These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
123Next pageLast page
 

Seemingly Mindless Pvp: Any Relevant Point?

First post
Author
Asmodai Xodai
#1 - 2013-03-17 23:03:36 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Tyrozan
Obligatory disclaimers to address the ever-present trolls:

1) Yes, you can find a recent kill on the killboards of a noobship impairor, which happened in a 0.4 sec system.

2) No, that incident isn't what "caused" this post. This kind of thing has been going on ever since I first started the game over a month ago. It is just the latest thing to make me chuckle, shake my head, and question exactly what is going on.

3) No, I have half a billion in funds right at the moment, so I could care less about the loss of the free noobship, nor the loss of the half-a-mil venture I lost right before it, nor the loss of another venture before that one, nor... (blah blah).

4) No, these aren't "carebear tears" or "noobtears" or blah blah, but if you like to "feast" on such things, and you want to imagine that they are, knock yourself out, and more power to you.

5) No, I don't want anything changed about the game.

6) No, I don't want this, or other practices banned.

7) Yes, I understand that PvP can occur anytime in this game, and that you are never "truly safe," least of all in low-sec or null sec or whatever.

So, is there some relevant point I'm missing to what I will call "seemingly mindless PvP?" I'm asking because I truly don't know the answer (in other words, maybe there is a relevant point and I just don't know what it is).

Definition of terms:

RELEVANT POINT - Something that serves a strategic, tactical, or economic gaming purpose (procurement of resources; acquiring a strategic, tactical, or economic advantage; denial of such things to a rival; etc). Examples: 1) Piracy where you actually take somebody's stuff. 2) Killing mining (or other) ships in a system claimed by a corporation you work for (i.e. defending assets). 3) Hell, even honing your skills by taking on a ship that might offer some sort of challenge to you.

SEEMINGLY MINDLESS PVP - PvP which seems to have no relevant point (see above). Examples: 1) Attacking and blowing up noobships with ships that are ridiculously overpowered compared to noobships when there is absolutely nothing to gain economically, militarily, strategically, tactically, or otherwise.

Anyway, as far as I know, you don't earn "experience points" in this game by killing stuff, do you? And in the examples I am referring to, there is no piracy happening (stuff isn't taken from the victim - in fact there isn't any stuff to take). There are no assets being defended by the perpetrator because the perpetrator is never in a corp which owns the system in question (in fact, as far as I know 0.4 sec can't be owned by player corps), and the perpetrator seems to be operating as a "lone wolf."

At any rate, anytime - I repeat anytime - I venture into a system with less than 0.5 security, I get killed by what I have termed "seemingly mindless PvP," meaning I can see no relevant point to being aggressed. It always occurs in the exact same fashion, with the exact same hallmarks:

1) Perpetrator's ship is hilariously overpowered compared to mine - Drakes, Tengus, etc. vs. noobships.

2) Perpetrator's ship is always cloaked.

3) Perpetrator always uses some kind of hilariously overpowered missle or torpedo or bomb which essentially one-shots my noobship.

4) Perpetrator always takes huge delight in "winning" this engagement, and really seems to "get off" on it. Perpetrator seems to believe he's made some sort of huge accomplishment.

Usually I'm messaged by the perpetrator. The conversation always goes the same. This was the conversation from a recent engagement:

EDIT: Chat logs may not be posted except in certain forums. General discussion is not one of them. Therefore the chat has been deleted - ISD Tyrozan

Believe it or not, I actually did start working on creating as many noobships as I could, for the express purpose of towing them over to this guy in my industrial ship, and hopping in them one by one so he could kill them all. However, midway through the process I had to stop playing the game to address a real life concern.

I used to go into these lower-sec systems simply to explore my way around the game (I'm merely talking 0.4 systems, not 0 secs or negative secs). After all, all I ever read on the forums is put-downs of so-called "carebears," high-sec'ers, people who live in high-sec or don't venture into low sec, etc. But nowadays, I simply venture to these places once in a while to count down how long it takes to be killed in the exact same fashion as mentioned above (usually less than 2 minutes).

