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Has suicide ganking become a problem? Empty freighters being ganked.

First post First post First post
Author
Ukucia
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#481 - 2014-06-18 21:35:34 UTC
Iain Cariaba wrote:
@CCP: Isn't 24 pages well past time to lock a thread that's already been rehashed over and over again a hundred time thus month alone?

Better to keep it in one thread than for many copies to be created.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#482 - 2014-06-18 21:39:26 UTC
Ukucia wrote:
Iain Cariaba wrote:
@CCP: Isn't 24 pages well past time to lock a thread that's already been rehashed over and over again a hundred time thus month alone?

Better to keep it in one thread than for many copies to be created.

This is what we call a "lighting rod" thread.
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#483 - 2014-06-18 23:11:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Webvan
Easy solution, just remove high/low and don't let players hide in NPC stations any longer, no more hiding behind the system for anyone, no CONCORD nor any such system as such. Let alliances bloody well police their own territory. Let alliances determine auto-penalties for attacking other alliance members. Break a lot of the existing gates, more choke points, more defensible system chains for alliances. Turn the map into basically a lot of islands.

I'm in it for the money

Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12

DJentropy Ovaert
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#484 - 2014-06-19 00:10:44 UTC
Winchester Steele wrote:


At the end of the day though, and the thing that differentiates a real EvE player from a whinebear, had they caught me and ganked me I would only have one response: GF!


Bless you.

EVE needs more like you.
Winchester Steele
#485 - 2014-06-19 00:14:45 UTC
Molang wrote:
I hardly ever post on the forums but I decided to on this one.

There is one great reason to blow up empty freighters.

As a manufacturer I saw my profits almost double during events like burn Jita. When ships blow up empty or not the manufactures stand to profit. End of story, welcome to EVE.

If you feel that ganking a freighter with a full cargo is justified because of the monetary gain then you also have to justify ganking freighters for the temporary profit margin increase in the region.

Feel free to ridicule me.



Ridicule you? Why? You sound like a right proper Eve industrialist to me.

...

DJentropy Ovaert
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#486 - 2014-06-19 00:17:53 UTC
Helia Tranquilis wrote:
Todays meta in flying freighters in highsec

1. Even empty freighter must have maximum tank, tech 3 links and several logi alts
2. Webber alt and scout or you die, spares when they get trashe[re]d
3. ISBox fleet of catalysts on standby to counter gank the bumping machariel(s)
4. Another fleet of Falcons to break through odd 100 magnetometric strength of ECCM'd gallente face-huggers

Or have friends that are willing to break their ratting and come escort your boat during your market adventures. We can all see that one happening.


Besides, last expansion stated: "The empires are losing control"

The art involved in ganking has made concord largely irrelevant. Sooner you accept that, the sooner you realize the only accepted form of making isk is in FW.


Oh, come now. You're being really dramatic.

During the Aufay event - every single freighter in question could have been saved by simply not jumping into Aufay.

One player scouting ahead. That's all it would take. Scout jumps in first, sees about 40 characters that are -5 to -10 security status in local, tells buddy "HEY. THIS IS NOT LOOKING GOOD. DOCK."

Heck, even totally alone - a fast check of the in game map and viewing by ship kills would tell anyone with 1/10th of a brain that Aufay is not the place to be today.

CCP gives the player all the tools they need to stay alive, but people still cry when they refuse to use them. Freighter players seem to want the same thing high-sec AFK miners want - to play eve while AFK in a valuable ship and still generate ISK. For that reason, the CODE is here to save them from themselves and make the galaxy a better place for everyone.
Winter Archipelago
Autumn Industrial Enterprises
#487 - 2014-06-19 00:37:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Winter Archipelago
I honestly can't believe this thread is still going on... As others have said, though, better to keep the mess in one place than let it spread.

Here's a 30-day anti-ganker alt skilled primarily for ECM (total time without implants is 29 days, 22 hours, 36 minutes, 41 seconds). It primarily uses a Griffin, but can do a fly-ahead to provide a warp-to using a Condor, as well.

