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Has suicide ganking become a problem? Empty freighters being ganked.

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Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#521 - 2014-06-19 13:02:00 UTC
Sarah Flynt wrote:
Ramona McCandless wrote:
So... its a legitimate tactic to bring a NPC corp alt in an ibis along with your freighter and a guy in a frigate in your corp, and every jump, kill the alt, summon concord and then jump, reship and repeat at each jump?

That just doesnt sound right to me

It is a legitimate tactic if you don't biomass that alt without getting his sec status up again. But it won't help you much as the one CONCORD spawn will only deal with one of the many gank ships. You'd have to bring more at once, depending on the size of the gank fleet.


It's actually not a legitimate tactic. Pre-spawning CONCORD for your own defense is an actionable offense.

Now that you've copped to it on the forums, I highly suggest that you don't keep doing it.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#522 - 2014-06-19 13:06:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Benny Ohu
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Sarah Flynt wrote:

It is a legitimate tactic if you don't biomass that alt without getting his sec status up again. But it won't help you much as the one CONCORD spawn will only deal with one of the many gank ships. You'd have to bring more at once, depending on the size of the gank fleet.


" But it won't help you much as the one CONCORD spawn will only deal with one of the many gank ships. You'd have to bring more at once, depending on the size of the gank fleet." - Dont understand this, CONCORD hang around for a while or called elsewhere, and they attack anyone who ganks, not just one ship? Am I missing something here? Have I misunderstood you?

it's a misunderstanding. one concord fleet is summoned per ganker, but only one fleet will kill all gankers in range

e: a misunderstanding not on your part. also i lost my place in this thread and i don't know where to start reading
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#523 - 2014-06-19 13:07:26 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Sarah Flynt wrote:

It is a legitimate tactic if you don't biomass that alt without getting his sec status up again. But it won't help you much as the one CONCORD spawn will only deal with one of the many gank ships. You'd have to bring more at once, depending on the size of the gank fleet.


" But it won't help you much as the one CONCORD spawn will only deal with one of the many gank ships. You'd have to bring more at once, depending on the size of the gank fleet." - Dont understand this, CONCORD hang around for a while or called elsewhere, and they attack anyone who ganks, not just one ship? Am I missing something here? Have I misunderstood you?

it's a misunderstanding. one concord fleet is summoned per ganker, but only one fleet will kill all gankers in range

e: a misunderstanding not on your part. also i lost my place in this thread and i don't know where to start reading


Oh ok cool, thank you for clearing that up

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#524 - 2014-06-19 13:14:10 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Sarah Flynt wrote:
Ramona McCandless wrote:
So... its a legitimate tactic to bring a NPC corp alt in an ibis along with your freighter and a guy in a frigate in your corp, and every jump, kill the alt, summon concord and then jump, reship and repeat at each jump?

That just doesnt sound right to me

It is a legitimate tactic if you don't biomass that alt without getting his sec status up again. But it won't help you much as the one CONCORD spawn will only deal with one of the many gank ships. You'd have to bring more at once, depending on the size of the gank fleet.


It's actually not a legitimate tactic. Pre-spawning CONCORD for your own defense is an actionable offense.

Now that you've copped to it on the forums, I highly suggest that you don't keep doing it.


Well there IS at least one (very old) dev post saying it's ok....so we should probably hope we get some clarity for everyone's sakes.

CCP Atropos wrote:
The reasoning is that you're deliberately using free ships (noob frigates) and alts to bypass the risk and penalties incurred by angering CONCORD. The incurred penalties are ignored since there's no financial loss, and no meaningful security loss, since you would delete the character afterwards.

Of course, if you're willing to live with these penalties, and don't delete the offending character, then there's no problem, since it is working as intended (you lose your ship, become criminally flagged, and incur a security hit). Although no one will really like you since you're spawning CONCORD to cover your own money making schemes Cool

How about getting some players to help you mine in safety?


I haven't seen a dev post refuting this (please someone link it if there is one).
Heinrich Erquilenne
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#525 - 2014-06-19 13:51:50 UTC
If you're stupid enough to fly an overly expensive ship yes you will get ganked, because it's profitable. The real survival strategy isn't to fly safe, it's to fly cheap. No need to fit 20M worth of named modules on a freighter, the most basic and inexpensive T2, along with a purely tanking fit, will likely drive any ganker away. Also if you fly a 200M+ ship, expect to be attacked anywhere. Because it's worth it.
Bing Bangboom
DAMAG Safety Commission
#526 - 2014-06-19 14:51:55 UTC
Just over two years ago, James 315 bumped a mining ship. And he was told it didn't amount to anything. But he kept at it.

