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High Sec Hauling/Mining Kills - TY CCP for No Protection

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#281 - 2014-08-29 00:39:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Angeal MacNova wrote:
What you propose would require too many things
No, it really doesn't. It just requires you to be at your keyboard and to use your head a little.

Quote:
Also, why isn't it that you see mining fleets doing this?
Because it's not actually necessary. Ganking is laughably rare and on the off chance that it would happen, you can just write it off as a business expense and go about your business.

Quote:
Look at what? All the neutrals within 14 au in hi-sec?
Like I said: you are not qualified to discuss EVE because you are unfamiliar with how the game actually works. You are talking about things in away that makes it blatantly obvious that you are spouting hearsay and second-hand accounts about how they (maybe, occasionally) work — you haven't actually used them yourself.

You look at the list of ship and compare with what right around you. This has been explained to you but again, your unfamiliarity with the game means you are not actually able to process what's being said. Instead, you just kept going and are now of the incorrect belief that no-one has explained how to use the cornucopia of tools the game affords you.

Quote:
It's called they are doing the best option available but even the best option doesn't stop ganking completely.
Then it is very clearly not the best option available, since using the best option pretty much guarantees safety from ganking. vOv

But I suppose that what you're really saying here is that they're just a bunch of cry-babies since they are demanding something that “stops ganking completely”, which is such an idiotic demand that it beggars belief.

Oh, and since you didn't comment on it, I also suppose that you managed to figure out why gankers camping a belt is jackpot for the miners…?
The-Culture
#282 - 2014-08-29 00:39:56 UTC
*raises hand*
Example: You are mining alone in your belt, happily munching away at hapless asteroids.
You have your Dscan set to, oh, I dunno... just short of the distance to the next belt.
Anything that is NOT a mining barge appears on it, you assume it means you harm and move.
Suspect even another barge... it might be there to provide a warpin for others.

You don't have to nom every rock til 'teh asteroid is defeated'. If you plot a course across the belt and pretarget the juicies as you approach them you can get a few cycles in on each of them as you pass. Also because you're already moving and pointed at where your GTFO point is you can already be in the process of warping away before anything scary finishes landing on grid.

The people who are telling you this works are doing so because it has worked for them in the past to avoid being ganked.
It's worked for me. Heck, it's worked for people I was trying to kill... they were paying more attention to Dscan than I was and instead of landing in a mission pocket with a preoccupied shiny battleship I found myself landing alone in a pocket full of pissed off elite frigates and surly looking gurista battleships.

Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.

A Band Apart.
#283 - 2014-08-29 00:42:01 UTC
Angeal MacNova wrote:


Look at what? All the neutrals within 14 au in hi-sec? I've yet to see anyone explain the use of d-scan as a way of catching gankers before they land on grid. Someone ganks you so you mark them red. Great, you know when a ganker is in system. They'll also show up on overview but by then it's too late. D-scan only tells you ship name (which can be anything and can be changed) and ship class (which doesn't equate to ganker). So how do you identify a ganker on D-scan?



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.....What the hell did I just read?
#284 - 2014-08-29 00:44:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Ned Thomas wrote:
What the hell did I just read?

An account of how to use dscan to find something specific from someone who has never tried to use dscan to find something specific. What?
Gallente Federation
#285 - 2014-08-29 00:48:09 UTC
Zero Sum Gain wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Miners are literally space bums.


Clearly you haven't seen the movie There Will Be Blood.


pretty sure miners are worse than that guy

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#286 - 2014-08-29 00:48:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Angeal MacNova wrote:

What you propose would require too many things and it still wouldn't be as effective as what miners do now. Tanked skiffs.

1. Your alignment would have to take you across the belt. Doable with a safe spot because you won't always have something to warp to that will take you across the belt.
Celestial Objects and bookmarks. Prior planning prevents pshhh poor performance.

Quote:
2. You will have to be constantly switching from rock to rock. You compare strip miner range to the belt as a whole when you should be comparing it to individual rocks.

3. Because you will not be in range to mine each rock before they get out of range, you'll have to turn round. You'd be lucky to do this in 2 runs meaning you would need two bookmarks (one for each direction) which isn't hard but a competent ganker will warp in as you turn around meaning you won't be aligned to either bookmark.
A Mackinaw travels at approx 100m/s, it takes around 4.5 minutes to cover 30KM, more than enough time to get a full cycle in and either switch to the next rock or appropriate celestial/bookmark.

