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High Sec Income vs Null Sec Income - the reality

First post First post
Author
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
#721 - 2013-10-26 16:57:56 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
So lets repeat it so that even the cicle jerkers get it, for the average more casual and time limited player, doing anoms, with escalations and the odd site in 0.0 is the best and most efficient way to make ISK as compared to doing hisec missions.

in npc nullsec?


0.0 in total, including NPC 0.0

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
#722 - 2013-10-26 17:00:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Quote:
The low sec incursion, with a certain super as a prize, I agree with you that it is stupid that these people will not even take a T1 BS with T2 fittings into low sec, however I guess it comes down to the issues around trust in this game, you really cannot trust anyone when it comes down to a possible kill and that is why I think you will never see a low sec incursion group outside of major alliances. It would be good however.


With the new jammer, this might actually happen. Otherwise they'd just get dropped by PL or somebody. But yes in general it's a pretty bad idea.


You never know, I would do it..

EDIT: What I mean by I would do it is, risk a T1 BS fitted to T2, whats the issue in losing that? In fact it would likely mean you do incursions with a better group of people, because I find those bragging about their 67bn fits tedious in the extreme.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#723 - 2013-10-26 17:31:14 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:

Noticing that there is a circle of people around you sucking up to your posts, so much its embarassing (for them), and he was saying that people were allowed and inferring people were not allowed, it looked very much like he was getting all victorious because the OP has not posted in a while!


He never inferred any such thing.

Look at the post he was responding to. Seriously, are you crazy or something?
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
#724 - 2013-10-26 19:32:03 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:

Noticing that there is a circle of people around you sucking up to your posts, so much its embarassing (for them), and he was saying that people were allowed and inferring people were not allowed, it looked very much like he was getting all victorious because the OP has not posted in a while!


He never inferred any such thing.

Look at the post he was responding to. Seriously, are you crazy or something?


How about mildly irritated...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Ravan Hekki
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#725 - 2013-10-27 00:27:56 UTC
Holy poop you can make more isk in null than you can in HS. Is this really a thing stil? I mean scrapping all the bs propaganda off the top of this. Yeah you make more isk in Null. Hell i live in a WH and when we arn't running sites or shooting people in the face I jump a BS or ishtar into Nul and make isk, lots of isk. lots and lots of isk. I mean it's not rocket science, more risk more reward and you don't have to deal with faction standings. Also i have lived in null in a large alliance and there are plenty of sites to go round. So can we stop with this now and get round to the real reason we ***** about mission running.

WE WANT MORE PEOPLE TO SHOOT AT AND WE WILL TRY ANY BS EXCUSE TO GET YOU HERE TO SHOOT AT YOU.

Please come to null sec, thank you.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#726 - 2013-10-27 00:53:50 UTC
Ravan Hekki wrote:
Holy poop you can make more isk in null than you can in HS. Is this really a thing stil? I mean scrapping all the bs propaganda off the top of this. Yeah you make more isk in Null. Hell i live in a WH and when we arn't running sites or shooting people in the face I jump a BS or ishtar into Nul and make isk, lots of isk. lots and lots of isk. I mean it's not rocket science, more risk more reward and you don't have to deal with faction standings. Also i have lived in null in a large alliance and there are plenty of sites to go round. So can we stop with this now and get round to the real reason we ***** about mission running.

WE WANT MORE PEOPLE TO SHOOT AT AND WE WILL TRY ANY BS EXCUSE TO GET YOU HERE TO SHOOT AT YOU.

Please come to null sec, thank you.



This is what perplexes me to no end. Becuase it's ape in the jungle kncukle draggingly stupid.

If the goal was to get more people to shoot, why would we be explaining to people that null sec isk isn't truly all that great compared to high sec?

That makes peeerrfect sense. "Hey dude, come to null sec, none of the advantages of high ec, but a with 2% more isk!!!


I'm a pve player, if you aren't a blood raider or serp I don't give a damn about you lol. But I despise the common lies high sec people tell about things, like how "safe" the part of eve space with the most ship deaths is.....
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#727 - 2013-10-27 01:03:44 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Ravan Hekki wrote:
Holy poop you can make more isk in null than you can in HS. Is this really a thing stil? I mean scrapping all the bs propaganda off the top of this. Yeah you make more isk in Null. Hell i live in a WH and when we arn't running sites or shooting people in the face I jump a BS or ishtar into Nul and make isk, lots of isk. lots and lots of isk. I mean it's not rocket science, more risk more reward and you don't have to deal with faction standings. Also i have lived in null in a large alliance and there are plenty of sites to go round. So can we stop with this now and get round to the real reason we ***** about mission running.

