle that the overwhelming number of people who play this game haven't (including the behavior of those you are trying to explain). In other words, I don't think people studying game theory explains this behavior.

And there is possibility of non-benefits. Everybody who shot me with a missle lost, because they paid for the missle but gained nothing. Meanwhile, I lost nothing. It's kind of funny.

Quote:
But he doesn't do it for no reason, he does it for tears. Which you duly provided. Hopefully he's seen this forum thread now aswell for a bonus session


If he imagined that I provided tears, and if he imagines that I am providing more now, then more power to him, and I hope he has a good jerk-off session over it. And you too, if that's what floats your boat.


Okay they shoot you with a missile. For what they know you are a ****** and carry reaply expensive stuff. Which make them have an income.

Or you are a neutral cyno for a cap fleet that just got stalled.

If you go into lowsec you are warned that its dangerous. This counts for all ships.

Now. Keep the tears going. Tank almost full again.....

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club

Skeln Thargensen
Doomheim
#67 - 2013-03-18 11:41:55 UTC
Asmodai Xodai wrote:
Skeln Thargensen wrote:
looks like the OP died to a serial camper. he has a most impressive K/D ratio and never, ever moves.


It has happened many times. Same modus operandi (cloaked cruiser, blah blah). Same results. Just a different system and different perpetrator every time.

I have zero doubts that I could pull up the map right now and randomly pick any 0.4 system anywhere, and go there in a noobship or venture. The same exact thing with the same exact modus operandi would happen in very short order. I think all these "cloaked cruiser gankers" studied at the same school or something.

Try it yourself. Just check your clone first.


Oh I'm fully aware that these guys infest low sec. they're sitting on every other low to high sec gate and mission agent station. as i said in my other post there are tricks you can learn, specifically involving fitting a microwarpdrive and cloaking device and setting up undock instawarp bookmarks, that let you slip by these guys effortlessly, even in cruisers. smaller ships you might have fast enough align to not even require that.

you can even escape bubble camps if you keep your head and run dual prop. good ones though... yeah now that's what you can call futile.

forums.  serious business.

Inquisitor Kitchner
The Executives
Executive Outcomes
#68 - 2013-03-18 12:26:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Inquisitor Kitchner
Asmodai Xodai wrote:

Actually, I have studied game theory. I'd be willing to bet my left testicle that the overwhelming number of people who play this game haven't (including the behavior of those you are trying to explain). In other words, I don't think people studying game theory explains this behavior.


If you had studied game theory and it's application instead of reading the wikipedia page you'd know a knowledge of game theory isn't required to take part in a game, meerely that you are a rational actor, which requires you knowing the rules of the game.

The situation you have described is a game where the PvPer has two options: Kill or don't kill.

Kill provides plenty of potential benefits, not matter how small the benefit or the possibility or getting that benefit, and not killing provides literally no benefit to the PvPer.

Therefore any rational actor will always pick the kill option as there is no reason not to. They don't need to know game theory to know that, they just need to know the rules of the game, which they do.

If you have actually studied game theory it sounds like you failed the course.

"If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared." - Niccolo Machiavelli

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#69 - 2013-03-18 12:37:12 UTC
You can fit a cyno to a nub ship.
Ken 1138
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#70 - 2013-03-18 12:39:35 UTC
Takseen wrote:
Ken 1138 wrote:
It's quite simple, people really do "get off" on killing anything player related from noob ships to property. This is what I've learned from all types of games from shooters to MMOs like EVE. Since the start of online gaming many many people only play a game to ruin someone's day. EVE can have that hard hitting impact. However...

High sec wars and random PVP never make sense to me. The other side, the aggressor side isn't gaining anything, even if the kill drops something of value. Cost of buying the ship, fitting the ship, arming the ship, stocking the ship with ammo, waiting for a target and killing the target. You have lost everything. ISK, time, maybe even your ship and let's be honest respect from the other player. For what? A almost nothing bounty, a kill board post that few if anyone except yourself even look at?



I feel the same way about people who do nothing but mine, or mission, or station trade to accumulate stupid amounts of ISK without ever using it on anything but more mining accounts or a more pimped mission running ship.



Yes i agree, plus i don't know about the rest of you but it's fun to switch "professions" in EVE from time to time. I just need 2 solid months of skill training to get into blops.P
Karak Terrel
Foundation for CODE and THE NEW ORDER
#71 - 2013-03-18 13:29:52 UTC
Asmodai Xodai wrote:
Kara Corvinus wrote:
fun
Pronunciation: /fʌn/

...


I said I understood that there could be "irrelevant points" to this activity - beating up cripples or old ladies and getting off on it (basically a sociopathic/psychopathic mentality). I was wondering if there were any possible relevant points to such acts.


It's a game, so fun IS a relevant point. It should actually be THE MOST RELEVANT point of all. And it's a noobship not an old lady or a cripple.

If you try to make a point about that there should only be FAIR fights why don't you just say so.
Karak Terrel
Foundation for CODE and THE NEW ORDER
#72 - 2013-03-18 13:34:41 UTC
Asmodai Xodai wrote:
Babies aren't off limits in the real world - see "abortion."

