Player Features and Ideas Discussion

You can get PK'd in 1.0 HighSec. Sure the Pk'er will loose their ship, but who cares when you can afford to build 100's of them and your implants are protected by a special clone dupe which again, only established players can afford. If you are so leet why didn't you cry "no" when CCP added the ability to protect your implants? Because you don't like having to risk anything in the game but you love talking about and pretending you have risk. Again, you do not know risk anymore so its easy to defend it.

FYI: How the hell was I suppose to know? We have already hashed out this one and I admitted I was a noob as well as AP doesn't give popups warnings for LowSec. I ended up there picking up a skill book for Archeology, ya know the biggest leet combat skill, because it was not sold in HighSec space where I was in any of the markets I could find. That was after a mission that took me near that sector. Its done and over with, I replaced the ship and got my skill book. I even learned something by the whole experience. But, it does not change the fact that long time players have no risk yet like to brag about how they are so amazing because they can squish ants. In reality you don't have risk, you dont have the fear of starting over, you can laugh when you loose a ship because you can make hundreds more where that came from.

They were put in because it was part of the starter mission which told me to do so, and they give them in the starter missions because thats the only way someone who is just starting off in a game thats been running for 10 years can actually train skills quick enough to be able to survive. Would a cave man with his spear survive in the Iraq war? I am chill and believe it or not I am actually getting used to all the BS, but I find it hilarious that some of you can't comprehend what I am saying. Its so obvious there is a serous disconnect between old players and new ones.

And FYI I don't want a fking hand out. You could offer me 1 bil isk right now and I would turn it down because I think thats totally BS. Just like I can't stand people who buy "gold" with real world money. I don't want a hand out, I want to be left alone for a few weeks and learn the damn game w/o having to deal with the nonsense. After that, its on. Is that so much to ask? You know why amamake is so dangerous? Because it borders noobvill and you old time players dont like to take risks so you pk new players instead.

one thing CCP DOES NOT HAVE is blizzard's vast and unending wealth stolen from the wallets of unknowing parents.
the Servers CCP can afford can abrely keep up with the single-universe we ahev now, so imagine what happens if it tries to not only keep track of TWO SUSTAINED UNIVERSE but all the "new players" (accounts) that woudl be active?

this would needlessly drain CCP's welath and would froce them to downsize their dev teams AGAIN to keep up with maintenence costs, causing eve to stagnant and then die.

also, not even CCP wants to ahev 2 servers, they ahev stated that, hell its their BLOODY MOTTO for eve online.

Tl;Dr HTFU, your diea would be unneccessarily stressful for the serveers and a waste of developer time.

Wrong. They're in the tutorial so you're not sitting around 6 months later saying "What's an implant?". Also, your "keeping up with the older players" is completely invalid in Eve. A new player can hold their own if they put forth the effort to do so, there's no 'end game' to work towards, there's just "What do I feel like doing next".


This 'disconnect' is the older players knowing how Eve works and newer players thinking it's just like any other MMO. It's a difference of experience and knowing that Eve is different from all the other MMOs out there.



And, yes, asking to be left along for a while is too much to ask. Because the next thing noobs would be asking to be left alone for longer, and then longer, and then "no one should ever be able to attack me without my permission". This is completely against the whole philosophy of Eve.

And Amamake doesn't border noob systems at all, it's atleast half a dozen jumps betwen Amamake and the nearest noob system I can think of. There isn't a "noobzone" in Eve, there's your starting system with a bare minimum of "strongly discouraged" things and then you're in the real world.

Eve is a harsh and cruel world, just like the real one. There was no force field around your crib protecting you from a random psycho coming in and killing you and I hurt myself enough times as a small child to learn what was and wasn't dangerous. In that respect you're still a child in Eve, there's nothing protecting you from getting hurt, you have to learn to survive in the big bad world just like the rest of us did, that's how life works.

Bullshit man, there was a forcefield protecting you, its called the fact that in the real world people die. Dead, no rez. In the real world you come into my house you get the barrel of a legally owned shortened Mossberg 12g right up your ass. No joke, or interwebs bragging. Perm death is the ultimate deterrent. This game is a perfect example at why humans should not live forever, at how fked up a species we really are, and what would happen if there was no law in our civilization. Don't even think about comparing this to the real world because in the real world bernie madoff goes to jail. In Eve, Bad Bobby walks away laughing.

