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Seemingly Mindless Pvp: Any Relevant Point?

First post
Author
Theron Vetrus
Doomheim
#141 - 2013-03-20 13:28:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Theron Vetrus
You've included a myriad of disclaimers and definitions in your OP as a feeble attempt to thwart any actual discussion at all on this (already well covered) topic. Regardless of how you try to justify it, there is one glaring fact that there simply is no getting around: EVE Online revolves around the destruction of spaceships.

"But missions..."

No.

"But mining..."

No.

"But trading..."

No.

"But..."

NO. Any advancement beyond newbship content requires more advanced gear, which is all generated by the player-driven economy. The best example of "seemingly mindless PvP" that I can think of comes from the most unlikely of places: the Market Discussions forum. There's a mercenary who is very well funded because he regularly posts his pod kills in Jita. Who funds him? Players who manufacture and sell implants.

Think about that for a moment. A bunch of traders who don't engage in PvP, and some don't even undock, are supplying another player with ships and equipment to blow up other ships for the sole purpose of earning a profit. To me, that "seemingly mindless PvP" is a prime example of what EVE Online is really all about.

Take what you can, give nothing back. Psychotic Monk for CSM8

Takseen
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#142 - 2013-03-20 13:55:37 UTC
Bloodmyst Ranwar wrote:


But yes, it is quiet funny how some pilots feel very oh so proud of themselves when they take out a tech 1 fitted frigate, whose pilot is no more then 3 months old.


Well they should, a T1 frigate should be very very hard to catch in lowsec using a regular ole cruiser.
Lady Spank
Get Out Nasty Face
#143 - 2013-03-20 13:57:38 UTC
I won't bother re-iterating the WHY of why you got blown up since you seem overly dismissive of the replies of experienced players.

Asmodai Xodai wrote:
the loss of the half-a-mil venture I lost right before it, nor the loss of another venture before that one, nor... (blah blah).

...anytime - I repeat anytime - I venture into a system with less than 0.5 security, I get killed ...

It always occurs in the exact same fashion, with the exact same hallmarks:

But nowadays, I simply venture to these places once in a while to count down how long it takes to be killed in the exact same fashion as mentioned above (usually less than 2 minutes).


All these quotes show you are not a very quick learner. If you put yourself in a bad situation and don't learn from it, how can you blame anyone but yourself if the exact same thing happens again? There are several ships you could have trained into by now which would allow you to explore the entirety of the map, including wormholes, by this time into your subscription.

Overall, you seem to expect immunity just because you want to go about your own business. Just let it be known that you need to learn how to deal with other players in order to do so. What gives you the right to expect complete freedom just because you are travelling in a woefully under-equipped ship?

I agree that there is no sport to killing noobships, but plenty of people here have pointed out just why they get blown up. Primarily, you are making yourself an easy target.

Learn to use the tools available to you and adapt to the situation

1. Learn to use the map to plan routes and find potential gatecamps

2. Learn how to use the d-scanner to see nearby or incoming ships within system and to scan gates before you warp onto them.

3. While plenty of other ships are also perfectly safe, covert-ops frigates are great for exploration.

4. If you don't want to be a victim, don't play like one.

(ಠ_ృ) ~ It Takes a Million Years to Become Diamonds So Lets Just Burn Like Coal Until the Sky's Black ~ (ಠ_ృ)

Jenn aSide
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#144 - 2013-03-20 14:02:25 UTC
Lady Spank wrote:
I won't bother re-iterating the WHY of why you got blown up since you seem overly dismissive of the replies of experienced players.

Asmodai Xodai wrote:
the loss of the half-a-mil venture I lost right before it, nor the loss of another venture before that one, nor... (blah blah).

...anytime - I repeat anytime - I venture into a system with less than 0.5 security, I get killed ...

It always occurs in the exact same fashion, with the exact same hallmarks:

But nowadays, I simply venture to these places once in a while to count down how long it takes to be killed in the exact same fashion as mentioned above (usually less than 2 minutes).


All these quotes show you are not a very quick learner. If you put yourself in a bad situation and don't learn from it, how can you blame anyone but yourself if the exact same thing happens again? There are several ships you could have trained into by now which would allow you to explore the entirety of the map, including wormholes, by this time into your subscription.

Overall, you seem to expect immunity just because you want to go about your own business. Just let it be known that you need to learn how to deal with other players in order to do so. What gives you the right to expect complete freedom just because you are travelling in a woefully under-equipped ship?

