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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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RvR Expansion

Author
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#61 - 2012-03-06 01:55:36 UTC
Alyssa Cristole wrote:
You sir are ignorant. [If you take that as an insult look up the REAL meaning of the word] How long have you been playing? Probably a lot longer then I have. This IS AN INVESTMENT of your MONEY and TIME. The financial decisions are as much the players business as the company. Why the fu*k am I going to start playing a game, paying real money and wasting my time if it will go out of business in a few months? NOTE I am NOT saying this is going to happen, only that it IS my concern when I am deciding whether to invest my time and money into the service. Thats right, this is a service. I give money and time and they provide a service. I expect my investment is going to go to move the game in the right direction, just like you do. We may differ on what direction that is but in both cases we have investments we want to protect.

Do I want CCP to keep making money and stay in business? Of course I do. Is it my responsibility? No, of course not. I'm sure CCP has a good idea of what they want to do with their business model, and how they're going to stay alive and make money while serving their customers (us).

I think this idea would cause a lot of players to LEAVE because it goes against the entire philosophy of what this game is supposed to be about. I don't think it would be able to increase subscription rates to counter the amount of people that would leave over this.

In short, I think this idea is completely counterproductive to what you think you're trying to accomplish. It will kill the game entirely.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#62 - 2012-03-06 02:09:22 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
I'm sure CCP has a good idea of what they want to do with their business model, and how they're going to stay alive and make money while serving their customers (us).

Heh, I was until they announced they were going to start producing World of Darkness and a console only MMOFPS Lol Not to mention NeX...

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]

Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#63 - 2012-03-06 02:13:48 UTC
Simi Kusoni wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
I'm sure CCP has a good idea of what they want to do with their business model, and how they're going to stay alive and make money while serving their customers (us).

Heh, I was until they announced they were going to start producing World of Darkness and a console only MMOFPS Lol Not to mention NeX...

well,as for PS3 Dust, i eahrd they decided to let us use keyboards+mice now, and the reason its ahrd to do a cross-platform currently is that the game is a conenction between sony and CCP servers, and i do beleiev sony has 2 different servers (one for PC games, one fro PS3) that CCp didnt want to get into dealing with it, since connecting to server systems togetehr was going to be ahrd enough.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#64 - 2012-03-06 02:27:47 UTC
Simi Kusoni wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
I'm sure CCP has a good idea of what they want to do with their business model, and how they're going to stay alive and make money while serving their customers (us).

Heh, I was until they announced they were going to start producing World of Darkness and a console only MMOFPS Lol Not to mention NeX...

Referring only to EVE, there's nothing fundamentally wrong with NeX. It's a vanity store that provides a major ISK sink for those who choose to use it, with absolutely no disadvantage to those who don't choose to use it. All of the outrage connected to it had to do with a document that shouldn't have been leaked that's pretty much nobody's business outside of CCP. Internal documents written for the express purpose of debating controversial positions don't indicate the direction the entire company intends to go. The whole thing was blown WAY out of proportion. I said it then and I say it now.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#65 - 2012-03-06 02:53:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Fredfredbug4
People would take you more seriously if you actually saw the flaws of your idea and tried to resolve them rather than outright insulting people that doesn't like your idea defeats the whole purpose of creating a thread. Why share an idea with the community rather than sending it directly to a CCP Dev if you aren't going to listen to our input?

The reason why people aren't saying much else is because that one flaw, that you want a completely different server other than for testing goes against everything CCP has been working for with EVE.

Plus stop acting like you know stuff about business. A lot of people would lose faith in the game if it went the route to becoming just another MMO. How is pissing off their current player base who have given CCP millions of dollars worth of revenue good for business? How is taking away one of the major things that have made EVE the highest rated MMO for years now good for business?

Then we have the whole factor of how current EVE space is unevenly populated. For every person living in nullsec there dozens maybe even hundreds of people living in hisec. Do you know how severely depopulated Nullsec would be if you even halfed the amount of people on the servers? Many people would quit just because of how boring things become. The only way to counter this would be to drastically reduce the size of the world in EVE which would be another no-no.

Just because you can punch numbers into a calculator doesn't mean you have a degree in business.

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!

Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#66 - 2012-03-06 03:08:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Simi Kusoni
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Referring only to EVE, there's nothing fundamentally wrong with NeX. It's a vanity store that provides a major ISK sink for those who choose to use it, with absolutely no disadvantage to those who don't choose to use it. All of the outrage connected to it had to do with a document that shouldn't have been leaked that's pretty much nobody's business outside of CCP. Internal documents written for the express purpose of debating controversial positions don't indicate the direction the entire company intends to go. The whole thing was blown WAY out of proportion. I said it then and I say it now.

