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Has suicide ganking become a problem? Empty freighters being ganked.

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BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#541 - 2014-06-19 17:26:41 UTC
I'd love to see the number of people who have multiple high sec kills versus the number that stare at rocks all day. While I know there are far more miners than gankers, I can't imagine removing suicide ganking actually bringing more players to the game. It would however drive the hundreds of New Order players and uncountable number of players in other high sec corporations such as MiniLuv from the game. Another significant number of players that do not take part in ganking would see it as writing on the wall for their professions and also leave.

At the rate that idiotic posts are cropping up in this thread I'm going to have to stop code enforcement completely for a period of time so that I may support Feyd's HTFU initiative. I think the queue is probably around 10 from this thread alone.

Founder of Violet Squadron, a small gang NPSI community! Mail me for more information.

BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie's Space Mediation Service!

malcovas Henderson
THoF
#542 - 2014-06-19 17:27:39 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Morihei Akachi wrote:
baltec1 wrote:

summoning concord to protect you is abusing the game mechanics, if you want a fleet to protect you then you must get the players to do it, not an invincible npc fleet.

This makes no sense to me. The cost of summoning Concord is the same as the cost of ganking the freighter to begin with: a ship and some security status. How is the one an exploit and the other not?


You can summon concord with an ibis, the ship is free so no, it is not the same cost.

The reason why it is an exploit is because concord make it impossible to kill the target when they are on grid and there is no way of getting rid of them. Concord is there to punish, not protect. Protection is the job of players, not god mode NPCs.


I beg to differ. If I summon Concord in an Ibis, by shooting the freighter I am protecting. Concord is actually coming to punish me. It's a jolly good bonus the freighter gains in protection though.
Solecist Project
#543 - 2014-06-19 17:27:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Solecist Project
It's kind of hilarious that there are so many whining about
how CCP could make more money by changing the game...

While a ganker, me, creates stupid leggings and nylons,
to show CCP how to make more money
by giving the players what they want.

And they definitely want this. They want this far more than a change in the game
which will gve CCP NOTHING but more whiners, but not more money into the pocket.

I am glad I'm a ganker, because unlike these other people I actually try to help CCP,
instead of whining about things I have no understanding of anyway.
I do something.

You all need to be burned alive in your pods...

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#544 - 2014-06-19 17:32:51 UTC
malcovas Henderson wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Morihei Akachi wrote:
baltec1 wrote:

summoning concord to protect you is abusing the game mechanics, if you want a fleet to protect you then you must get the players to do it, not an invincible npc fleet.

This makes no sense to me. The cost of summoning Concord is the same as the cost of ganking the freighter to begin with: a ship and some security status. How is the one an exploit and the other not?


You can summon concord with an ibis, the ship is free so no, it is not the same cost.

The reason why it is an exploit is because concord make it impossible to kill the target when they are on grid and there is no way of getting rid of them. Concord is there to punish, not protect. Protection is the job of players, not god mode NPCs.


I beg to differ. If I summon Concord in an Ibis, by shooting the freighter I am protecting. Concord is actually coming to punish me. It's a jolly good bonus the freighter gains in protection though.


People used the same kind of argument to try and keep boomerang, it didn't wash. You are using concord as invincible mercs to protect your assets. That's the job of players, not invincible NPCs.
Titania Hrothgar
Nemesis Retribution
#545 - 2014-06-19 17:38:23 UTC
Rhes wrote:
Noragli wrote:
When you let one group of players mercilessly grief another set, you lose players.

Blowing up a player's spaceship in a game about blowing up spaceships isn't griefing.


This.

Saying that the people attacked were helpless victims who never saw it coming is also wrong. Everyone in Eve knows it's coming. Hell, even high sec corps will destroy other miners who encroach on what they call "Their asteroids." Yet there's no mention of this. Yes, even high sec carebears will attack other miners to control a territory.

Every time you bring out your miner, you are at risk of being blown up by someone. Every time you undock your ship, you're at risk of being attacked.

If you want to minimize it and don't want to join a corp, align your ships to a star base, mine in different locations (never in the same spot for very long), and always keep an eye on local channel and watch for enemy ships. If you see red, hit your warp button.

I had someone bump me yesterday, but I was fast enough on my warp button that I was able to re-align and warp out of there. I lost about 700,000 ISK in ore because something had spooked me earlier so i had already emptied all of my cans.

If you're in a miner, you have to be skittish. Nothing is too small a reason to high tail it out of there taking all the ore you can carry with you.

Pirates attack people and steal your ore. It's what pirates do! This is a game that has pirates. Deal with it.

All the world's a stage and all the men and women are the players.

BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#546 - 2014-06-19 17:39:42 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
You all need to be burned alive in your pods...

This brings up an important question. At what temperature does pod goo vaporize? Also, does that temperature increase when enclosed in a pod due to pressure, or after cooking does it solidify?

Founder of Violet Squadron, a small gang NPSI community! Mail me for more information.

BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie's Space Mediation Service!

malcovas Henderson
THoF
#547 - 2014-06-19 17:44:03 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
malcovas Henderson wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Morihei Akachi wrote:
baltec1 wrote:

summoning concord to protect you is abusing the game mechanics, if you want a fleet to protect you then you must get the players to do it, not an invincible npc fleet.

This makes no sense to me. The cost of summoning Concord is the same as the cost of ganking the freighter to begin with: a ship and some security status. How is the one an exploit and the other not?


You can summon concord with an ibis, the ship is free so no, it is not the same cost.

The reason why it is an exploit is because concord make it impossible to kill the target when they are on grid and there is no way of getting rid of them. Concord is there to punish, not protect. Protection is the job of players, not god mode NPCs.


I beg to differ. If I summon Concord in an Ibis, by shooting the freighter I am protecting. Concord is actually coming to punish me. It's a jolly good bonus the freighter gains in protection though.


People used the same kind of argument to try and keep boomerang, it didn't wash. You are using concord as invincible mercs to protect your assets. That's the job of players, not invincible NPCs.


Ok. So I see your scout on grid, I decide to pre-emptive strike him by "Ganking" him. Concord appear. So what's the difference? Concord still arrive to punish me, AND I get a massive protection boost. Or is what you are saying, only gankers are allowed to gank?
Solecist Project
#548 - 2014-06-19 17:45:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Solecist Project
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:
You all need to be burned alive in your pods...

This brings up an important question. At what temperature does pod goo vaporize? Also, does that temperature increase when enclosed in a pod due to pressure, or after cooking does it solidify?

Solidify. I think I considered it a name once, but went for Solidity.
She was horrible and I had to biomass her because of too much negative perception.
That coming from me must seem odd. Names simply do matter too.


I will answer your question with a response that spans across all possible variations
of possible responses.

1.) A few thousand degree is a temperature high enough that it's completely irrelevant if Fahrenheit or Celsius.

... or ...

2.) 8x Large YF-12. Who cares about temperature anyway...

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#549 - 2014-06-19 17:47:31 UTC
malcovas Henderson wrote:

Ok. So I see your scout on grid, I decide to pre-emptive strike him by "Ganking" him. Concord appear. So what's the difference? Concord still arrive to punish me, AND I get a massive protection boost. Or is what you are saying, only gankers are allowed to gank?


No, you shot at a target to kill it.

Shooting your own freighter with an ibis only has the goal of spawning concord for protection. Thats the difference.
Spectral Tiger
#550 - 2014-06-19 17:51:05 UTC
malcovas Henderson wrote:
[Ok. So I see your scout on grid, I decide to pre-emptive strike him by "Ganking" him. Concord appear. So what's the difference? Concord still arrive to punish me, AND I get a massive protection boost. Or is what you are saying, only gankers are allowed to gank?



Gankers gank what they consider soft targets, they wouldn't do it otherwise. Just occasionally they get it wrong.

Nothing wrong with you ganking the ganker if that's what you want to do, regardless of CONCORD.

If there is an issue that could break the rules then it needs looking at.
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
#551 - 2014-06-19 17:52:16 UTC
malcovas Henderson wrote:
Ok. So I see your scout on grid, I decide to pre-emptive strike him by "Ganking" him. Concord appear. So what's the difference? Concord still arrive to punish me, AND I get a massive protection boost. Or is what you are saying, only gankers are allowed to gank?

the reason we have gms is to apply some common sense to rulings. i suggest you don't screw around with ships that don't have any chance of scoring a kill.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#552 - 2014-06-19 17:55:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Spectral Tiger wrote:
Gankers gank what they consider soft targets.
Somewhat correct if you only go with the profit motive, which raises the point that by not being a soft target, you tend not to be the victim of ganking.

Heinrich Erquilenne wrote:
Mag's wrote:
So you were wrong.
Glad we sorted that out.


Roll

Obviously you don't read and there's no point trying to make you understand that you can make ganking attempts not worth it, and have a fully AFK mining experience with only small adjustments. Nevermind.
TBH some gankers don't actually care if they profit from the gank, an AFK max tank Procurer or Skiff isn't going to deter those who see your tears in local as more valuable than the isk they make.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

malcovas Henderson
THoF
#553 - 2014-06-19 18:00:19 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
malcovas Henderson wrote:

Ok. So I see your scout on grid, I decide to pre-emptive strike him by "Ganking" him. Concord appear. So what's the difference? Concord still arrive to punish me, AND I get a massive protection boost. Or is what you are saying, only gankers are allowed to gank?


No, you shot at a target to kill it.

Shooting your own freighter with an ibis only has the goal of spawning concord for protection. Thats the difference.


That's the point. I can shoot any target on grid. Concord would still arrive, to punish ME. Not to protect the freighter as you seem to think. The protection is a bonus to my actions.