I agree that there is no sport to killing noobships, but plenty of people here have pointed out just why they get blown up. Primarily, you are making yourself an easy target.

Learn to use the tools available to you and adapt to the situation

1. Learn to use the map to plan routes and find potential gatecamps

2. Learn how to use the d-scanner to see nearby or incoming ships within system and to scan gates before you warp onto them.

3. While plenty of other ships are also perfectly safe, covert-ops frigates are great for exploration.

4. If you don't want to be a victim, don't play like one.


To the Op that post looks like this:

Lady Spank wrote:
Blah

Blahblahballtyy blah

blah

blah

effort

blah

1. blah
2. blah
3. irrevelvant blah
4 blah

and another thing, blah



Norm Tempesta
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#145 - 2013-03-20 21:57:56 UTC
There are many pilots around who are out there just to get that kill, whatever it may be. What their reasons are for wanting to kill me whatever I may be flying don't amount to anything. The fact that they will kill me if they can does. This holds true in lowsec, nullsec, even highsec.

If you need a reason for them to kill you, just pick one of many that have already been listed. The main reason is because killing other players in ships is what they do...............understand that and learn to be prepared for it, or..........be the sacrificial lamb and enjoy it.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#146 - 2013-03-20 22:13:38 UTC
Norm Tempesta wrote:
There are many pilots around who are out there just to get that kill, whatever it may be. What their reasons are for wanting to kill me whatever I may be flying don't amount to anything. The fact that they will kill me if they can does. This holds true in lowsec, nullsec, even highsec.

If you need a reason for them to kill you, just pick one of many that have already been listed. The main reason is because killing other players in ships is what they do...............understand that and learn to be prepared for it, or..........be the sacrificial lamb and enjoy it.


Why did I read that in malcolm reynolds voice?
MetaMorpheus Jones
Resilience.
Initiative Mercenaries
#147 - 2013-03-20 22:17:46 UTC
Every engagement I have every been in, win or lose, has been a learning experience. Ask not what your attacker is getting out of killing you. Ask instead what, if anything, you learned from it. Make the experience worth something to you, and you will find the "why" of your opponent's motives matter less and less.

That monocle looks ridiculous. 

Kestrix
Nascent Omega
#148 - 2013-03-20 22:20:11 UTC
To OP. Your just a target, nothing more. If you are in a noob ship your an easy target, if you are in a T3 your a hard target. The intended outcome is exactly the same, your destruction. best to keep things simple,
Komen
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#149 - 2013-03-20 22:32:14 UTC
Solstice Project wrote:
Dear OP,

-snip-

Easy prey will always get killed first.
It's natural. Except when babies are involved.


Fly manually o/


Clearly you haven't been watching youtube african safari predation videos. Hyenas pulled a being-born calf from a mother wildebeast's birth canal. Technically the thing still had its umbilicus attached.

Also a couple of players whose ships I splattered across a contact grid would probably like to argue with you about babies not being on the target list. Seriously, 2 weeks old, diving wormholes, blap.

Try again, except first wipe that silly moralistic view out of your eyes.
Remiel Pollard
The Clown Shoe Crew
#150 - 2013-03-20 23:26:34 UTC
Asmodai Xodai wrote:


RELEVANT POINT - Something that serves a strategic, tactical, or economic gaming purpose (procurement of resources; acquiring a strategic, tactical, or economic advantage; denial of such things to a rival; etc). Examples: 1) Piracy where you actually take somebody's stuff. 2) Killing mining (or other) ships in a system claimed by a corporation you work for (i.e. defending assets). 3) Hell, even honing your skills by taking on a ship that might offer some sort of challenge to you. 4) for the lulz



FYP. You left out number 4.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104

Norm Tempesta
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#151 - 2013-03-21 12:51:43 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Norm Tempesta wrote:
There are many pilots around who are out there just to get that kill, whatever it may be. What their reasons are for wanting to kill me whatever I may be flying don't amount to anything. The fact that they will kill me if they can does. This holds true in lowsec, nullsec, even highsec.

If you need a reason for them to kill you, just pick one of many that have already been listed. The main reason is because killing other players in ships is what they do...............understand that and learn to be prepared for it, or..........be the sacrificial lamb and enjoy it.


Why did I read that in malcolm reynolds voice?