I'll agree with that, my issue with NeX though was the massive development cycle for WiS and the complete lack of content. Given the resources put into it, it was either very badly mismanaged or the scope went way beyond what they were capable of. And if the scope was really so far beyond their capacity to fulfill it, they never should have tried to aim for it in such a short development cycle. Not at the cost of neglecting the rest of Eve at any rate.

Same with WoD and Dust, I have nothing against them in particular, I even understand why Dust was console only (for one thing, competing with market share among another one of your own products target demographics is just dumb) but it was very very brave of CCP to take on so much, that they had such little experience in, in such a short time.

Anyway I don't mind NeX, I wouldn't have minded seeing some real content come out for it if it was varied and reasonably priced. The point is that it wasn't, and WiS content still hasn't materialized even now.

At least CCP seem to be back on the right track now though Smile

*EDIT: Also, Fred, read the last post on the 3rd page.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]

James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#67 - 2012-03-06 03:15:50 UTC
Simi Kusoni wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Referring only to EVE, there's nothing fundamentally wrong with NeX. It's a vanity store that provides a major ISK sink for those who choose to use it, with absolutely no disadvantage to those who don't choose to use it. All of the outrage connected to it had to do with a document that shouldn't have been leaked that's pretty much nobody's business outside of CCP. Internal documents written for the express purpose of debating controversial positions don't indicate the direction the entire company intends to go. The whole thing was blown WAY out of proportion. I said it then and I say it now.

I'll agree with that, my issue with NeX though was the massive development cycle for WiS and the complete lack of content. Given the resources put into it, it was either very badly mismanaged or the scope went way beyond what they were capable of. And if the scope was really so far beyond their capacity to fulfill it, they never should have tried to aim for it in such a short development cycle. Not at the cost of neglecting the rest of Eve at any rate.

Same with WoD and Dust, I have nothing against them in particular, I even understand why Dust was console only (for one thing, competing with market share among another one of your own products target demographics is just dumb) but it was very very brave of CCP to take on so much, that they had such little experience in, in such a short time.

Anyway I don't mind NeX, I wouldn't have minded seeing some real content come out for it if it was varied and reasonably priced. The point is that it wasn't, and WiS content still hasn't materialized even now.

At least CCP seem to be back on the right track now though Smile

*EDIT: Also, Fred, read the last post on the 3rd page.

Yeah, you're right.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#68 - 2012-03-06 03:31:18 UTC
Simi Kusoni wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Referring only to EVE, there's nothing fundamentally wrong with NeX. It's a vanity store that provides a major ISK sink for those who choose to use it, with absolutely no disadvantage to those who don't choose to use it. All of the outrage connected to it had to do with a document that shouldn't have been leaked that's pretty much nobody's business outside of CCP. Internal documents written for the express purpose of debating controversial positions don't indicate the direction the entire company intends to go. The whole thing was blown WAY out of proportion. I said it then and I say it now.

I'll agree with that, my issue with NeX though was the massive development cycle for WiS and the complete lack of content. Given the resources put into it, it was either very badly mismanaged or the scope went way beyond what they were capable of. And if the scope was really so far beyond their capacity to fulfill it, they never should have tried to aim for it in such a short development cycle. Not at the cost of neglecting the rest of Eve at any rate.

Same with WoD and Dust, I have nothing against them in particular, I even understand why Dust was console only (for one thing, competing with market share among another one of your own products target demographics is just dumb) but it was very very brave of CCP to take on so much, that they had such little experience in, in such a short time.

Anyway I don't mind NeX, I wouldn't have minded seeing some real content come out for it if it was varied and reasonably priced. The point is that it wasn't, and WiS content still hasn't materialized even now.

At least CCP seem to be back on the right track now though Smile

*EDIT: Also, Fred, read the last post on the 3rd page.


I see now...sorta. Kinda got bored after reading the first page so I didn't think anything interesting happened after that.

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!

Nestara Aldent
Citimatics
#69 - 2012-03-06 06:44:06 UTC
Simi Kusoni wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
I'm sure CCP has a good idea of what they want to do with their business model, and how they're going to stay alive and make money while serving their customers (us).

Heh, I was until they announced they were going to start producing World of Darkness and a console only MMOFPS Lol Not to mention NeX...