Starting Race: Caldari, any bloodline.
REMAP TO 27 Per, 21 Wil
Train Caldari Frigate to V
REMAP TO 27 Int, 21 Mem
Train Electronic Warfare to V
Train CPU Management to V
Train Signal Dispersion to IV
Train Projected Electronic Counter Measures to III
Train Afterburner to III
Train High Speed Maneuvering to III
Train Acceleration Control to II
Train Propulsion Jamming to I

Total SP: 1,670,342 SP

Ship: Griffin
High Slots: Empty
Mid Slots: 5x Compulsive Ion Field ECM I
OR 4x Compulsive Ion Field ECM 1, 1x Experimental 1mn Afterburner I
Low Slots: Empty
Rigs: 2x Small Particle Dispersion Augmentor I

[b]Total Cost:
<1.5m ISK

Have a perch off-grid of the gate and either D-Scan or warp in when you see people in local go GCC. Warp to 0 on the gate and start jamming. If the ganker group is fairly well-coordinated and has bumped their target well-away from the gate, then you need to step up your own game and skill into a Falcon and keep a closer eye on them. When the gankers skill up their game, you have to skill up yours, as well.

Yes, it's a weak ship. If any of the gankers go after you, you're going to lose your (cheap) ship. HOWEVER, if they actually went after you, that's even less DPS that's going on their intended target. Congrats, because that would be a very, very good thing!

Even if they went after you and manage to catch your pod, the grand total loss for this is under 2m ISK, and you've probably saved their target because of it.

Now, let's say that the gates and groups you are trying to anti-gank are (or become) bumpers. This is where the High Speed Maneuvering, Acceleration Control, and Propulsion Jamming come into play. In a case like this, you switch over to a Condor, fit a MWD, a trio of webs, and a trio of Small Auxiliary Thruster I's on it, and burn ahead of the soon-to-be gankee in the direction they're being bumped (better yet, if you frequent the system, have a dozen or so bookmarks around the gates that you can warp to to save the time of flying there manually each time).

Get them to fleet with you, and duel you if you can manage it, then warp to you when you're >150km away. As soon as they get to you, they should align out and, after they get a small bit of speed up, hit them with a trio of webs, and watch in glee as they get away. If you can actually convince them to duel you, great! otherwise, the Condor, fit thusly, is under 1.25m ISK.

Of course, the fly-ahead requires that the intended gankee not be AFK. If they're AFK, well, they deserve to lose their ship.

Anyway, since both of these ships are cheap and easy to kill, what's stopping the gankers from suiciding on you right before they start their gank run?

CONCORD. If you're on-grid with their target, they're going to have to lure CONCORD away before they can do much. And guess what? It's going to take about the same amount of time to get CONCORD out of the picture as it will for you to reship and get back on-grid (so long as you have a stack of anti-gank ships in the system with you, and your clone, in case you got podded). If would actually be better for the gankers to just ignore you and bring enough DPS to out-DPS your ECM, which will lower their gain and make it more of a pain to do, especially if they're Taloses.

There you all go: a cheap, 30-day anti-ganker alt. Who knows? If you do well, the people you saved might be willing to toss you a handful of change as thanks. After all, you just saved their billion-plus ISK ship, not counting the cargo and collateral!

...then again, all of this would require initiative and effort, so hey, what are the chances that the would-be gankees actually bother trying it?
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#488 - 2014-06-19 00:38:30 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Xaldafax Caerleon wrote:
From where I stand bumping is an aggressive action and should have some effect in line with that.

If, in real life I walked up to you and kept pushing you I wouldn't get away with it. So why is that true here? Let it happen and just build a solution that lets you get your butt beat for it.

Same thing for ganking... who cares if it happens... but in real life if a terrorist on the FBI wanted list was just sitting at a starbucks watching and deciding who he might jump, sooner or later the police would get him BEFORE he killed someone. Something like this needs to be built around ganking... it is simple... live and die by the sword.


If you'd like to argue for hyper realism, can we have the cops show up twenty minutes after a crime is reported like in real life, instead of with omnipotent space police magic?




Sure.

Can we have massive ships take a very very long time to destroy? Presently it's like a bunch of guys on motorcycles with Uzis being able to blow up a garbage truck in 2 seconds.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Winter Archipelago
Autumn Industrial Enterprises
#489 - 2014-06-19 00:40:54 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Sure.

Can we have massive ships take a very very long time to destroy? Presently it's like a bunch of guys on motorcycles with Uzis being able to blow up a garbage truck in 2 seconds.

I would equate blasters more with flamethrowers. An Uzi is more like an Autocannon.
DJentropy Ovaert
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#490 - 2014-06-19 01:09:50 UTC
Winter Archipelago wrote:
I ...
Total SP: 1,670,342 SP

Ship: Griffin
High Slots: Empty
Mid Slots: 5x Compulsive Ion Field ECM I
OR 4x Compulsive Ion Field ECM 1, 1x Experimental 1mn Afterburner I
Low Slots: Empty
Rigs: 2x Small Particle Dispersion Augmentor I

....