Quote:
Also, why isn't it that you see mining fleets doing this? Because it doesn't work. If it worked, then you would see hulk fleets doing this instead of skiff fleets not doing this. So go ahead and tell me all about how you've done this marvelous "defense" with great success. Roll
It does work, but it's not really needed unless you've pissed off the wrong people.

Quote:
Look at what? All the neutrals within 14 au in hi-sec? I've yet to see anyone explain the use of d-scan as a way of catching gankers before they land on grid. Someone ganks you so you mark them red. Great, you know when a ganker is in system. They'll also show up on overview but by then it's too late. D-scan only tells you ship name (which can be anything and can be changed) and ship class (which doesn't equate to ganker). So how do you identify a ganker on D-scan?
He'll generally be flying a Catalyst, there's usually a few of them and I doubt most gankers bother to change the default ship name of a ship whose lifespan can be measured in seconds, even if they do it'll be probably be something obvious like Tear Collector, or Permit Inspector.

Quote:
Sorry but, use D-scanner and watch for gankers isn't an explanation at all. How do you recognize a ganker on d-scan in hi-sec?
If you're mining, and there are gankers in local, if there's a Catalyst within 1M KM of you, there's a pretty good chance he's a ganker, if there's more than one Catalyst within 1M KM of you then they're almost certainly gankers.

It's not hard.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

#287 - 2014-08-29 00:52:20 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
You can do something about it yourself. No need to ask CCP for help.

You already have big guns too. Just like the other guy does. You just choose not to train for them, or not to use them. That's not the fault of the other guy who is just having fun. He doesn't mean anything against you personally.

The typical EvE illogical response.

"You can have big guns like then". Not always. Anyone that has been playing longer than you has the opportunity to have better skills and better equipment than you and can always maintain this advantage until you reach all fives. Great advice telling someone to fight fire with a match when the other guy has a flamethrower.

And there is a fine line between "another guy just having fun" and "intentionally causing misery to others". Bullies enjoy bullying people. But hey let's let them off the hook because they get pleasure from their sadistic tendencies.

It doesn't have to be personal to have a negative effect on someone.

To the OP, you have just been the butt of CCPs cruel joke. Most other games try to separate players by rank or playstyle. CCP wants you to think that they do, but in fact they pretty much throw you to the wolves then laugh at posts like this.
ChaosTheory.
#288 - 2014-08-29 00:53:34 UTC
Angeal MacNova wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Several posters, many of whom know a great deal more about game mechanics, and ganking, than yourself have explained, in detail, how you can use DScan


Sorry but, use D-scanner and watch for gankers isn't an explanation at all. How do you recognize a ganker on d-scan in hi-sec?


This looks like one of those facepalm moments.

But it's typical. High Sec is safe so it doesn't really encourage players to actually learn how to use tools the game gives. In low, null and WH space, your survival tends to revovle around yoru ability to use those tools and be aware, but for most people in high sec you don't even have to have local up.

You're honestly arguing with people about someting without be well versed in the thing being argued lol. Epic.
#289 - 2014-08-29 00:55:56 UTC
Angeal MacNova wrote:

It's called they are doing the best option available but even the best option doesn't stop ganking completely and that's what they are looking for.


No, what they are looking for is as little effort as possible.

That's why they won't do the one thing that guarantees them complete safety, paying attention. Because paying attention requires more effort than zero.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Amarr Empire
#290 - 2014-08-29 00:57:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Cancel Align NOW
Angeal MacNova wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Several posters, many of whom know a great deal more about game mechanics, and ganking, than yourself have explained, in detail, how you can use DScan


Sorry but, use D-scanner and watch for gankers isn't an explanation at all. How do you recognize a ganker on d-scan in hi-sec?


1. Look up zkillboard (or any other board) and look for losses in the shiptype you wish to fly. Identify the most common ship types used in the game to gank the ship type you wish to fly.

2. In game go to overview settings and make an overview that only shows
a. The top 10 ship types used to gank the hull you wish to fly.
b. The stations
c. The gates

3. Lets call this Simple defense #1.

4. TAB to this overview while in belt mining.

5. Open Dscan. Select use active overview for Dscan. Set angle for scan 360 degrees. Set distance at longest possible distance where no stations or gates show on dscan.