Haha, sorry, he would have to put a lot of bass in his voice and get a Texas accent to get my voice down right.
Mayhaw Morgan
State War Academy
Caldari State
#152 - 2013-03-21 14:16:12 UTC
Norm Tempesta wrote:
What their reasons are for wanting to kill me whatever I may be flying don't amount to anything.


That's just dead wrong. Knowing WHY they want to kill you gives you a starting point for self-defense. In fact, just knowing THAT they want to kill you can be the difference between survival and destruction. Not everyone plays EVE as Call Of Duty In Space, and knowing the likely motives of any given player will give you an immense advantage over that player when contacting (or avoiding contacting) them.

Understanding motives is the point of this thread.
General Storm Liberty
Tejas Taco Company
#153 - 2013-03-21 18:21:39 UTC
This whole thread has been very informative.

I'm relatively new and i was wondering the exact same things as the OP.

For example, i would go to low sec and run around asteroid belts to rat, then all of the sudden.. Whack! I would think "why did this dude in some way bigger and better stuff come along and blow my nice little kestrel up?"

Now i know.

There is nothing to be gained by not trying to kill the other dude.

But, Is there anything to lose by trying to kill the other dude? beyond ships of course?

Sec status i guess? is that it?

Takseen
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#154 - 2013-03-21 18:33:52 UTC
General Storm Liberty wrote:

There is nothing to be gained by not trying to kill the other dude.
But, Is there anything to lose by trying to kill the other dude? beyond ships of course?
Sec status i guess? is that it?


Well in the short term, there's the 60 second weapons timer that stops them docking or jumping to another system.
Then the 15 minute criminal flag which um, does something or other.
There's the sec status loss, but some people wear that with pride. Others will need to spend time grinding it back up shooting red boxes(boo!)
There's the risk that you might vow revenge and come try to kill them, or pay someone else to do it. But pirates usually don't mind people coming to fight them, in my limited experience. If they wanted to just shoot people who don't shoot back, they'd do indy corp awoxing, suicide ganking or lolwardecs.
Ai Shun
#155 - 2013-03-21 19:16:33 UTC
Asmodai Xodai wrote:
No, I claimed it was my definition of a relevant point for the purposes of this discussion. Since I did this specifically to avoid posts like yours, I obviously failed.


At which point why are you even bothering to have a discussion? You've placed the primary motivation for playing a video game outside of the reasons for playing a video game that revolves around PVP. If all you're after is an echo chamber, you could get that in your bathroom talking to yourself in the mirror.
Ai Shun
#156 - 2013-03-21 19:19:06 UTC
Theron Vetrus wrote:
Think about that for a moment. A bunch of traders who don't engage in PvP, and some don't even undock, are supplying another player with ships and equipment to blow up other ships for the sole purpose of earning a profit. To me, that "seemingly mindless PvP" is a prime example of what EVE Online is really all about.


Brilliant. That is such a good example of what makes EVE so awesome.
Galaxy Pig
New Order Logistics
CODE.
#157 - 2013-03-21 19:21:51 UTC
Uhh... Ammunition is cheap and explosions are pretty? ...It was there?? ...What am I gonna do, NOT shoot you??? It's not like it takes a whole lot of motivation to [ctrl+click, F1] Jesus...

Highsec is owned by players now. Systems 0.5-1.0 are New Order Territory. All miners and other residents of Highsec must obey The Code. Mining without a permit is dangerous and harmful to the EVE community. See www.MinerBumping.com

Whitethorn Reyhold
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#158 - 2013-03-21 19:29:26 UTC
I have the simple answer to the OP question. If 1 player can think he is winning because he has the most isk, another player can think he is winning because he has the most kills. The game is just like that.
General Storm Liberty
Tejas Taco Company
#159 - 2013-03-21 19:55:32 UTC
Whitethorn Reyhold wrote:
I have the simple answer to the OP question. If 1 player can think he is winning because he has the most isk, another player can think he is winning because he has the most kills. The game is just like that.



well, this means i'm definitely not winning Eve. :(
Remiel Pollard
The Clown Shoe Crew
#160 - 2013-03-22 09:24:28 UTC
General Storm Liberty wrote:
Whitethorn Reyhold wrote:
I have the simple answer to the OP question. If 1 player can think he is winning because he has the most isk, another player can think he is winning because he has the most kills. The game is just like that.



well, this means i'm definitely not winning Eve. :(


You don't win EVE.

EVE wins you.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104