These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

High Sec Income vs Null Sec Income - the reality

First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#101 - 2013-10-16 13:12:59 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:

As it is now, I can choose 120-150 mil an hour with a machariel in null sec where I have to react to threats, or 180 mil (120 mil isk plus LP selling at 1.1k isk per CONCORD LP) an hour in high sec doing HQ sites in a shiney incursion fleet. That's heavily broken.

completely agree: remove incursions from high-sec and be done with all whine.



I've heard that only 2 or 3 Low Sec Incursions have ever been completed, and absolutely not one ever in Null.

Yeah....that sure sounds appealing.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
TharOkha
0asis Group
#102 - 2013-10-16 13:14:05 UTC
Rumtin wrote:
Abdiel Kavash wrote:
Rumtin wrote:
Agreed, the isk figures are higher so in theory you're making a lot more per tick, but the fact you have yourself and 30+ other ships to contend with means you don't always get to run the sites.

If a solo ninja can find an empty system for themselves, why can't a sov holder with maps/bridges/intel?



Unlike some random nuet that wonders system to system, corps part of an alliance that agree to remain in areas they control are limited. As a member of LAWN living in Delve, I can't just go ratting in Dekklin whenever I feel like it, there's consequences. I have to remain in LAWN operating areas. As a member of the CFC, I thought you would have known this.


And that is OUR problem, somehow?

So you are complaining that you earn (in null) same or less than averange HS L4 runner. When some of us (freelance "ninjas") tells you how to earn in null you complaining about your corp/alliance policy.

its just stupid that majority of you nullbears calls for anything-related-to-hisec nerfs just because of yourcorp-made rules,.

CODE. Venture hunt contest in a nutshell
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#103 - 2013-10-16 13:14:49 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:

Because the people of high sec can't stand the thought of any risk at all.


That's such a broad generalization I'm almost embarrassed for you for typing it.


You can be embarrassed by the truth all you like. I remember the fanfest presentation where CCP told us that most high sec characters will never leave high sec. Sure, plenty of those are alts, but there is a definite core group of high sec players who will accept NO risk whatsoever, and we all know that.

That's why null sec, low sec and wormholes have such low population density compared to high sec.


Oh, I understand completely. After 4 years, I really really do understand. Honestly.

But that still does not excuse propagandistic lying platitudes like "the people of high sec can't stand the thought of any risk at all."


So I['m lying about the fact that high sec people (you know video gamers who have to hide behind magical space police) don't accept risk.

How about you disprove what I said? Show me how the average high sec only player is full of risk taking and e-bravery.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#104 - 2013-10-16 13:15:07 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:

Because the people of high sec can't stand the thought of any risk at all.


That's such a broad generalization I'm almost embarrassed for you for typing it.


You can be embarrassed by the truth all you like. I remember the fanfest presentation where CCP told us that most high sec characters will never leave high sec. Sure, plenty of those are alts, but there is a definite core group of high sec players who will accept NO risk whatsoever, and we all know that.

That's why null sec, low sec and wormholes have such low population density compared to high sec.

"people of high-sec" != "definite group of high-sec players"

stop beating yourself

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#105 - 2013-10-16 13:15:26 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:


20 hours / 7 billion is a very healthy 350 million isk per hour. That doesn't include bounties.


Nor does it include reality. I'm a professions null PVe player, and unlike you have actual experience with null sec living (being in alliances, going to CTAs, dealing with hostiles in my space ect). It seems a certain way to you because you don't have to deal with other folks realities. It's bad thinking to sample something then draw huge sweeping conclusions from a minor sample.

The conclusions you draw are wrong, and the funny thing is that your own actions demonstrate it, yet your prejudices keep you from acknowledging it (you know, like that time you said null was so safe so you SOLO raided an alliance's space and killed ships....ie something you can't do in a place that's so safe...lol).



It is reality. I just did it. Making it "realistic" to expect.