Actually WoD Online would have strong niche following just like this game. How much there are vampire games on the market? There are none, but demand exists, as vampire fiction have its fans. IMO its a mistake the project was shelved.

Dust 514 on the other hand will compete with established FPS games which have large following. Things can thus easily go bad for CCP, and unfortunately, that's what I predict.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#70 - 2012-03-06 08:03:25 UTC
Alyssa Cristole wrote:
Unfortunately, the two gameplay styles can't coexist as they are complete polar opposites. To have one means you have to completely eliminate the other; the in-between is some watered down BS that does not please either sides of the coin. Scams, Ganking, Pk'ing, Thievery, Fraud, and every other sort of douchebaggery still occurs in HighSec; there is no real safe place for the casual player in Eve Online.
Sure there is: anywhere where you make your on safety. It's not even particularly hard to do so — all you have to do is accept the fact that the game doesn't do it for you.

The problem with your entire idea lies in this paragraph: what you say here is almost entirely inaccurate. Not only can the two gameplay styles coexist (as EVE shows every day) — they two are completely dependent on each other. Remove one, and the other becomes pointless or impossible. If you want to see what happens if you do, go play on Sisi for a month — it offers exactly the gameplay you're suggesting and it is not attracting a large following (even setting aside the constant resets on sisi, which you can work around). People who think the game would be better if part of it was removed or sectioned off have not understood how the game works, and can therefore not foresee the consequences of their suggestions. It's really as simple as that.

CCP is in the business of making money. That's why they're not making yet another PvE fest that fails after a year because Blizzard does it better. They offer something completely different and have survived for close to a decade because — not in spite of — this decision. What you're asking for is not a simple splitting off of the game; it's the creation of a completely different game that, at best, shares some art assets. The work (and hardware cost) going into such a project is simply not worth the effort, because the market isn't there to support it.
Xorv
Questionable Acquisitions
#71 - 2012-03-06 09:54:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Xorv
Tippia wrote:
Alyssa Cristole wrote:
Unfortunately, the two gameplay styles can't coexist as they are complete polar opposites. To have one means you have to completely eliminate the other; the in-between is some watered down BS that does not please either sides of the coin. Scams, Ganking, Pk'ing, Thievery, Fraud, and every other sort of douchebaggery still occurs in HighSec; there is no real safe place for the casual player in Eve Online.
Sure there is: anywhere where you make your on safety. It's not even particularly hard to do so — all you have to do is accept the fact that the game doesn't do it for you.

The problem with your entire idea lies in this paragraph: what you say here is almost entirely inaccurate. Not only can the two gameplay styles coexist (as EVE shows every day) — they two are completely dependent on each other. Remove one, and the other becomes pointless or impossible. If you want to see what happens if you do, go play on Sisi for a month — it offers exactly the gameplay you're suggesting and it is not attracting a large following (even setting aside the constant resets on sisi, which you can work around). People who think the game would be better if part of it was removed or sectioned off have not understood how the game works, and can therefore not foresee the consequences of their suggestions. It's really as simple as that.


Industry, the market, and PvE resource gathering are largely dependent on player conflict and PvP, and of course so to is the reverse. However, that's not what I reading from the Alyssa's posts, as being incompatible. What is largely incompatible is Sandbox PvP and Themepark PvE. A lot of the problems with EVE and the underlying arguments in these forums boils down to these two forms of game play clashing with one another.

Actually forget even about PvP vs PvE, that's not even the core of the issue, nor is it casual vs hardcore. It is Sandbox vs Themepark. Visualize an actual Sandbox with kids playing in it. One child is building a big castle out of the sand, another beside him is digging a big pit, a third is drawing pictures. What happens? Well moving sand at one end of the pit can affect the other, sand is malleable but it's also connected. The children have to deal with one another as all their projects are affected by each other, the pictures can be erased, the pit filled in, the castle collapse, and this is without any conflict motivator.

Now think of the Themepark, you line up for the ride, you go on the ride, you finish the ride. Ultimately shy of some kid beside you throwing up the outcome is certain, consistent, and everyone gets their turn unaffected by anyone else. Further each ride can be completed multiple times and it will still remain largely consistent over the first or the 1000th time.

You cannot reasonably integrate these two concepts, and certainly not the expectations of those that look for each. OPer as I interpret it is looking for that controlled predictable Themepark experience, and cannot accept nor deal with the Sandbox realities. The problem is that CCP, perhaps in their wish to expand subscribers have increasingly coddled Themepark type players and aimed to control the Sandbox, but they haven't removed it entirely either. The result being a growing community divide of equally dissatisfied players.