Oh, these events happen in different systems, not the same system. And the perpetrators are different, not the same.

To reiterate the question before concluding this post, is there any relevant point that I am missing? I understand there could be "irrelevant points" - getting off on blowing something to smithereens which poses no challenge or threat to you whatsoever, bullying, etc. (like beating up a cripple).
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#2 - 2013-03-17 23:05:21 UTC
cool story

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~

Synthetic Cultist
Church of The Crimson Saviour
#3 - 2013-03-17 23:09:49 UTC
A noobship may be a scout for some other group of players, and is able to provide a warp-in location to them.

a noobship may be a scout, destroying it before the pilot of the noobship is able to finish identifying all the ships on the gate is advantageous.

A noobship may be someone attempting to move high-value items, taking a gamble on the idea that "they won't shoot noobships".

Those are reasons why shooting at noobships may be the reasonable choice in a particular situation. Not always "griefing".

Synthia 1, Empress of Kaztropol.

It is Written.

Stray Bullets
Perkone
Caldari State
#4 - 2013-03-17 23:11:48 UTC
Well, taking aside all the dialog, a noob ship can and normally is a scout for something bigger coming through, either combat ships or industrial ones. Anyway, denying your potential prey of it's scout is a good approach to any fight.

You shouldn't think as to why they are killing you. You should think of why you aren't killing them back! :)
Kara Corvinus
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2013-03-17 23:11:48 UTC
fun
Pronunciation: /fʌn/

Definition of fun

noun
[mass noun]
enjoyment, amusement, or light-hearted pleasure:
"the children were having fun in the play area"
a source of fun:
"people-watching is great fun"
playfulness or good humour:
"she’s full of fun"

behaviour or an activity that is intended purely for amusement and should not be interpreted as having any serious or malicious purpose:
"the column’s just a bit of fun"

adjective
informal
amusing, entertaining, or enjoyable:
"it was a fun evening"
verb (funs, funning, funned)

North American informal
joke or tease:
"no need to get sore—I was only funning"
[with object]:
"they are just funning you"


Phrases
for fun

(or for the fun of it)
in order to amuse oneself and not for any more serious purpose:
"I paint a bit for fun"
"fun and games"

amusing and enjoyable activities:
"teaching isn’t all fun and games
in fun"

not intended seriously; as a joke:
"remember when you meet the press to say that your speech was all in fun
make fun of"

tease, laugh at, or joke about (someone) in a mocking or unkind way:
"she didn’t even notice he was making fun of her"
"not much (or a lot of) fun"

used to indicate that something strikes one as extremely unpleasant and depressing:
"it can’t be much fun living next door to him"
"not one's idea of fun"

used to emphasize one’s dislike for an activity or to mock someone else’s liking for it:
"being stuck behind a desk all day isn’t my idea of fun"
"what fun!"

used to convey that an activity or situation sounds amusing or enjoyable:
"we’re going to build a snowman—what fun!"


Origin:
late 17th century (denoting a trick or hoax): from obsolete fun 'to cheat or hoax', dialect variant of late Middle English fon 'make a fool of, be a fool', related to fon 'a fool', of unknown origin. Compare with fond

The use of fun as an adjective meaning ‘enjoyable,’ as in we had a fun evening, is now established in informal use. The comparative and superlative forms funner and funnest are sometimes used but should be restricted to very informal contexts.


=====================================================================================


The above is from : http://oxforddictionaries.com

I hope this helps answers your question.
Eli Green
The Arrow Project
#6 - 2013-03-17 23:13:09 UTC
Military experts are calling this a whine thread

wumbo

Asmodai Xodai
#7 - 2013-03-17 23:19:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Asmodai Xodai
Kara Corvinus wrote:
fun
Pronunciation: /fʌn/

...


I said I understood that there could be "irrelevant points" to this activity - beating up cripples or old ladies and getting off on it (basically a sociopathic/psychopathic mentality). I was wondering if there were any possible relevant points to such acts.