As for the last comment, it was possible to do that and be successful because it was SO SAFE. The Nightmare I killed I killed while there were around 20 in local. He undocked and warped off while I was having a conversation in local about the other ship I'd just killed in the same system. He obviously didn't even check local. That's how safe it was. I check local in high sec ffs. i think most people probably do.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#106 - 2013-10-16 13:17:39 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:

Because the people of high sec can't stand the thought of any risk at all.


That's such a broad generalization I'm almost embarrassed for you for typing it.


You can be embarrassed by the truth all you like. I remember the fanfest presentation where CCP told us that most high sec characters will never leave high sec. Sure, plenty of those are alts, but there is a definite core group of high sec players who will accept NO risk whatsoever, and we all know that.

That's why null sec, low sec and wormholes have such low population density compared to high sec.

"people of high-sec" != "definite group of high-sec players"

stop beating yourself


Semantics. When people say "high sec players" they tend to mean those high sec only players I'm talking about. Happens all the time.

Is English not your 1st language?
Skeln Thargensen
Doomheim
#107 - 2013-10-16 13:21:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Skeln Thargensen
Jenn aSide wrote:
Skeln Thargensen wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Skeln Thargensen wrote:
I really don't see the need to move L4s. the income you get from them is pretty dire compared to what you can make ratting or exploring in low. i mean unless you want to trash your faction standings for those tags or run a dedicated alt.

runnning them ad nauseam is also about the dullest PvE activity in eve, bar mining.


My assertion has been for some time that fixing wardecs is the first step to actually balancing highsec. Once wardecs have teeth (such as generating killrights on people who leave corps during a dec) then we can see what the realities are in highsec.

Because the primary intended method of introducing risk to highsec is broken(nonexistent would perhaps be a better word), it's impossible to balance it from the perspective that currently exists.


a wardec is against a corporation not an individual. if you want to shoot people with impunity go to null, that's what it's there for.


That zooming sound you just heard was the point flying past your head at super sonic speeds lol.

What Kaarous (and others, like Malcanis) is saying is that High Sec income is unbalanced not on a per individual level, but as a whole, and mainly because the risks don't match the rewards.

Before the announcement of the SOE ships, I spent a lot of time in Osmon farming the hell out of the missions for the Sisters LP. I was making null sec level income in high sec . The only reason I would log on my null alts was because I was bored of Incursions and Sisters (and lately Thukker) missions. Allof this without even having to glance at local chat. That's an example of not great balance.




i only addressed his misconception there as it is both a widespread and appalling mantra amongst Eve-O forum warriors. the point is that people complaining about people dropping corp, logging out or whatever way to 'dodge wars' haven't really grasped what wars are for, which is attacking a corporate entity. if people drop corp then you're achieving your aim, if you realised what it was in the first place.

and nothing will make me run missions in low, it's just bringing a knife to a gunfight. why would i bother when i could run FW plexes in a PvP fit ship or rat in my SB or explore in my dispoable scan ship etc etc. less split attention, less stalkers. moar profit.

forums.  serious business.
TharOkha
0asis Group
#108 - 2013-10-16 13:23:27 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:

But that still does not excuse propagandistic lying platitudes like "the people of high sec can't stand the thought of any risk at all."

So I['m lying about the fact that high sec people (you know video gamers who have to hide behind magical space police) don't accept risk.

How about you disprove what I said? Show me how the average high sec only player is full of risk taking and e-bravery.


When i invest all my isk on Jita market. I risk whole fortune of mine, while you just your ship.

CODE. Venture hunt contest in a nutshell
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#109 - 2013-10-16 13:24:11 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:


How about you disprove what I said? Show me how the average high sec only player is full of risk taking and e-bravery.


Your original statement says nothing about "average".

You typed "all"....plain as day and unretractable.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#110 - 2013-10-16 13:24:12 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:


20 hours / 7 billion is a very healthy 350 million isk per hour. That doesn't include bounties.


Nor does it include reality. I'm a professions null PVe player, and unlike you have actual experience with null sec living (being in alliances, going to CTAs, dealing with hostiles in my space ect). It seems a certain way to you because you don't have to deal with other folks realities. It's bad thinking to sample something then draw huge sweeping conclusions from a minor sample.