WE WANT MORE PEOPLE TO SHOOT AT AND WE WILL TRY ANY BS EXCUSE TO GET YOU HERE TO SHOOT AT YOU.

Please come to null sec, thank you.



This is what perplexes me to no end. Becuase it's ape in the jungle kncukle draggingly stupid.

If the goal was to get more people to shoot, why would we be explaining to people that null sec isk isn't truly all that great compared to high sec?

That makes peeerrfect sense. "Hey dude, come to null sec, none of the advantages of high ec, but a with 2% more isk!!!


I'm a pve player, if you aren't a blood raider or serp I don't give a damn about you lol. But I despise the common lies high sec people tell about things, like how "safe" the part of eve space with the most ship deaths is.....


Yeah... I think you got trolled on that one Jenn.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#728 - 2013-10-27 01:22:25 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Ravan Hekki wrote:
Holy poop you can make more isk in null than you can in HS. Is this really a thing stil? I mean scrapping all the bs propaganda off the top of this. Yeah you make more isk in Null. Hell i live in a WH and when we arn't running sites or shooting people in the face I jump a BS or ishtar into Nul and make isk, lots of isk. lots and lots of isk. I mean it's not rocket science, more risk more reward and you don't have to deal with faction standings. Also i have lived in null in a large alliance and there are plenty of sites to go round. So can we stop with this now and get round to the real reason we ***** about mission running.

WE WANT MORE PEOPLE TO SHOOT AT AND WE WILL TRY ANY BS EXCUSE TO GET YOU HERE TO SHOOT AT YOU.

Please come to null sec, thank you.



This is what perplexes me to no end. Becuase it's ape in the jungle kncukle draggingly stupid.

If the goal was to get more people to shoot, why would we be explaining to people that null sec isk isn't truly all that great compared to high sec?

That makes peeerrfect sense. "Hey dude, come to null sec, none of the advantages of high ec, but a with 2% more isk!!!


I'm a pve player, if you aren't a blood raider or serp I don't give a damn about you lol. But I despise the common lies high sec people tell about things, like how "safe" the part of eve space with the most ship deaths is.....


Yeah... I think you got trolled on that one Jenn.

2% more isk huh... the things you learn on general discussion

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

ISD Suvetar
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
#729 - 2013-10-27 22:15:22 UTC
Hi Folks,

Please remember that it's actually OK to make your point without resorting to insulting someone; it's against the rules and can lead to actions being taken against your posting privileges.

Please be constructive!

Thanks.

[b]ISD Suvetar Captain/Commando Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department[/b]

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#730 - 2013-10-27 22:39:03 UTC
ISD Suvetar wrote:
Hi Folks,

Please remember that it's actually OK to make your point without resorting to insulting someone; it's against the rules and can lead to actions being taken against your posting privileges.

Please be constructive!

Thanks.


In a similar manner, I assume, to the fashion in which the OP of this thread, Infinity Ziona, questions the sexual preferences of people in another thread, starting with this post?

I mean, not to discuss moderation or anything, it's just always good to have clarification. I have full confidence in the fairness and upright nature of the ISDs, of course.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#731 - 2013-10-28 00:13:51 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
ISD Suvetar wrote:
Hi Folks,

Please remember that it's actually OK to make your point without resorting to insulting someone; it's against the rules and can lead to actions being taken against your posting privileges.

Please be constructive!

Thanks.


In a similar manner, I assume, to the fashion in which the OP of this thread, Infinity Ziona, questions the sexual preferences of people in another thread, starting with this post?

I mean, not to discuss moderation or anything, it's just always good to have clarification. I have full confidence in the fairness and upright nature of the ISDs, of course.

We keep an open mind about sexual preferences here, don't we?

I mean Xenuria was talking about a preference-compatible system of character customization right?

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#732 - 2013-10-28 04:58:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Tauranon
Dracvlad wrote:


So lets repeat it so that even the cicle jerkers get it, for the average more casual and time limited player, doing anoms, with escalations and the odd site in 0.0 is the best and most efficient way to make ISK as compared to doing hisec missions.



The only fact you offer is that you name call when you don't have any facts you can add to the debate.


#1 there are no guarenteed anoms in npc null, you have to roam, and that means cloak warp trick to move an effective ratter/plexer, and eventual loss to a bubble, or it means you have multiple accounts, a scout and beyond casual imo.

#2 you only get guarenteed anoms in sov null if you have run in a tcu (hauler), ihub (freighter) and arrays (hauler)

#3 you only get guarenteed anoms after you farm up military 1 and keep it there (it even has to be there to do the installs). That was at 4mil isk/tick belt ratting for 10+ hours in the case of my system.