Twenty one months ago, a group of people joined him and bumped a lot of mining ships. We were told it wouldn't last. That it wasn't bothering the miners but oh yeah, they were petitioning us for "harassment".

A year and a half ago, the first CODE. Knights appeared and Code enforcement entered a new era. As of today, 33,783 ships and pods, worth 4.4 trillion ISK have been destroyed in the name of an idea.

This is an amazing thread but the truly amazing thing is only referenced a few times. James 315 set out to save highsec, and despite every roadblock set up in his way, is saving it today. Every place where some player thought he could safely mine, or haul or mission in highsec has been rooted out and attacked by the New Order. It doesn't matter to us if ganking freighters is profitable because we don't do it for the ISK. It doesn't matter to us if other people attack permit holders (they don't except verbally) because we don't tell anyone we are protecting them. It especially doesn't matter to us if someone wants to debate about "reality" and how the police in Eve should act.

What matters to us is that we said we are going to enforce a code on highsec and that everyone was going to follow it and WE ARE STILL DOING IT. We have always said it was going to take a long time and we expected considerable resistance from those who, as famously noted MANY times, think that is perfectly OK to take an expensive ship, siddle up next to an asteroid, start the lasers and then go do the laundry. Or AFK billions in a freighter. Or accept any player into their corps. We KNOW they aren't going to like it because them not liking it is sort of the point.

The Eve forums are famous for things disappearing down the rabbit hole with time. Threadnaughts disappear within days and weeks. I see a lot of posters here who months and even years ago said the same things about us. That we had no effect, we couldn't last, someone would stop us.

And yet, here we are. Debating another escalation of the New Order Code compliance campaign and the cry for CCP to do something because NOW we've gone too far. I can tell you what will stop us. When all of highsec is Code compliant and every player knows that pressing the undock button may mean sudden death unless he is absolutely prepared for what lies on the other side of that wall.

Highsec is worth fighting for.

Bing Bangboom
Agent of the New Order of Highsec
Belligerent Undesirable



Highsec is worth fighting for.

By choosing to mine in New Order systems, highsec miners have agreed to follow the New Halaima Code of Conduct.  www.minerbumping.com
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#527 - 2014-06-19 15:08:45 UTC
Bing Bangboom wrote:
Just over two years ago, James 315 bumped a mining ship. And he was told it didn't amount to anything. But he kept at it.

Twenty one months ago, a group of people joined him and bumped a lot of mining ships. We were told it wouldn't last. That it wasn't bothering the miners but oh yeah, they were petitioning us for "harassment".

A year and a half ago, the first CODE. Knights appeared and Code enforcement entered a new era. As of today, 33,783 ships and pods, worth 4.4 trillion ISK have been destroyed in the name of an idea.

This is an amazing thread but the truly amazing thing is only referenced a few times. James 315 set out to save highsec, and despite every roadblock set up in his way, is saving it today. Every place where some player thought he could safely mine, or haul or mission in highsec has been rooted out and attacked by the New Order. It doesn't matter to us if ganking freighters is profitable because we don't do it for the ISK. It doesn't matter to us if other people attack permit holders (they don't except verbally) because we don't tell anyone we are protecting them. It especially doesn't matter to us if someone wants to debate about "reality" and how the police in Eve should act.

What matters to us is that we said we are going to enforce a code on highsec and that everyone was going to follow it and WE ARE STILL DOING IT. We have always said it was going to take a long time and we expected considerable resistance from those who, as famously noted MANY times, think that is perfectly OK to take an expensive ship, siddle up next to an asteroid, start the lasers and then go do the laundry. Or AFK billions in a freighter. Or accept any player into their corps. We KNOW they aren't going to like it because them not liking it is sort of the point.

The Eve forums are famous for things disappearing down the rabbit hole with time. Threadnaughts disappear within days and weeks. I see a lot of posters here who months and even years ago said the same things about us. That we had no effect, we couldn't last, someone would stop us.

And yet, here we are. Debating another escalation of the New Order Code compliance campaign and the cry for CCP to do something because NOW we've gone too far. I can tell you what will stop us. When all of highsec is Code compliant and every player knows that pressing the undock button may mean sudden death unless he is absolutely prepared for what lies on the other side of that wall.

Highsec is worth fighting for.

Bing Bangboom
Agent of the New Order of Highsec
Belligerent Undesirable





This is that thing that is sooo central to EVE, and what makes EVE so fun for those who get it, while at the same time being so god-awful to the people who don't get it (and who should probably not be playing EVE in the 1st place):

Enforcing your will on other people.