The conclusions you draw are wrong, and the funny thing is that your own actions demonstrate it, yet your prejudices keep you from acknowledging it (you know, like that time you said null was so safe so you SOLO raided an alliance's space and killed ships....ie something you can't do in a place that's so safe...lol).



It is reality. I just did it. Making it "realistic" to expect.

As for the last comment, it was possible to do that and be successful because it was SO SAFE. The Nightmare I killed I killed while there were around 20 in local. He undocked and warped off while I was having a conversation in local about the other ship I'd just killed in the same system. He obviously didn't even check local. That's how safe it was. I check local in high sec ffs. i think most people probably do.


So you know for a fact he wasn't watching local? The part I bolded was evidence of prejudice (because people with prejudiced jump from A to E without considering B,C, or D lol).

And does one person not watching local (if he wasn't) mean the 50-60 thousand characters of null have players behind them who don't watch local? maybe the guy was just stupid. 5 of my 6 EVE years have been in null, and I've seen many a stupid person die because they weren't paying attention.

You're proving my point that I always make about your flawed observations. You watch local in high sec so you assume that others do to. Well I play in high sec all the time with local minimized unless I have a wardec. you make a little isk and you supposed the people who live there (with docking rights and such) must make that much and more.

Don't you think I'd be making a bil an hour in null if that kind of income was easy to do and sustainable? Don't you think every I know would?
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#111 - 2013-10-16 13:24:45 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:


How about you disprove what I said? Show me how the average high sec only player is full of risk taking and e-bravery.


Your original statement says nothing about "average".

You typed "all"....plain as day and unretractable.


Where did I type "all" at?
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#112 - 2013-10-16 13:27:30 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:

Semantics. When people say "high sec players" they tend to mean those high sec only players I'm talking about. Happens all the time.

well. i can accept it.

But then if you speak about some imaginary group of "only high-sec players" you should not ask anything related to ALL of players of high-sec. Agree?

Let's say "nerfing lvl4s in high-sec": as person who enjoys running lvl4s in high-sec but occasionally visit low/0.0 (look at my killboard for proofs) i will be affected of this nerf. But i don't belong to your group of "only high-sec players" so you SHOULD NOT ask about such nerf.

Jenn aSide wrote:
Is English not your 1st language?

i thought it's obvious from my posting? Shocked
i'm russian and have bad english language

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#113 - 2013-10-16 13:27:35 UTC
TharOkha wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:

But that still does not excuse propagandistic lying platitudes like "the people of high sec can't stand the thought of any risk at all."

So I['m lying about the fact that high sec people (you know video gamers who have to hide behind magical space police) don't accept risk.

How about you disprove what I said? Show me how the average high sec only player is full of risk taking and e-bravery.


When i invest all my isk on Jita market. I risk whole fortune of mine, while you just your ship.


If I only had one ship, i'd be risking the same amount of my wealth as you are risking yours. If you do indeed put all your eggs in one basket, that's crazy lol.

No one is talking about the market. We're talking about ship loss in a spaceship game. High sec is stuffed and the rest of space (not just null) is lightly populated because very many EVE players will not accept any combat risk.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#114 - 2013-10-16 13:30:22 UTC
March rabbit wrote:

well. i can accept it.

But then if you speak about some imaginary group of "only high-sec players" you should not ask anything related to ALL of players of high-sec. Agree?


I am unable to stop other people from reading to much into my typed words. I never used the word all, it was a couple of you who jumped to the wrong conclusion.


Quote:

i thought it's obvious from my posting? Shocked
i'm russian and have bad english language


You do better than some native English speakers from the looks of it lol.
Prince Kobol
#115 - 2013-10-16 13:34:06 UTC
Lugalbandak wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
Lugalbandak wrote:
I really dont get wy null sec guys have alts in empire , if you dont make more isk with anom/ded sites in null then high sec , you doing soemting awful wrong and you should pod yourself back to empire and save the damsell for the 1001 time.