Lastly while everyone criticizes the OPer for calling for separate servers, I actually don't think that's as dumb as what CCP has been doing in trying to balance Themepark and Sandbox expectations on the same server.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#72 - 2012-03-06 10:54:46 UTC
Xorv wrote:
Actually forget even about PvP vs PvE, that's not even the core of the issue, nor is it casual vs hardcore. It is Sandbox vs Themepark.
…and this is a sandbox game. It cannot be “converted” to a themepark the way the OP wants without rebuilding the game from scratch, and doing so is not worth the effort.

Quote:
Lastly while everyone criticizes the OPer for calling for separate servers, I actually don't think that's as dumb as what CCP has been doing in trying to balance Themepark and Sandbox expectations on the same server.
I don't particularly think they have. People have just come into the game and assumed that their themepark assumptions will work, and then it turns out that they don't. CCP may have added some content that the themeparkers might have incorrectly perceived as “theirs”, but there isn't any actual themepark behind it so they get confused all over again.

I suppose you could interpret the security creep as some kind of themeparki:isation but there's no actual themepark there — just a sandbox with fewer spades.
Plaude Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#73 - 2012-03-06 11:31:01 UTC
One word is enough to express my honest and sincere opinion on this topic: "No."

We don't need more servers. We need more players on the existing server. And CCP needs to focus at least the majority of their manpower on FIXING existing mechanics and items, rather than making new things. An extra server is not fixing things. It's adding things.

New to EVE? Want to learn? The Crimson Cartel will train you in the fields of _**your **_choice. Mainly active in EU afternoons and evenings. Contact me for more info.

Di Mulle
#74 - 2012-03-06 11:47:46 UTC
Alyssa Cristole wrote:
If I offered you a choice of (300,000 x $15) $4,500,000 a month or (10 mil x $15) $150,000,000 a month which would you choose? From a business prospective, which is better?




I heard that argument more times thatn you made posts here. You take that choice as granted.

Well, it may be valid, but only way to check is to experiment. Guess what, so far experiments largely failed. There were many self-proclaimed WOW-killers (and they had resources more than CCP has), but most of them now avoid to remember those claims.
<<Insert some waste of screen space here>>
Ambre Alephar
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#75 - 2012-03-06 11:58:04 UTC
It's sad that the discussion ended up stupidly because of a rather stubborn OP.

Still I think RvR already exists in the form of Factional Warfare. Sure it is different to one the original RvR mechanic DAoC (I don't say the original because I wasn't playing online before) but the spirit is here. DAoC was a great game, perhaps the best MMO in his time. It came after T4P and was clearly leading the way to what is WoW now.

FW needs a rework (at least that's what people say - my corp isn't into that) but to say that we need a dedicated server for that is both foolish and completely ignoring that the success of DAoC was based on RvR implemented in every PvP area.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#76 - 2012-03-06 12:04:57 UTC
OP, please list all the none PvP things we do in Eve.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
#77 - 2012-03-06 12:33:08 UTC
I hardly think a 6 day old player is qualified to make suggestions of this magnitude.

You have not had time to understand how the PvP players and the PvE players need each other to maintain the great game that Eve is.

A PvE only server would have no point, appart from to make money and buy a titan, and sit it it.

A PvP based server would lack the industry side to produce those lovely ships (soon to be explosions).

Without the constant threat of PvP, the PvE side of things would be boring and unrewarding. Plus the PvE server would simply turn into a BOTers heaven, as people simply Botted their way to a fortune then bought big ships to do nothing in.


OP. I hope my quick explination has helped. I know you can't possibly have much of an insight of Eve as a whole in you 6 days of playing. I imagine all the anti PvP butthurt is due to some can labled 'free stuff' or you were mining into a jetcan.

Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.

Velicitia
XS Tech
#78 - 2012-03-06 13:40:43 UTC
Simi Kusoni wrote:
but it was very very brave of CCP to take on so much, that they had such little experience in, in such a short time.


EvE, in a nutshell.Cool

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia

Skippermonkey
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#79 - 2012-03-06 14:38:58 UTC
posting in a bad thread

COME AT ME BRO

I'LL JUST BE DOCKED IN THIS STATION

Zixie Draco
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#80 - 2012-03-06 15:50:36 UTC


Vote for Skippermonkey for CSM in a few hours.... he'll make sure this doesn't happen.

Would you like a kitten?