Until this happens.

tl;dr version -

http://i.imgur.com/MLfBNqN.jpg
malcovas Henderson
THoF
#491 - 2014-06-19 01:26:00 UTC
Winter Archipelago wrote:
I honestly can't believe this thread is still going on... As others have said, though, better to keep the mess in one place than let it spread.

Here's a 30-day anti-ganker alt skilled primarily for ECM (total time without implants is 29 days, 22 hours, 36 minutes, 41 seconds). It primarily uses a Griffin, but can do a fly-ahead to provide a warp-to using a Condor, as well.

Starting Race: Caldari, any bloodline.
REMAP TO 27 Per, 21 Wil
Train Caldari Frigate to V
REMAP TO 27 Int, 21 Mem
Train Electronic Warfare to V
Train CPU Management to V
Train Signal Dispersion to IV
Train Projected Electronic Counter Measures to III
Train Afterburner to III
Train High Speed Maneuvering to III
Train Acceleration Control to II
Train Propulsion Jamming to I

Total SP: 1,670,342 SP

Ship: Griffin
High Slots: Empty
Mid Slots: 5x Compulsive Ion Field ECM I
OR 4x Compulsive Ion Field ECM 1, 1x Experimental 1mn Afterburner I
Low Slots: Empty
Rigs: 2x Small Particle Dispersion Augmentor I

[b]Total Cost:
<1.5m ISK

Have a perch off-grid of the gate and either D-Scan or warp in when you see people in local go GCC. Warp to 0 on the gate and start jamming. If the ganker group is fairly well-coordinated and has bumped their target well-away from the gate, then you need to step up your own game and skill into a Falcon and keep a closer eye on them. When the gankers skill up their game, you have to skill up yours, as well.

Yes, it's a weak ship. If any of the gankers go after you, you're going to lose your (cheap) ship. HOWEVER, if they actually went after you, that's even less DPS that's going on their intended target. Congrats, because that would be a very, very good thing!

Even if they went after you and manage to catch your pod, the grand total loss for this is under 2m ISK, and you've probably saved their target because of it.

Now, let's say that the gates and groups you are trying to anti-gank are (or become) bumpers. This is where the High Speed Maneuvering, Acceleration Control, and Propulsion Jamming come into play. In a case like this, you switch over to a Condor, fit a MWD, a trio of webs, and a trio of Small Auxiliary Thruster I's on it, and burn ahead of the soon-to-be gankee in the direction they're being bumped (better yet, if you frequent the system, have a dozen or so bookmarks around the gates that you can warp to to save the time of flying there manually each time).

Get them to fleet with you, and duel you if you can manage it, then warp to you when you're >150km away. As soon as they get to you, they should align out and, after they get a small bit of speed up, hit them with a trio of webs, and watch in glee as they get away. If you can actually convince them to duel you, great! otherwise, the Condor, fit thusly, is under 1.25m ISK.

Of course, the fly-ahead requires that the intended gankee not be AFK. If they're AFK, well, they deserve to lose their ship.

Anyway, since both of these ships are cheap and easy to kill, what's stopping the gankers from suiciding on you right before they start their gank run?

CONCORD. If you're on-grid with their target, they're going to have to lure CONCORD away before they can do much. And guess what? It's going to take about the same amount of time to get CONCORD out of the picture as it will for you to reship and get back on-grid (so long as you have a stack of anti-gank ships in the system with you, and your clone, in case you got podded). If would actually be better for the gankers to just ignore you and bring enough DPS to out-DPS your ECM, which will lower their gain and make it more of a pain to do, especially if they're Taloses.

There you all go: a cheap, 30-day anti-ganker alt. Who knows? If you do well, the people you saved might be willing to toss you a handful of change as thanks. After all, you just saved their billion-plus ISK ship, not counting the cargo and collateral!

...then again, all of this would require initiative and effort, so hey, what are the chances that the would-be gankees actually bother trying it?



All that effort, and it would be a total waste. Do you honestly think Gankers are that stupid to leave a ECM ship hanging around their gank? You would be dead before you could lock a target.