Look at it another way. A random Freighter jumps into system, Dominixes start to bump him. I decide to engage the Dominix. Now are Concord coming to protect the Freighter? or are they coming to protect the Dominix?
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#554 - 2014-06-19 18:03:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
malcovas Henderson wrote:
Look at it another way. A random Freighter jumps into system, Dominixes start to bump him. I decide to engage the Dominix. Now are Concord coming to protect the Freighter? or are they coming to protect the Dominix?
They're there to laugh at people who bump in a Dominix, that's like trying to compete in the 24hr Le Mans with a garbage truck, there's much better tools for the job.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Solecist Project
#555 - 2014-06-19 18:05:51 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
malcovas Henderson wrote:
Look at it another way. A random Freighter jumps into system, Dominixes start to bump him. I decide to engage the Dominix. Now are Concord coming to protect the Freighter? or are they coming to protect the Dominix?
They're there to laugh at people who bump in a Dominix, that's like trying to compete in the 24hr Le Mans in a garbage truck, there's much better tools for the job.

Since when am I not allowed to spawn CONCORD where I want?

I kept doing that FOR YEARS, they can't tell me what to do!

The next freighter I see will get his ass kicked by my noobship.........

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
#556 - 2014-06-19 18:11:31 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
Since when am I not allowed to spawn CONCORD where I want?

apparently it can't be spawned to try and protect your own ship. only to move it away from the site of a previous gank. i haven't seen a ruling myself but i've seen people who'd know assert it and i believe them.

malcovas Henderson wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
malcovas Henderson wrote:

Ok. So I see your scout on grid, I decide to pre-emptive strike him by "Ganking" him. Concord appear. So what's the difference? Concord still arrive to punish me, AND I get a massive protection boost. Or is what you are saying, only gankers are allowed to gank?


No, you shot at a target to kill it.

Shooting your own freighter with an ibis only has the goal of spawning concord for protection. Thats the difference.


That's the point. I can shoot any target on grid. Concord would still arrive, to punish ME. Not to protect the freighter as you seem to think. The protection is a bonus to my actions.

Look at it another way. A random Freighter jumps into system, Dominixes start to bump him. I decide to engage the Dominix. Now are Concord coming to protect the Freighter? or are they coming to protect the Dominix?



Benny Ohu wrote:

the reason we have gms is to apply some common sense to rulings. i suggest you don't screw around with ships that don't have any chance of scoring a kill.

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#557 - 2014-06-19 18:12:22 UTC
malcovas Henderson wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
malcovas Henderson wrote:

Ok. So I see your scout on grid, I decide to pre-emptive strike him by "Ganking" him. Concord appear. So what's the difference? Concord still arrive to punish me, AND I get a massive protection boost. Or is what you are saying, only gankers are allowed to gank?


No, you shot at a target to kill it.

Shooting your own freighter with an ibis only has the goal of spawning concord for protection. Thats the difference.


That's the point. I can shoot any target on grid. Concord would still arrive, to punish ME. Not to protect the freighter as you seem to think. The protection is a bonus to my actions.

Look at it another way. A random Freighter jumps into system, Dominixes start to bump him. I decide to engage the Dominix. Now are Concord coming to protect the Freighter? or are they coming to protect the Dominix?


It doesnt matter how you try to word this. You are spawning concord with the intent to protect your assets with an invincible NPC fleet. The job of protecting your assets is yours and the players in your fleet, not concord.
Solecist Project
#558 - 2014-06-19 18:16:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Solecist Project
Well I remember this ruling to be differently and that
people are definitely allowed to spawn CONCORD whereever they want.

Trusting a ganker when he says it's not allowed makes no sense too.
No offense intended towards anyone.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
#559 - 2014-06-19 18:19:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Benny Ohu
Solecist Project wrote:
Well I remember this ruling to be differently and that
people are definitely allowed to spawn CONCORD whereever they want.

Trusting a ganker when he says it's not allowed makes no sense too.
No offense intended towards anyone.

tell you what, i'll make a petition.

e: This was the question I asked

"Are players allowed to use disposable ships to spawn CONCORD close to where they are, with the intention of having CONCORD immediately attack any aggressors and therefore defend their ship for them?"
Tricia Killnu
The Horn
#560 - 2014-06-19 18:53:59 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:
Well I remember this ruling to be differently and that
people are definitely allowed to spawn CONCORD whereever they want.

Trusting a ganker when he says it's not allowed makes no sense too.
No offense intended towards anyone.

tell you what, i'll make a petition.

e: This was the question I asked

"Are players allowed to use disposable ships to spawn CONCORD close to where they are, with the intention of having CONCORD immediately attack any aggressors and therefore defend their ship for them?"


Last I herd (And I could be wrong as this forums isnt always correct) Disposable alts for this function is a no no. However spawning concord in itself is not wrong.

Again I could be completely wrong

but it doesnt matter because this entire thread should be closed at this point. Suicide ganking will happen.

And when it starts hurting CCPs bottom line is when they will do something to discourage it. For right now its not a violation of any policies because its a function of eve and totally within a players rights to do so.

Sometimes you just have to realized you undocked and you suck. . .