6. Hit Dscan. Once every 30-40 seconds and every time the number of pilots in local changes (yes I know that might mean every 5-6 seconds). If any of those ship types show up on dscan its time to align and prepare to warp out.

7. If a ship type shows up on dscan do not warp immediately, wait until they land on grid.

7a. If they land at/close to optimal for the common fit type used by gankers to kill your ship type, spam warp immediately.

7b. If they land close to another pilot get ready to activate your drones.

8. Add pilot to contact list and set corp/alliance -10.

9. Add pilot and all other corp mates in system to your watchlist.

10. If they were successful in ganking another pilot in the same belt, return to belt and mine happily with your concord insta support.

11. If concord insta support disappears while pilot/corp/alliance are in system. Align and repeat steps 7 on.

Once comfortable using Dscan like this you can start to change attributes.

11a. Change dscan distance range to include one station reduce angle to 30 degrees and scan. If you see a number of the specific shiptypes in scan you now know where they are coming from. There is a high chance they have an office in that station.

11b. When local numbers change, alter scan range and angle to pick up only one gate - scan 5 times over 30 seconds. Again if shiptypes show up you now know where they are coming from.

11c. When good at altering ranges and angles you can: scan gate 1. alter scan gate 2. alter scan gate 3 alter scan gate 1 alter....
#291 - 2014-08-29 00:59:25 UTC
Nexus Day wrote:

And there is a fine line between "another guy just having fun" and "intentionally causing misery to others". Bullies enjoy bullying people. But hey let's let them off the hook because they get pleasure from their sadistic tendencies.


There is no line at all, no distinction, because this is acceptable.

PvP'ing in a PvP game is not "bullying", no matter how you want to redefine the terms to favor you. It is not "bullying" if I shoot someone in Battlefield. In fact, if they suck and don't keep cover, it's not "bullying" if I shoot them a bunch of times, because they don't get the point yet.

It is not "bullying" if I take your money when you land on a hotel in Monopoly.

In fact, it's the entire point of the game.

You just seem to want to play the not by it's own actual rules, but by the rules as you think they should be.

That's called being delusional.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

#292 - 2014-08-29 01:00:09 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
[quote=Angeal MacNova]

It's not hard.


So what is it Jonah? Is EvE a hard game or is it not hard? You just had to write a novel on how easy things are. Does that seem a tad ironic?

If Monopoly came with an encyclopedia of rules not many people would play it.
#293 - 2014-08-29 01:04:55 UTC
Kiandoshia wrote:
Duchess Amarrian wrote:
high sec is really a joke.


This, essentially.


Being unprepared and putting all your eggs in one basket to make a nice juicy target for a suicide gank is the joke here, not highsec.

There are a multitude of ways to protect yourself from suicide gankers, people just automatically assume they're "safe" in highsec, then get annoyed when they lose a ship because of their own lack of spatial awareness.

CCP Falcon || EVE Universe Community Manager || @CCP_Falcon

Happy Birthday To FAWLTY7! <3

#294 - 2014-08-29 01:06:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Jenn aSide wrote:
But it's typical. High Sec is safe so it doesn't really encourage players to actually learn how to use tools the game gives. In low, null and WH space, your survival tends to revovle around yoru ability to use those tools and be aware, but for most people in high sec you don't even have to have local up.
QFT I was living in wormholes within 2 months of starting Eve, paranoia is most definitely a survival trait, I still spam DScan even though I now live in highsec. Having local narrow in width but full screen height and locked to the right of my screen is also a leftover from those days, nullsec statics are fun.

Nexus Day wrote:
So what is it Jonah? Is EvE a hard game or is it not hard? You just had to write a novel on how easy things are. Does that seem a tad ironic?

If Monopoly came with an encyclopedia of rules not many people would play it.
What is novel like about "If you're mining, and there are gankers in local, if there's a Catalyst within 1M KM of you, there's a pretty good chance he's a ganker, if there's more than one Catalyst within 1M KM of you then they're almost certainly gankers."?

The not hard refers to the very last quote in my post, the rest of it was a reply to another post entirely, albeit from the same poster.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

#295 - 2014-08-29 01:07:06 UTC
Perhaps it could be the time to find an active corporation that will actually help you to play and enjoy Eve. Try null sec. Mining in null sec with active players, intel channels and a whole range of different options if you have the will to try something other than mining should be more than willing to take on a player willing to learn, eager to enjoy the game and new faces are always welcome in decent corporations.