That's what those CODE guys (and lots of other players, including the null sec alliances) do. MAKE people react to them. That's why people like that fit into a sandbox mmo.

The 'just want to be left alone crowd' are people whould should either be playing a single player game or should be playing some multi-player game that allows for 'private servers' where they can set the rules. But rather than do that, they play EVE and get mad when they get bitten by the above mentioned central theme of the game:

Enforcing your will on other people.

As a pve player who fits, I do this all the time. In high sec I enforce my will to not be an hilarious killmail for someone by keeping a damage control (more EHP), MJD (if the ganker is stupid enough to disrupt me but not scram me, his fault lol), energy neut (one good pulse and blam, point off and i can warp/MJD) and ECM drones (self explanitory) on my mission machariel while not pimping out my other mods to much. Not flying that mach on Jenn aSide also helps (call it a 'GD tank' lol).

In null I do the exact same kinds fo things, plus fit things like ECM burst and smartbombs (sometimes cpetor pilots are dumb and get too close in their rush to scram you, not that it happens often. Time and Time and time again I've avoided being killed, last time I was killed was in low sec in a Gila because I jumped into a gate camp while on the phone (so even though I was fit to surive, I died for being dumb and unaware).

While i see you CODE guys tongue in cheek trying to 'educate' people, the real truth is that people play to their personalities. Someone who is too greedy for fake game cash and too lazy to care about what ship they fly in a game till it explodes, is never ever going to change.
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#528 - 2014-06-19 15:14:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Benny Ohu
Jenn aSide wrote:

I disagree, what's most central to EVE is interacting with other people, which can include things such as being able to (attempt to) enforce your will

e: And removing the ability to enforce your will removes a very important type of player interaction
Galega Ori
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#529 - 2014-06-19 15:52:59 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:
Some men just want to watch the world burn.

There's space for us all in New Eden.



and apparently some DEVs like to watch CCP burn. If you haven't realized (which is odd because you work for CCP) but EVE is the world and CCP thrives on that world. Maybe CCP needs to do some more layoffs before they realize "hey we have some major problems in EVE that need fixing". Gankers/Griefing in eve being a small part of it in my opinion but no less a significant cause to EVEs population of actual players and active players not being as big as it could be.

side note:
CCPs last layoff was around June 5th (time of post on forum) with around 49 employees in publishing without a job. the previous layoff was around the beginning of April with around 56 employees out of Atlanta with no job. That's already 105 CCP employees without a job this year alone. Do we really want to see more of this?

Besides the griefing being an issue, eves market is also an issue. To think that not long ago around 2009 you could buy a Armagedon for 50mil but now they cost upwards of 170mil. That's an inflation of over triple its cost in 2009 and then you add on to that the around 100mil to fit the ship.

CCP in my opinion needs to STOP listening to this player base on what needs to be done and take a step back to do what they NEED to do to keep CCP a float and make EVE what it NEEDS to be to be a successful game once again. One thing that could be done is go and ask those old players that are no longer on EVE two simple questions.

1. why did they leave EVE?

and

2. what would they like to see to make them want to return to EVE?


P.S.

I do not wish to see any more layoffs in CCP, I would like to see CCP get back on its feet and back to the awsome work I know they can do. I'm never happy to see someone lose there job, especially if that job was working on something they love and have a great passion for.

Come on CCP "spaceships is serious business" get to it.

CCP Eterne: Silly Player, ALL devs are evil.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#530 - 2014-06-19 16:12:19 UTC
Galega Ori wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:
Some men just want to watch the world burn.

There's space for us all in New Eden.



and apparently some DEVs like to watch CCP burn. If you haven't realized (which is odd because you work for CCP) but EVE is the world and CCP thrives on that world. Maybe CCP needs to do some more layoffs before they realize "hey we have some major problems in EVE that need fixing". Gankers/Griefing in eve being a small part of it in my opinion but no less a significant cause to EVEs population of actual players and active players not being as big as it could be.

side note:
CCPs last layoff was around June 5th (time of post on forum) with around 49 employees in publishing without a job. the previous layoff was around the beginning of April with around 56 employees out of Atlanta with no job. That's already 105 CCP employees without a job this year alone. Do we really want to see more of this?

Besides the griefing being an issue, eves market is also an issue. To think that not long ago around 2009 you could buy a Armagedon for 50mil but now they cost upwards of 170mil. That's an inflation of over triple its cost in 2009 and then you add on to that the around 100mil to fit the ship.

