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Seemingly Mindless Pvp: Any Relevant Point?

First post
Author
Cel Nobol
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#121 - 2013-03-19 18:24:42 UTC
We pvp, because we can.

EvE's slogan should be EvE: Online - Because we can


If you want a point, kill your target, take their stuff.



EvE is a sandbox game, a big game that has spaceships with guns on them.

There you go.
Grendel Sickswitch
#122 - 2013-03-19 19:19:17 UTC
Asmodai Xodai wrote:

SEEMINGLY MINDLESS PVP - PvP which seems to have no relevant point (see above). Examples: 1) Attacking and blowing up noobships with ships that are ridiculously overpowered compared to noobships when there is absolutely nothing to gain economically, militarily, strategically, tactically, or otherwise.


there's fun to be gained.
Monnty
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#123 - 2013-03-19 19:34:33 UTC
OP

In order to understand the "Seemingly Mindless PVP" sometimes it helps to be part of the "Seemingly Mindless PVP".

Grab a ship shoot some people become enlightened.

ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#124 - 2013-03-19 20:17:26 UTC
Apply post-modern logic OP.

Instead of "why do this if it doesn't serve a purpose/point?" think "why NOT do this if it doesn't require too much effort and/or time and/or money?"

As far as the cost of ammo being greater than your noob ship... the cost is chump change to us and doesn't really factor in to our decision making (exceptions apply).

Seriously though... you're looking too deep into the subject. My thought process when PvPing is more along the lines of, "OH!! Something to shoot! Shoot it! SHOOT EET NAO!!!" with maybe some extra tactical thoughts added on depending on the difficulty of shooting said player.
Rebecha Pucontis
Doomheim
#125 - 2013-03-19 21:48:26 UTC
I don't think the OP is coming back now he has had his psychological theories and simplistic generalisations put too bed. Sad that he felt the need to pretend to ask a question when in fact he wanted to reinforce the simplistic generalisations he is clinging on too.
Asmodai Xodai
#126 - 2013-03-19 22:13:23 UTC
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:

Just an observation here. But throughout this thread you don't seem to have taken on board the many reasons people have given to you for your ships being killed. You seem to be focused upon picking out a small sub section with psychological problems and have tarred the whole of the eve player base with this label.


Not true. The reason I have dismissed many (albeit well-intentioned) reasons people have given is that they don't fit the situation I already described. Basically, people aren't reading my post carefully. For instance, I continue to hear explanations involving 'gate camps,' but I have already said that these aren't gate camps I am encountering. I continue to hear explanations involving loot that could be dropped, but (I think) I already said that they don't even sift through the loot - I know this because I come right back again after being killed only to find my cargo that was dropped unopened.

I also said that these folks don't seem to be defending corporate owned space, because these 0.4 systems I visit aren't corporate owned. Basically, I put a lot of thought into my original post which pre ruled-out a lot of reasons people would give, because I didn't want to waste time and text space.

Now, I didn't initially focus on the psycho or sociopath element. In fact I was initially wondering whether "experience points" were awarded for this kind of thing. It was others who said they loved to feast on tears or whatever, and others pointed out that lots of these kind of people exist. Basically, it has been pointed out that a group of people enjoy being assholes just to imagine the look on the 'victim's' face. So far, this explanation is the only one that seems to fit with the data I have given so far. It is what it is.

Quote:
Calling every player who enjoys hunting and blowing up other ships a sociopath is a foolish generalisation at best.


I'd love to see you quote me where I said this.
Rebecha Pucontis
Doomheim
#127 - 2013-03-19 22:23:43 UTC
As previously pointed out, no where in low sec can be officially corporation owned, but that doesn't stop people from trying to take control of a system.

Also you were lurking ominously at a gate in a noob ship, which indicates that you are a spy alt which could have compromised the other guys gate camp. I and many others commonly fly shuttles or noob ships into gate camps and simply sit them there to feed back intel. Once you learn more about the combat system in this game you will realise that gaining intel is probably the most important thing which you can do to swing the outcomes of combat in your favour.