Some people tried to address relevant points, like scouting. Point taken, however that doesn't seem to be the case with my experience, as these aren't gate camps I am running into, and these events are happening in 0.4 sec systems, not "player corp. owned" systems.
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2013-03-17 23:24:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Solstice Project
Dear OP,

sadly there are lots of players who can only read what they want to read.
They'll always pretend that WHATEVER you say, are tears. It's pointless
trying to argue with them, because they aren't able to understand anything.

See it as what it is. He has nothing else in his life. It's pure logic. If he's so
happy about such a small achievement, it's logical to conclude that he
doesn't actually achieve anything worth his time.

Even sadder, it's totally pointless to try and talk to these people in a civilized way,
so the only thing you can do is *get back at him* and ridicule him once you blew him up.
Mind you, you should *not* use his way of talking, because then you'd be just as dumb.

Kill him, make fun of him, but don't try to humiliate him.
If you think about it, you'll see that these people humiliate themselves already.

Furthermore, i can assure you that NOT all people act like this. You may have bad luck,
or you're in the wrong places to find people actually not wasting your oxygen. Also,
please don't forget that whatever ship you use, they can never know your agenda or
if you're not a spy/scout/cyno-alt so it's just natural that people will attack and kill you ...
... especially because they can. Not all of them do that, but many.

Anyway, to sum this up in one sentence:

Easy prey will always get killed first.
It's natural. Except when babies are involved.


Fly manually o/
Asmodai Xodai
#9 - 2013-03-17 23:38:53 UTC
Solstice Project wrote:

Easy prey will always get killed first.
It's natural. Except when babies are involved.
/


Babies aren't off limits in the real world - see "abortion."

However, most of your points are fine except for the spy/scout/cyno-alt suggestion, which I believe is inaccurate in these cases as this happens to me in 0.4 "non player-corp owned" systems (but I could totally see this logic in null-sec corp. owned systems).

Thanks.
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#10 - 2013-03-17 23:41:40 UTC
Asmodai Xodai wrote:


1) Perpetrator's ship is hilariously overpowered compared to mine - Drakes, Tengus, etc. vs. noobships.

2) Perpetrator's ship is always cloaked.

3) Perpetrator always uses some kind of hilariously overpowered missle or torpedo or bomb which essentially one-shots my noobship.



A drake doesn't cloak warp, so is visible on d-scan when warping, and it takes forever to lock a noob ship with a cloak fitted and doubly so after uncloaking. ie dying to a drake in a noobship is mostly your fail.

Yes cloaky tengu will be a difficult problem for your noobship, but you can get friends on standby, and use something tankier, and then lock the tengu down for the 30 seconds or so it takes for your friends to gate and warp in on you and kill it.

oh you don't have friends...
Theron Vetrus
Doomheim
#11 - 2013-03-17 23:44:52 UTC
I'm reminded of this quote:

Every morning in Africa, a Gazelle wakes up. It knows it must run faster than the fastest lion or it will be killed. Every morning a Lion wakes up. It knows it must outrun the slowest Gazelle or it will starve to death. It doesn't matter whether you are a Lion or a Gazelle... when the sun comes up, you'd better be running.

Take what you can, give nothing back. Psychotic Monk for CSM8

Ifly Uwalk
Perkone
Caldari State
#12 - 2013-03-17 23:46:19 UTC
Picture this:

A lioness in the African savanna, lying, waiting. In sight: a juicy gazelle. Slowly she takes a step forward. Raises her head ever so slightly, takes a whiff of air. Surely the gazelle is worthy prey: nimble, quick; horns that just might turn the inevitable tide. Difficult prey, yes, but when successfully hunted - what a feast! Another slow step. Now what is this? A young bunny rabbit cowering right in front of her, unable to move, trembling with fear. Blap! Even just her paw is bigger than the rabbit. One gulp and it is gone, a mere snack on the way to bigger and better things. And the hunt continues...



You...

... are neither gazelle nor lioness.
Skeln Thargensen
Doomheim
#13 - 2013-03-17 23:50:19 UTC
welcome to online gaming, where a bunch of smacktard neckbeards behave with impunity because no one can reach into the internet and slap them.

Just ignore them. block if they are being determinedly tedious.