CCP in my opinion needs to STOP listening to this player base on what needs to be done and take a step back to do what they NEED to do to keep CCP a float and make EVE what it NEEDS to be to be a successful game once again. One thing that could be done is go and ask those old players that are no longer on EVE two simple questions.

1. why did they leave EVE?

and

2. what would they like to see to make them want to return to EVE?


P.S.

I do not wish to see any more layoffs in CCP, I would like to see CCP get back on its feet and back to the awsome work I know they can do. I'm never happy to see someone lose there job, especially if that job was working on something they love and have a great passion for.

Come on CCP "spaceships is serious business" get to it.
Eve is dying post number 289,786,772. But this one comes with added tin foil.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#531 - 2014-06-19 16:12:35 UTC
Mag's wrote:
Evei Shard wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
They can get round it using alts but they shouldn't have to unless they want to.


..but freighter pilots should be required to have alts.
No, but if they wish to use the tools provided by CCP, then asking friends for help in an MMO will work. Kinda like the gankers do. Blink

Gankers don't have friends. We just have people that we don't shoot at. At least that's what the last retriever I killed told me.

Founder of Violet Squadron, a small gang NPSI community! Mail me for more information.

BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie's Space Mediation Service!
Mag's
Azn Empire
#532 - 2014-06-19 16:14:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Evei Shard wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
They can get round it using alts but they shouldn't have to unless they want to.


..but freighter pilots should be required to have alts.
No, but if they wish to use the tools provided by CCP, then asking friends for help in an MMO will work. Kinda like the gankers do. Blink

Gankers don't have friends. We just have people that we don't shoot at. At least that's what the last retriever I killed told me.
Well we are all sociopaths, which might be the reason why.

I also suck and don't do real PvP, when I camp gates. So I'm told. Big smile

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Noragli
Doomheim
#533 - 2014-06-19 16:34:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Noragli
Galega Ori wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:
Some men just want to watch the world burn.

There's space for us all in New Eden.



and apparently some DEVs like to watch CCP burn. If you haven't realized (which is odd because you work for CCP) but EVE is the world and CCP thrives on that world. Maybe CCP needs to do some more layoffs before they realize "hey we have some major problems in EVE that need fixing". Gankers/Griefing in eve being a small part of it in my opinion but no less a significant cause to EVEs population of actual players and active players not being as big as it could be.

side note:
CCPs last layoff was around June 5th (time of post on forum) with around 49 employees in publishing without a job. the previous layoff was around the beginning of April with around 56 employees out of Atlanta with no job. That's already 105 CCP employees without a job this year alone. Do we really want to see more of this?

Besides the griefing being an issue, eves market is also an issue. To think that not long ago around 2009 you could buy a Armagedon for 50mil but now they cost upwards of 170mil. That's an inflation of over triple its cost in 2009 and then you add on to that the around 100mil to fit the ship.

CCP in my opinion needs to STOP listening to this player base on what needs to be done and take a step back to do what they NEED to do to keep CCP a float and make EVE what it NEEDS to be to be a successful game once again. One thing that could be done is go and ask those old players that are no longer on EVE two simple questions.

1. why did they leave EVE?

and

2. what would they like to see to make them want to return to EVE?


P.S.

I do not wish to see any more layoffs in CCP, I would like to see CCP get back on its feet and back to the awsome work I know they can do. I'm never happy to see someone lose there job, especially if that job was working on something they love and have a great passion for.

Come on CCP "spaceships is serious business" get to it.


Very true, said in words slightly different than my own. EVE is a game world, not the real world. If CCP devs want to see their game burn, it'll be there loss when there's nothing left to burn, and the playerbase has shrunk to just a handful of people who enjoy "imposing their will" (read griefing) on other players (took that from a previous post)
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#534 - 2014-06-19 16:44:03 UTC
Noragli wrote:
If CCP devs want to see their game burn,

it's not

Noragli wrote:
"imposing their will" (read griefing) on other players

actually, it's legitimate gameplay. griefing is against the eula and if you see anyone griefing please report them immediately
Xinivrae
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#535 - 2014-06-19 16:44:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Xinivrae
Galega Ori wrote:
Some garbage

Ah yes, I distinctly remember all those articles covering the layoff saying, "if only the suicide ganking would stop, this would have never happened!" I mean it's just so clearly the problem, and definitely part of the "cold harsh universe" tag that has been selling the game for over a decade. No no no, if I remember the tag was "Like the game Desert Bus, but in space" and "stare at rocks for hours while nothing happens." Yea, now those are taglines to sell a game my friend.
Xinivrae
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#536 - 2014-06-19 16:48:58 UTC
Noragli wrote:
the playerbase has shrunk

*citation needed
Radric Davids
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#537 - 2014-06-19 16:55:38 UTC
Ganking empty freighters is not financially sustainable, so gankers are paying to be able to do so.