If you don't want to PvP that might be okay too, especially in an industry heavy corporation/alliance, however it's not difficult and in many null alliances/coalitions PvP can be affordable or down right profitable.

The point is, play with people and listen to advice given to you by people with the most recent experiences, as this game changes fast. The best players keep up with the changes and actively teach/write down what's changed, why it's changed and how to get the most out of those changes.

Never stand still in Eve, you will get left behind.

Get a microphone/headset - scan the recruitment thread. Look at the ingame recruitment adverts. Get on their comms and try and get a feel for their entire corporation. It's not necessarily what they can do for you, but whether or not you're going to actually enjoy and look forward to logging in when you can, between your real life commitments.

Use the tools available to you, if you don't know what those tools are, ask questions, listen to the answers. Practice those methods - see if they work for you, tweak them so they DO work for you.

Or you're just filling up bingo squares, trolling the forums and congrats you've got 15 pages.

Its time to stand up against the bad empire based CEO telling falsehoods about what new characters can accomplish and pushing them towards an in game experience of drudgery and loneliness keeping them in the shadow of ignorance for at nest their own profit at worse apathy towards all the experiences that Eve has to offer.

#296 - 2014-08-29 01:07:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Paranoid Loyd
INB4 whiners nitpick Falcon's latest post instead of trying to understand what he is saying. Lol

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!

A Band Apart.
#297 - 2014-08-29 01:08:48 UTC
Cancel Align NOW wrote:

All kinds of gospel


Gospel, I say.
#298 - 2014-08-29 01:12:32 UTC
Tam Althor wrote:
Remember CCP Falcon, the level of protection that concord provides players is the same level of job protection you have when the high sec players decide to quit. Will you survive the next 20% layoff when it happens?


I love EVE and the core of what the game stands for. That's why I've been dedicated to it and its community for over 11 years now.

Risk vs Reward is a huge part of that.

Honestly, if that changed, and the game started to soften out and cater to those who want to have their hand held all the way through their gameplay experience, I'd rather not be working on the project regardless of how many subscribers we had, than sell out the core principles that New Eden was built on.

That's a sentiment that I hear a lot around the office, because we are all invested in what makes New Eden so compelling - The dark, gritty, hard reality beneath the pretty ships and nebulas.

EVE is built on the core principle that you are never 100% safe, no matter where you go or what you do. When you interact with another player, you roll the dice on whether they're going to screw you over or not. That's a massive part of the social engineering behind the very basic underpinnings of the EVE Universe.

Sorry, but your scaremongering counter argument makes no sense to me and carries no weight Smile




CCP Falcon || EVE Universe Community Manager || @CCP_Falcon

Happy Birthday To FAWLTY7! <3

#299 - 2014-08-29 01:13:47 UTC
Kiandoshia wrote:
Duchess Amarrian wrote:
High sec is not safe. Fly accordingly.


This, essentially.


Fixed.
#300 - 2014-08-29 01:14:19 UTC
Nexus Day wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
[quote=Angeal MacNova]

It's not hard.


So what is it Jonah? Is EvE a hard game or is it not hard? You just had to write a novel on how easy things are. Does that seem a tad ironic?

If Monopoly came with an encyclopedia of rules not many people would play it.



Basic rules of Eve could be:

1) Have fun.
2) Spend time with people whose company you enjoy
3) Try everything at least once
4) Remember skill points aren't everything, but a focused plan is better than a jack of all trades in the short term.
5) Have fun.

If you're not doing 1,2 and 5 to the best of your ability 3 and 4 won't make any difference to your enjoyment of Eve. It's not CCP's fault they provide the tools, it's up to you as a subscriber to implement those tools to create your own content and provide fun.

Eve isn't difficult per se, it's just the questions are difficult to understand. Once you have your questions, there's a whole range of resources available that can provide, if not a direct answer, then certainly a path to follow to understanding.

Use the test server, to trial different stuff too. Vastly under rated tool.

Its time to stand up against the bad empire based CEO telling falsehoods about what new characters can accomplish and pushing them towards an in game experience of drudgery and loneliness keeping them in the shadow of ignorance for at nest their own profit at worse apathy towards all the experiences that Eve has to offer.

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