Winter Archipelago
Autumn Industrial Enterprises
#492 - 2014-06-19 01:31:20 UTC
DJentropy Ovaert wrote:



Until this happens.

tl;dr version -

http://i.imgur.com/MLfBNqN.jpg

Of course, but everything has counter measures. Actually going from doing nothing at all to doing a very small thing would be a huge leap forward.

Then again, they would probably start saying that ECM was too weak before they tried to adapt.

...I would probably die of laughter at that point.
DJentropy Ovaert
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#493 - 2014-06-19 01:34:48 UTC
malcovas Henderson wrote:


All that effort, and it would be a total waste. Do you honestly think Gankers are that stupid to leave a ECM ship hanging around their gank? You would be dead before you could lock a target.




Ehh, even if they are smart and keep ECM ships @ proper range, it really does not matter. They get two choices:

1) Try to ECM the bigger stuff (Talos, Brutix, etc) which have a crap ton of midslots mostly loaded with ECCM. Even with great jamming skills, the chance of actually landing a jam is pretty low - and due to the ECM cycle time, they get one shot to actually jam anything during the entire battle.

2) Try to ECM the smaller stuff (Catalysts) which are also ECCM fit - but due to ship type and mid-slot limits have a higher chance of landing a jam. We always take the time to calculate the EHP of the target and how much ECM we expect, and we bring enough ships to just power right through a few being jammed out.

Anti-Gankers have been trying to stop us or at least slow us down with ECM for months now, with no success. It's almost like they just want it to work SO badly that no amount of failure will change their minds.

ECM is great for disrupting a solo ganker or small gank ganks, but to think these tactics will work against a large well organized fleet is pure madness. They will need to bring more then a couple throwaway griffins or covops cloak and start to think outside the box, which will likely never happen :P
DJentropy Ovaert
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#494 - 2014-06-19 01:36:12 UTC
Winter Archipelago wrote:
DJentropy Ovaert wrote:



Until this happens.

tl;dr version -

http://i.imgur.com/MLfBNqN.jpg

Of course, but everything has counter measures. Actually going from doing nothing at all to doing a very small thing would be a huge leap forward.

Then again, they would probably start saying that ECM was too weak before they tried to adapt.

...I would probably die of laughter at that point.


I really wish I could post chat logs here.

Let's just say I have already died from that :P
Winter Archipelago
Autumn Industrial Enterprises
#495 - 2014-06-19 01:47:25 UTC
DJentropy Ovaert wrote:
Winter Archipelago wrote:
DJentropy Ovaert wrote:



Until this happens.

tl;dr version -

http://i.imgur.com/MLfBNqN.jpg

Of course, but everything has counter measures. Actually going from doing nothing at all to doing a very small thing would be a huge leap forward.

Then again, they would probably start saying that ECM was too weak before they tried to adapt.

...I would probably die of laughter at that point.


I really wish I could post chat logs here.

Let's just say I have already died from that :P

You've got to be kidding me.
John E Normus
New Order Logistics
CODE.
#496 - 2014-06-19 01:49:11 UTC
Here's my 20 second skill strategy that will make you as effective as the try-hards in the ECM boats.

1.) Login
2.) Mash the empty character slot on your mains account with your cursor.
3.) Pick any race, ethnic group, sex.
4.) Keep mashing the next button until you get to the name part.
5.) Name your new character "I KILL 4ISK" or "C0D3 K1LLaH" etc, then mash next.
6.) Undock, redock and get in your free rookie ship.
7.) Find Gankers and shoot them with your free gun from as far away as possible.
7a.) Use the gun not the mining lazor. You know what? Just offline the lazor so you don't get confused.
8.) Profit.

yw

Between Ignorance and Wisdom

Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#497 - 2014-06-19 01:53:56 UTC
So it seems like the correct answer to getting freighters through Aufay right now, aside from paying the troll toll, is don't try?
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#498 - 2014-06-19 03:26:06 UTC
or you can use dscan and 0 skill noobs to shoot the target and call in CONCORD just a bit early.

Surprise!

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~

Dally Lama
Doomheim
#499 - 2014-06-19 03:58:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Dally Lama
If only there was a way to get nearly 1,000,000 EHP with over 150k m3 cargo...
If only there was a way to get nearly 500,000 EHP with over 500k m3 cargo...

http://i.imgur.com/oJTDxN5.png

.
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#500 - 2014-06-19 05:24:39 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
So it seems like the correct answer to getting freighters through Aufay right now, aside from paying the troll toll, is don't try?


Its not a chokepoint. Autopilot happily reroutes around it, even if set to not go into lowsec.