There are a number of people who will just shoot anything as they like to see pretty explosions and graphics, so people will pretty much shoot at anything even if sometimes it gives away their position. Pro tip, you can use this weakness to your advantage if you are smart.
Asmodai Xodai
#128 - 2013-03-19 22:38:44 UTC
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:

Also you were lurking ominously at a gate in a noob ship, which indicates that you are a spy alt which could have compromised the other guys gate camp.


I never said any of these incidents occurred at gates. In fact, none of them did. They all occurred in asteroid fields. I always made it through the gates just fine. I then went flying around the asteroid fields to see how long it would take to be ganked by a cloaked cruiser. It never takes long - like 2 minutes or so in every case.

I haven't seen 0.4 sec gate camps. In fact, wouldn't sentry guns fire on the campers?
Rebecha Pucontis
Doomheim
#129 - 2013-03-19 22:46:23 UTC
I don't think many players would bother chasing a noob ship around asteroid belts in low sec in a T3 cruiser, so the specimen you were dealing with must have been having a slow day.

As for a noob ship sitting on a gate or another strategically important point then that is a different story. Also many players inherently distrust noob ships as they are free throwaway ships commonly used by spy alts.

Yes, gate guns do indeed fire upon anyone who agress within their proximetry, although if you bring a sufficiently tanked ship then it can quite easily withstand the punishment dished out. A T3 cruiser can quite easily tank the guns for long enough to get a kill.
Skeln Thargensen
Doomheim
#130 - 2013-03-19 22:52:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Skeln Thargensen
Asmodai Xodai wrote:
Not true. The reason I have dismissed many (albeit well-intentioned) reasons people have given is that they don't fit the situation I already described. Basically, people aren't reading my post carefully. For instance, I continue to hear explanations involving 'gate camps,' but I have already said that these aren't gate camps I am encountering. I continue to hear explanations involving loot that could be dropped, but (I think) I already said that they don't even sift through the loot - I know this because I come right back again after being killed only to find my cargo that was dropped unopened.


I don't see anywhere in this thread where you state where you were attacked, if you were at a star, a gate, an asteroid belt, a station etc. a gate camp doesn't have to be a bunch of dudes set up in roles, it is often just one guy in a T3 cruiser sitting off gate waiting to pop whatever comes though. Try to help us out here rather than calling us *****, will you?

EDIT: oh okay, now we're getting somewhere.

miners get killed for fun in this game. you are in grave danger if you warp to a belt in low sec as it is very easy to scan you down in with d-scan. no probes needed. particularly don't sit at the warp in beacon.

forums.  serious business.

Bloodmyst Ranwar
Leviathan Rising
#131 - 2013-03-19 23:58:58 UTC
@ OP

Welcome to Eve Online. I'm only a 2 1/2 month on player here and I get the exact same treatment as what you do. Unfortunately I do not have the tools to get back at them just yet ie. SP, Ships Isk etc...

But everytime I have a tengu/legion/tornado or whatever instapop me in my merlin, they get a nice terrible standings with me :) When the time comes and I have the appropriate tools to get back at them, they will regret it :)

But yes, it is quiet funny how some pilots feel very oh so proud of themselves when they take out a tech 1 fitted frigate, whose pilot is no more then 3 months old.
Bexar Ying
Unit 479
#132 - 2013-03-20 03:14:10 UTC
OP, you need to keep in mind that many of the players in this game are kiting on their parent's credit cards, and less than 15 years old. Just change your expectations and everything will be fine.
Asmodai Xodai
#133 - 2013-03-20 04:49:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Asmodai Xodai
Quote:
OP, you need to keep in mind that many of the players in this game are kiting on their parent's credit cards, and less than 15 years old. Just change your expectations and everything will be fine.


Very good point - something I hadn't thought of before.
Ai Shun
#134 - 2013-03-20 05:20:37 UTC
Asmodai Xodai wrote:
Definition of terms:

RELEVANT POINT - Something that serves a strategic, tactical, or economic gaming purpose (procurement of resources; acquiring a strategic, tactical, or economic advantage; denial of such things to a rival; etc). Examples: 1) Piracy where you actually take somebody's stuff. 2) Killing mining (or other) ships in a system claimed by a corporation you work for (i.e. defending assets). 3) Hell, even honing your skills by taking on a ship that might offer some sort of challenge to you.