One concern, what's this about needing a reason to shoot stuff? apart from the aforementioned liability of fleet warp-in on an apparently harmless ship which actually could tackle you, it's a fairly natural reaction as far as I can see.

forums.  serious business.

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#14 - 2013-03-17 23:51:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
If a corp can control traffic through a system by means of violence then it's their system until someone can kick them out, despite the game mechanics not being there to legitimise their claim, it happens in highsec, lowsec and NPC nullsec.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Asmodai Xodai
#15 - 2013-03-17 23:52:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Asmodai Xodai
Tauranon wrote:

Yes cloaky tengu will be a difficult problem for your noobship, but you can get friends on standby, and use something tankier, and then lock the tengu down for the 30 seconds or so it takes for your friends to gate and warp in on you and kill it.

oh you don't have friends...


Right, I don't have friends who play this game. And either way, I have no inclination to waste my time "getting back" at these people, I just wondered whether there was some real point I was missing - say accruing experience points for any kind of kill, etc.

As to gazelles and lions, if you read my post you would understand that I already understand the point to a lion killing a gazelle. That's utterly rational. I'm asking what's the point to doing such a thing where there is no benefit.
Ryuu Shi
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#16 - 2013-03-18 00:00:06 UTC
Solstice Project wrote:
Easy prey will always get killed first.
It's natural.


EvE wisdom at its finest. I couldn't summaries it better myself there.

Basically if they can, they will.

_**Noob **_isn't really a status, it's the online equivalent of a 5-year old calling you a poopy fart head.

  • Sun Tzu
J'Poll
MUSE LLP
RAZOR Alliance
#17 - 2013-03-18 00:02:01 UTC
Lol
+2 likes for the lion and gazelle posts after each other witin minutes.


@OP...kills give you killboard stats and thats what matter tosl some.
And you wouldnt believe what some idiots put inside their noobships.

And above all, they are killing you because its how they have fun in this game.
Just because your type of fun doesnt matches theirs doesnt mean their gameplay is wrong.
Htfu and stop whining amd learn, adapt and evolve.

Btw. Nothing can shoot you while cloaked so you did see them and you could/should have warped away before they even locked you.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club

Beekeeper Bob
Beekeepers Anonymous
#18 - 2013-03-18 00:03:26 UTC
Tauranon wrote:
Asmodai Xodai wrote:


1) Perpetrator's ship is hilariously overpowered compared to mine - Drakes, Tengus, etc. vs. noobships.

2) Perpetrator's ship is always cloaked.

3) Perpetrator always uses some kind of hilariously overpowered missle or torpedo or bomb which essentially one-shots my noobship.



A drake doesn't cloak warp, so is visible on d-scan when warping, and it takes forever to lock a noob ship with a cloak fitted and doubly so after uncloaking. ie dying to a drake in a noobship is mostly your fail.

Yes cloaky tengu will be a difficult problem for your noobship, but you can get friends on standby, and use something tankier, and then lock the tengu down for the 30 seconds or so it takes for your friends to gate and warp in on you and kill it.

oh you don't have friends...



And most of the people he's describing don't either...Unless you call their off-grid alt "A friend"...Lol

Signature removed - CCP Eterne

Nexus Day
Lustrevik Trade and Travel Bureau
#19 - 2013-03-18 00:06:08 UTC
Some people don't care where their killmails come from. It isn't about the challenge, it is about the kill.

One on one PvP in this game is based largely on gear. Being able to use gear comes from gaining SP. To gain SP all you have to do is start an account. To have better gear all you have to do is be subbed for longer than the other guy.

The "leets", such as the one that killed the OP want to have a feeding frenzy. They want to "make it rain" killmails without any real risk then call people "carebears". Irony?

Slymah
DorpCorp
#20 - 2013-03-18 00:18:13 UTC
I'm sure that's what all these litter birds and mice are thinking when my cat kills them.

After all she doesn't eat them.. She just kills things for no reason.


It really doesn't matter what the reasons are .. the only thing you need to figure out is why you are always a victim.

Try being the cat. You might like it.
123Next pageLast page