#4 you only get good guarenteed anoms by possessing a good truesec system, and farming far more than military 1 and installing very large arrays (jumpfreighter for 3 and 4 and freighter for 5, and I can't tell you what a pain it is to freighter stuff from concord stations to deep quiet null).

#5 systems spawn up 10-15 deds per month (gurista space which is now well farmed and thus the sigs are being moved on regularly). If you are a casual user logging on casually, you won't see many of them. note that roaming to take multiple systems sigs is its own danger, as is taking a long time about sigs.

#6 I get one escalation per 10 hours of anom farming, so if you are fairly casual, you'll see maybe 1 escalation per month, with some months having non because escalations are 1 in 60 chances, and thus horribly streaky, I can and do go 120 anoms without one.

In short the only way you get good content at your finger tips when you log on casually is if other people are carrying you, and generally people in null get pretty sick of that and boot you.



A simple mind experiment for you.

I shot a bil isk of rats this month and pulled 3.7b of loot. If I employed one minion - there'd be a general expectation by that minion to pay 20% tax (ie 200m to rat as much as I do - since its the corp that pays rent), and to have a free run at the sigs (ie taking half). So the expected "cost" for me of hiring a minion to my corp would be 1.6b isk, and the worst case scenario would be the minion having access to the TZ directly ahead of me and taking most of the sigs, all the time.

Guess at how many minions can be shooting rats effectively at the same time in a -0.17 system ?

2, unless I've freightered in a level 5 array and we all farm enough to keep military 5, at which point I believe its maybe 5 or so (but I'm not away of any -0.17 "ish" systems with a pirate detector V), would take some map grovelling followed by covopsing to even find one to check if maybe it has the appropriate detector).

Where would the break even point for minions be (given that minions in bulk will eat all the sigs).

18.

ie I literally can't take on a casual wihtout it costing me unless I have 18 ratters well spread over TZs so as to ration the limited supply of good anoms, and then I have to find a hole for that casual to go into where they can take hubs, or they'll be doing 45mil/hr if and only if they have great skills, and I'd have to find 18 ratters that wanted to rat a crap system to begin with, and any one user would be looking at a 1/18th share of 10-15 sigs a month, and a few escalations if they were pretty active Roll
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#733 - 2013-10-28 05:04:45 UTC
Tauranon wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:


So lets repeat it so that even the cicle jerkers get it, for the average more casual and time limited player, doing anoms, with escalations and the odd site in 0.0 is the best and most efficient way to make ISK as compared to doing hisec missions.



The only fact you offer is that you name call when you don't have any facts you can add to the debate.


#1 there are no guarenteed anoms in npc null, you have to roam, and that means cloak warp trick to move an effective ratter/plexer, and eventual loss to a bubble, or it means you have multiple accounts, a scout and beyond casual imo.

#2 you only get guarenteed anoms in sov null if you have run in a tcu (hauler), ihub (freighter) and arrays (hauler)

#3 you only get guarenteed anoms after you farm up military 1 and keep it there (it even has to be there to do the installs). That was at 4mil isk/hr belt ratting for 10+ hours in the case of my system.

#4 you only get good guarenteed anoms by possessing a good truesec system, and farming far more than military 1 and installing very large arrays (jumpfreighter for 3 and 4 and freighter for 5, and I can't tell you what a pain it is to freighter stuff from concord stations to deep quiet null).

#5 systems spawn up 10-15 deds per month (gurista space which is now well farmed and thus the sigs are being moved on regularly). If you are a casual user logging on casually, you won't see many of them. note that roaming to take multiple systems sigs is its own danger, as is taking a long time about sigs.

#6 I get one escalation per 10 hours of anom farming, so if you are fairly casual, you'll see maybe 1 escalation per month, with some months having non because escalations are 1 in 60 chances, and thus horribly streaky, I can and do go 120 anoms without one.

In short the only way you get good content at your finger tips when you log on casually is if other people are carrying you, and generally people in null get pretty sick of that and boot you.



A simple mind experiment for you.

I shot a bil isk of rats this month and pulled 3.7b of loot. If I employed one minion - there'd be a general expectation by that minion to pay 20% tax (ie 200m to rat as much as I do - since its the corp that pays rent), and to have a free run at the sigs (ie taking half). So the expected "cost" for me of hiring a minion to my corp would be 1.6b isk, and the worst case scenario would be the minion having access to the TZ directly ahead of me and taking most of the sigs, all the time.

Guess at how many minions can be shooting rats effectively at the same time in a -0.17 system ?

2, unless I've freightered in a level 5 array and we all farm enough to keep military 5, at which point I believe its maybe 5 or so (but I'm not away of any -0.17 "ish" systems with a pirate detector V), would take some map grovelling followed by covopsing to even find one to check if maybe it has the appropriate detector).