Maybe because of some us have limited time when we can play without having to go afk due to RL so we chose to spend it PvP'ing.

I only get a few hours per day were I know I wont have to go afk for any number of RL reasons.

Its far easier running missions in HS / Incursions / Trading / Scamming to generate isk as you can go afk when ever you chose, even if it means just floating in space.


you can go afk in null sec anytime too , ask your ceo to put up a tower or dock at station , or just saf log off and login when you done with your girl


The fact is in HS I do not need towers, do not need to log off, do not have to worry about people who are cloaked, hell I dont even have to dock up.

Its relative risk free isk that requires little to no effort and is not interrupted by CTA's, Reds, Neuts or Competition.
TharOkha
0asis Group
#116 - 2013-10-16 13:34:56 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:

No one is talking about the market. We're talking about ship loss in a spaceship game.

Market is a part of this SANDBOX spaceship game.
Also since we are talking about risk/reward, it is just right thing to count all types of risk.
Quote:
High sec is stuffed and the rest of space (not just null) is lightly populated because very many EVE players will not accept any combat risk.

Yea there are a lot of them, but not majority.




CODE. Venture hunt contest in a nutshell
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#117 - 2013-10-16 13:36:54 UTC
TharOkha wrote:

Yea there are a lot of them, but not majority.






And you can prove this how?
Debora Tsung
Perkone
Caldari State
#118 - 2013-10-16 13:37:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Debora Tsung
Infinity Ziona wrote:

It is reality. I just did it. Making it "realistic" to expect.

As for the last comment, it was possible to do that and be successful because it was SO SAFE. The Nightmare I killed I killed while there were around 20 in local. He undocked and warped off while I was having a conversation in local about the other ship I'd just killed in the same system. He obviously didn't even check local. That's how safe it was. I check local in high sec ffs. i think most people probably do.


Lol, the short time I lived in null we all went super paranoid. Most of us stayed always aligned, the rest aligned as soon as there were reports of neuts 3 jumps away, some even docked up.

Fun Story, the one time I was being lazy and didn't align I lost that drake. xD

Made me chuckle a little.

EDIT: I really didn't realize Null has become THAT safe. Or is that just a strange time that'll be gone in a few years.

Stupidity should be a bannable offense.

Fighting back is more fun than not.

Sticky: AFK Cloaking Thread It's not pretty, but it's there.
TharOkha
0asis Group
#119 - 2013-10-16 13:45:43 UTC  |  Edited by: TharOkha
Prince Kobol wrote:

The fact is in HS I do not need towers, do not need to log off, do not have to worry about people who are cloaked, hell I dont even have to dock up.

Its relative risk free isk that requires little to no effort and is not interrupted by CTA's, Reds, Neuts or Competition.


But its your way of EVE life. You have chosen it. You have choosed to live an alliance life. So please don't complain that you dont earn as average Hisec L4 runner just because you are interrupted by nullsec events.

Because i as averange ninja ratter/plexer earn waaay much better that doing boring HS L4s.

But ranting and begging CCP to nerf HS L4s just because of your player-made problems in null is just stupid.

CODE. Venture hunt contest in a nutshell
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#120 - 2013-10-16 13:47:27 UTC
Quote:
i only addressed his misconception there as it is both a widespread and appalling mantra amongst Eve-O forum warriors. the point is that people complaining about people dropping corp, logging out or whatever way to 'dodge wars' haven't really grasped what wars are for, which is attacking a corporate entity. if people drop corp then you're achieving your aim, if you realised what it was in the first place.


Yeah, no. I'm not a dojo challenger, I am not there to take the sign above their door so they can't use it again. (the analogy being, they drop corp)

I am there to kill them. Plan and simple, if I wardec someone, I want kills.

There exists a broken mechanism that allows them to avoid any and all combat they do not choose to engage in(suicide ganking aside). That goes against the fundamental philosophy of EVE.

So, basically, I still do not understand why you, or anyone, thinks they should be able to just drop corp to avoid wardecs. Let alone how you claim to justify the abuse of this mechanic on a nigh constant basis.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.