You have already skewed the discussion by claiming that is the only definition of a relevant point. I would think that because this a video game that people play for fun and entertainment; the fun factor for them in blowing up what is a seemingly illogical target is a relevant point as it serves the purpose of the video game in terms of entertainment and fun for them.

Yes, I think it is stupid as well. But then, when somebody goes all in with a King and a Three I consider that stupid too.


Asmodai Xodai
#135 - 2013-03-20 05:57:32 UTC
Ai Shun wrote:
You have already skewed the discussion by claiming that is the only definition of a relevant point.


No, I claimed it was my definition of a relevant point for the purposes of this discussion. Since I did this specifically to avoid posts like yours, I obviously failed.
Debora Tsung
Perkone
Caldari State
#136 - 2013-03-20 09:35:06 UTC
Skeln Thargensen wrote:

miners get killed for fun in this game. you are in grave danger if you warp to a belt in low sec as it is very easy to scan you down in with d-scan. no probes needed. particularly don't sit at the warp in beacon.


Heh, You're in grave danger if You warp to a belt anywhere in this game. :)

It seems to work a lot like the crime watch systems, only the reaction times increase the more the system security status deviates from the average low sec system.

Stupidity should be a bannable offense.

Fighting back is more fun than not.

Sticky: AFK Cloaking Thread It's not pretty, but it's there.

Owena Owoked
Dedicated Individuals Committed to Killing
#137 - 2013-03-20 09:38:09 UTC
There is no reason to PvP in EVE other than to PvP. If you go out to do something other than PvP then you have already lost and you should try another game.
Disastro
Wrecking Shots
#138 - 2013-03-20 11:37:28 UTC
WarlockX wrote:
Asmodai Xodai wrote:
Inquisitor Kitchner wrote:
If you've ever studied game theory you'd get why every player shoots noobships, it's because it costs you nothing and there are possible benefits whereas not shooting you doesn't even have the possibility of benefits.


Actually, I have studied game theory. I'd be willing to bet my left testicle that the overwhelming number of people who play this game haven't (including the behavior of those you are trying to explain). In other words, I don't think people studying game theory explains this behavior.

And there is possibility of non-benefits. Everybody who shot me with a missle lost, because they paid for the missle but gained nothing. Meanwhile, I lost nothing. It's kind of funny.

Quote:
But he doesn't do it for no reason, he does it for tears. Which you duly provided. Hopefully he's seen this forum thread now aswell for a bonus session


If he imagined that I provided tears, and if he imagines that I am providing more now, then more power to him, and I hope he has a good jerk-off session over it. And you too, if that's what floats your boat.


NO sir.

I've seen people put 1 billion isk blueprints in noob ships. Not shooting every single ship, be it shuttle, noobship or what ever is dumb. By not shooting them you could've lost billions of profit. It costs you nothing to check it, it's like opening treasure chests, it doesn't matter if 99% are empty if even one in 100 has something good it's worth the effort to at least check.


This is absolutely true. Two examples from my corp history:

1. Once in delve we killed a rookie ship carrying blue prints worth about a billion isk entering from sakht (couple of years ago when IT lived there).

2. Caught a frigate carrying a nyx bpc in tribute one time


Both times the valuable items dropped. Eve is a harsh environment for noobs. But that is the way it always has been. But skipping on kills because you think they are not worthy costs you in the end. Better off killing everything and let the kill boards sort them out.
Regis Solo
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#139 - 2013-03-20 12:18:39 UTC
Man, this game is full of trolls
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#140 - 2013-03-20 12:48:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Bexar Ying wrote:
OP, you need to keep in mind that many of the players in this game are kiting on their parent's credit cards, and less than 15 years old. Just change your expectations and everything will be fine.


Looking at the average age of MMO players in general that would be true, for any other MMO. The average age of Eve players is somewhere in the late 20's or early 30's, it tends to attract a more mature audience. Some players may well be 14 or 15 but I would bet real money that most are over 30, and know for a fact that there are players well into their 50's and 60's. When I started playing I was 38, and fully expected to be one of the older players in my first player corp, I was actually one of the youngest.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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