Where would the break even point for minions be (given that minions in bulk will eat all the sigs).

18.

ie I literally can't take on a casual wihtout it costing me unless I have 18 ratters well spread over TZs so as to ration the limited supply of good anoms, and then I have to find a hole for that casual to go into where they can take hubs, or they'll be doing 45mil/hr if and only if they have great skills, and I'd have to find 18 ratters that wanted to rat a crap system to begin with, and any one user would be looking at a 1/18th share of 10-15 sigs a month, and a few escalations if they were pretty active Roll



There you go with you indepth analysis and rational thinking again. The is GD, post emotional nonsense or GB2WoW.
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#734 - 2013-10-28 05:10:08 UTC
Its time,

~Nerf Highsec~

.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#735 - 2013-10-28 05:30:42 UTC
If you mean nerf highsec ganking Shocked

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Smohq Anmirorz
State War Academy
Caldari State
#736 - 2013-10-30 20:04:28 UTC
high sec is just more steady, less random.

well, except for the gankings.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#737 - 2013-10-30 20:06:17 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:

Noticing that there is a circle of people around you sucking up to your posts, so much its embarassing (for them), and he was saying that people were allowed and inferring people were not allowed, it looked very much like he was getting all victorious because the OP has not posted in a while!


He never inferred any such thing.

Look at the post he was responding to. Seriously, are you crazy or something?

I've been busy making billions :)

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)

Gustaf en Gravonere
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#738 - 2013-11-01 11:43:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Gustaf en Gravonere
Not to dig this back up I've gathered some new information which is relevant.

OP's claim about hauling the stuff out of null is that it's easy and safe to find a WH to hisec and that's how he/she exports the stuff. Well, about a week ago I moved to null with my scout, into a dead end system, and have been trying to scan down a WH to hisec through which to move my ratting ship and other stuff into the system safely (all corridors into the area are camped 23/7 and I almost lost my scout just getting down there in the first place).

I've been casually scanning the system itself and the 3-4 adjacent systems (if I go any further than 3-4 hops I run into gate camps), and i've been scanning them pretty regularly, a few times a day every day. So far I have found 4 wormholes, all leading into nullsec space, none into HiSec.

So, the notion that you can easily export your stuff from Null by finding a WH into hisec space is not very true. I am not sure how often this type of WH spawns, but like I said i've been trying to find one for a week unsuccessfully. Null is full of gatecamps everywhere. If you find a quiet pocket, expect to only be able to go a few hops before running into one. That means a limited amount of systems where you can safely look for that WH.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#739 - 2013-11-01 13:01:23 UTC
Gustaf en Gravonere wrote:
Not to dig this back up I've gathered some new information which is relevant.

OP's claim about hauling the stuff out of null is that it's easy and safe to find a WH to hisec and that's how he/she exports her stuff. Well, about a week ago I moved to null with my scout, into a dead end system, and have been trying to scan down a WH to hisec through which to move my ratting ship and other stuff into the system safely (all corridors into the area are camped 23/7 and I almost lost my scout just getting down there in the first place).

I've been casually scanning the system itself and the 3-4 adjacent systems (if I go any further than 3-4 hops I run into gate camps), and i've been scanning them pretty regularly, a few times a day every day. So far I have found 4 wormholes, all leading into nullsec space, none into HiSec.

So, the notion that you can easily export your stuff from Null by finding a WH into hisec space is not very true. I am not sure how often this type of WH spawns, but like I said i've been trying to find one for a week unsuccessfully. Null is full of gatecamps everywhere. If you find a quiet pocket, expect to only be able to go a few hops before running into one. That means a limited amount of systems where you can safely look for that WH.

Heh. You find a wormhole in nullsec its usually a class 5 or 6, they usually lead into null sec or low but they also often will lead into class 1 to 3 and sometimes high, classes 1 to 3 predominantly you will find a high sec exit.

I do it all the time, you must be doing something wrong. Also if you find a hole to another null sec area you can sometimes find a hole in that area if your area is camped.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)

Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#740 - 2013-11-01 16:56:14 UTC
Hrm.... I thought this thread was locked.

Shouldn't we be talking about how great Star Citizen is instead of debating Hi-sec incomes? I mean hell. Walking around in the hanger in Star Citizen now is more than walking around in our locked Rooms in EVE. At least they can walk in their ships.

We can keep arguing though. I believe no matter how little high-sec makes, people will be mad and jealous.

Funny thing though, I was told recently to go to null sec to earn my plex's instead of wasting my time in high sec.

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

Captain Tardbar's Voice Discord Server