Freighter pilots can definitely avoid getting ganked by not autopiloting, being smart about scouting/intel and choosing their routes.

Autopiloting a freighter through a 0.5 system is stupid and you deserve to get ganked for being an idiot. Keep your tears to yourselves.
Komi Toran
Perkone
Caldari State
#538 - 2014-06-19 17:00:58 UTC
Quinn Hatfield wrote:
So why are the people who are doing the dying and complaining not making space money hand over fist from the opportunities an activity like ganking provides?

Shhh... quiet. You're going to ruin it for the rest of us!
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#539 - 2014-06-19 17:04:08 UTC
Galega Ori wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:
Some men just want to watch the world burn.

There's space for us all in New Eden.



and apparently some DEVs like to watch CCP burn. If you haven't realized (which is odd because you work for CCP) but EVE is the world and CCP thrives on that world. Maybe CCP needs to do some more layoffs before they realize "hey we have some major problems in EVE that need fixing". Gankers/Griefing in eve being a small part of it in my opinion but no less a significant cause to EVEs population of actual players and active players not being as big as it could be.

side note:
CCPs last layoff was around June 5th (time of post on forum) with around 49 employees in publishing without a job. the previous layoff was around the beginning of April with around 56 employees out of Atlanta with no job. That's already 105 CCP employees without a job this year alone. Do we really want to see more of this?

Besides the griefing being an issue, eves market is also an issue. To think that not long ago around 2009 you could buy a Armagedon for 50mil but now they cost upwards of 170mil. That's an inflation of over triple its cost in 2009 and then you add on to that the around 100mil to fit the ship.

CCP in my opinion needs to STOP listening to this player base on what needs to be done and take a step back to do what they NEED to do to keep CCP a float and make EVE what it NEEDS to be to be a successful game once again. One thing that could be done is go and ask those old players that are no longer on EVE two simple questions.

1. why did they leave EVE?

and

2. what would they like to see to make them want to return to EVE?


P.S.

I do not wish to see any more layoffs in CCP, I would like to see CCP get back on its feet and back to the awsome work I know they can do. I'm never happy to see someone lose there job, especially if that job was working on something they love and have a great passion for.

Come on CCP "spaceships is serious business" get to it.


This is why I want NPC corp posters banned from GD. Because people shouldn't be able to post stupid tripe like this without at least potential repercussions.

My favorite part is how he blames ganking for inflation.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#540 - 2014-06-19 17:13:57 UTC
Last night I decided to make a run in a freighter to refill my catalyst supplies.

I decided to forgo my usual check in my intel channels to see where the camps were thing, and see exactly how hard it actual is to move freight like a scrub.

After checking the map for kills in the last hour, and investigating the blobs by crosschecking on zkillboard and battleclinic, I decided to avoid 2 systems in my route. This small action increased my route from 12 jumps to a whole whopping 16 jumps. Undeterred, I logged on another alt and hopped in his trusty Hyena. We undocked and warped to the first gate. Both toons were in the same corp, but jus to be safe I went ahead and popped a duel with them just to make sure what I was about to do would be good. I jumped my alt through, and looked at both local and my surroundings. Confident that there was no danger, I jumped the freighter in, and using the Hyena to web him was able to get into warp rather quickly. I waited out the timer on the Hyena which was about how long it took the freighter to reach the gate. I repeated this process for about 8 jumps without any issues, never once leaving my keyboard (blasphemy for a freighter pilot!). On jump 9 I apparently had stumbled upon a group of people reshipping after a gank. Not wanting to burn this alt, and also still wanting to retain the whole "Highsec" experience, I left the freighter on the previous gate (after making sure there wasn't anyone also there who could be scanning, etc) and used the hyena to scout the next gate. Unable to find the people in local in space, I quickly verified that they were indeed docked. I jumped into the next system and found it to be empty. Ran back and regrouped with my freighter and webbed him through with no issues (after refreshing the duel once again). 15 minutes later I arrived at my destination safe and sound. After unloading my cargo, I loaded the freighter back up with my stash of spoils , followed my previous steps, and made it back to my original trade hub berth with no issues.

This was entirely too much work. I feel like I should be entitled to something.

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?