What hellhole are you from? you abort babies? Where i'm from it's only allowed to abort a fetus. Pretty sick story bro.
Roime
Shiva Furnace
#73 - 2013-03-18 14:30:29 UTC
Takseen wrote:
Roime wrote:


What kind of objectives a solo or small gang pilot could set, besides KB stats that satisfy them? (This is a real question). I love PVP, would adding some lite RP objectives improve my game?
Driving farmers out of wormholes would be something that I'd be interested in, but getting my space brosefs to shoot POSes is impossible, and I do understand them :D



You could also pick a FW militia and assist in them taking or defending a system, even without directly joining a militia.

Also does "aligning the Venture at a low speed" actually help in any way? You still need to accelerate to full speed for warp to kick in.


Or just join FW :) yeah, that's been bubbling under for some time, maybe one day we leave our high plains of gold and amber and see what the fuzz is all about.

It's not 100% of speed, it's 75%, but anyway- less time to accelerate from some speed vs full stop aka better than nothing. Mostly my point was that it's a bit tricky to be fully aligned with a fast ship like Venture and still keep your gassers/miners running. And not really needed, the Venture is quicksilver in a teflon case.



.

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#74 - 2013-03-18 14:36:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Roime wrote:

It's not 100% of speed, it's 75%, but anyway- less time to accelerate from some speed vs full stop aka better than nothing. Mostly my point was that it's a bit tricky to be fully aligned with a fast ship like Venture and still keep your gassers/miners running. And not really needed, the Venture is quicksilver in a teflon case.


Two Ventures, each equipped with a web active on the other, aligned to a celestial should be able to mine while moving at a speed that allows them to hit warp fast, the built in double WCS works to their advantage as well, it requires multiple points or a infinipoint to actually tackle them.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Doomheim
#75 - 2013-03-18 14:39:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
What doesn't fit into an objective means-test on 'value' of blapping a noobship is the simple fun and blowing up another players ship, regardless of size/fit/cost... Your first mistake is trying to compare what is 'fun' for you with other players, in a sandbox it is whatever each person wants it to be.

For example, I may not be part of the 'cool kids leetz PVP' side of the EVE house because I enjoy blapping miners and PVE-fit mission runners, but I *enjoy* it.

Leetz pvp'ers will scoff and demean my chosen profession of hisec piracy, but if I find it thorougly enjoyable who is right to gainsay that? Soon as someone else pays my subscription, then they can tell me how I 'should' play eve.

F
Chandaris
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#76 - 2013-03-18 14:55:27 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
You can fit a cyno to a nub ship.


You can also cram it full of BPO's and PLEX.

TL;DR, because I can, because you're there, and because I really like pressing my F1 key and watching something go 'foooooom!'
Velicitia
XS Tech
#77 - 2013-03-18 14:57:00 UTC
Roime wrote:

It's not 100% of speed, it's 75%, but anyway- less time to accelerate from some speed vs full stop aka better than nothing. Mostly my point was that it's a bit tricky to be fully aligned with a fast ship like Venture and still keep your gassers/miners running. And not really needed, the Venture is quicksilver in a teflon case.




corpie with webber (or 3) helps here ...

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia

Notorious Fellon
#78 - 2013-03-18 17:39:24 UTC
You have highlighted one of the key issues with EVE. Next time, don't waste so much time trying to preempt the trolls.

If you post it; they will come.

Crime, it is not a "career", it is a lifestyle.

War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#79 - 2013-03-18 19:08:50 UTC
Asmodai Xodai wrote:
Kara Corvinus wrote:
fun
Pronunciation: /fʌn/

...


I said I understood that there could be "irrelevant points" to this activity - beating up cripples or old ladies and getting off on it (basically a sociopathic/psychopathic mentality). I was wondering if there were any possible relevant points to such acts.


I'm sure if you'd explained that you were a crippled old lady, the nice man with the missiles would've helped you cross the system instead.

Me, I blow up everything that moves in case it drops something shiny. You never know what's inside that cargo hold until you crack it open.

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.

Mayhaw Morgan
State War Academy
Caldari State
#80 - 2013-03-18 19:33:56 UTC
Asmodai Xodai wrote:
Believe it or not, I actually did start working on creating as many noobships as I could, for the express purpose of towing them over to this guy in my industrial ship, and hopping in them one by one so he could kill them all.


I pretty much did this when I first started. (It was a few years ago, when noob-ships were much less of a threat.) I thought they would get tired at some point, but they literally just sat there killing my noob ship for hours. The short and unsatisfying answer as to why, as far as I can tell is simply this: People are apes.

I didn't understand, at first, either. The first thing you should take into account is that we are basically chimpanzees. The main difference between a good number of humans on this Earth and their ape cousins is a baseball cap and an iPod, and they will mimmick what they see. (Monkey see; monkey do.) So, if they see someone else be a jackass, they (sociopaths) will likely be influenced to be one as well, because "that's how we play the game". Others (vandals and sadists) are probably genuinely destructive, anti-social individuals who enjoy "making things go boom" and "harvesting tears". Still others (cowards) probably do it defensively, because it is better to be the "lion" than the "gazelle". A fourth group (psychopaths) are those that actually advocate such behavior, as it serves their purposes in a crude, but effective way, although, it is probably rare to find this last group actually perpetrating the behavior themselves.

I think these 4 groups do most of the "mindless" PVP. The "mindful" PVP is obviously a lot more complicated, and it is sometimes hard to differentiate the two. Learning the "why" is part of the metagame that makes EVE so challenging and so rewarding. Good luck, capsuleer.