Edit: How many people do you think would risk what they do if it were so hardcore that when they died they made a new character? You want to be leet? Delete your character and start over every time you get pod killed. We'll see how much risk you take then. That's how to make this mimic the "real world" you are talking about.

Emoleas Ozran: Give this guy a PM in game and see if he'll take a minute to message you back about the new player experience :) I am a vet, I'm aware of that, that's why I also pointed out Emoleas. He's literally a late 2011 toon, and he's well on track to becoming richer than me.

The point is both Emo and me would have, in your multi-shard universe, had no one to sell our stuff too. Both of us make ISK selling nanoribbons and deadspace loot. One is involved in T3 production, the other is used on shiny ships. The market for T3s (especially since the tengu doctrines, yaaaaay, price spike!) and deadspace gear is driven by PvP losses.

On a server populated by PvE characters, like your proposed server (and it WOULD be populated by PvE characters), there would be no market. Not to mention the fact that there would be half the number of people online (probably less, because let's face it most players wouldn't move.)


To be honest, I will usually **** with people just to ruin their day. I fall into that group, but I have been known to let people go because they've been friendly back in local. I've also been known to send noobs a few hundred million after I killed their badly fitted PvE battle cruisers, just because they've private convo'd me, and once they stopped raging sounded like nice guys.

In fact we actually had a few members in rage alliance that joined after we killed them But basically, in Eve everyone will always be presented as being absolute douche bags, and given the chance we will be. But if you chat to people, remain calm and reasonable, and try and get into a good corp then eventually you will find people that will help you.

Not everyone in Eve is mean, we just like to look like we are in case some Wow players are watching and considering swapping games


I hope it lasts 20 years too :)

You never know, maybe if it lasts long enough it'll get a big enough subscription base that they won't be able to run it on a single shard universe. I'd hate not being able to interact with everyone on the forums in game, but mehhhh. Having a fresh Eve would be interesting

Actually I wonder if there are limitations on the number of people that could realistically play simultaneously, or if they could just continue adding/upgrading/reinforcing nodes? Hmm...

@Simi Kusoni Wow, see you're not as much of a prick as you want to try and make yourself out to be after all. If you want to keep trying, you should not makes posts like this that actually make you out to sound like a decent human being just out to have some fun ; )





I have changed careers several times in my life but a long time ago I did IT server work. The main issue I see Eve having is that its so open and so vast, that they can't predict when and where there is going to be a massive flood of people. They can try and compensate with adaptive multitasking that switches processor load to those severs that are actively hosting the region that has the flood of players, but the problem is that gets you so far and for so long. It literally turns into the straw that breaks the camels back. I can only assume this is why they do so many stress tests and why the game has downtime every day instead of once a week like other (larger populated) games. Building a bigger cluster will help but there is only so much you can do with current technology.

I really want to wrap this thread up if its ok with everyone?



One last thing. @ Nariya Kentaya about carebears.

You are right, I am a carebear. Talk is cheep on the internet and those talking are usually the ones who are full of sh*t. Those who aren't are usually smart enough not to brag or sell their background so cheaply. In my case, most of my background I can't sell it even if I wanted to.

I left that line of work when my time was up and I now am on ambulance. At least I now do good things for people who can't help themselves. Yes, this bleeds over into my online gaming "personality". Trust me, I would love to be a hardcore prick, but its no longer in my nature. You want to experience one of my easier jobs? Go work on an ambulance and do chest compressions on a dead 3 year old burn victim as their skin peels off in your hands, bring them back just to have some arrogant prick doctor pull your ET tube because they want to play hero, only to watch the kid die of asphyxiation. You want to know what leet is? Get up the next day and do it all over again.

One thing most a-holes on the internet don't seem to get from their safe, cushy basement couch is that the real world is nothing like what they perceive it to be. Most of you probably have not had that iron curtain pulled back and see whats on the other side. Trust me its not pretty.

Maybe this is not the game for me, but it will be a warm day in the 9th circle of hell before I will let bastrds on the internet get to me. The only person who will do that is myself and if it hasn't happened yet its not going to happen. If I quit its on my own terms.

How about we make a deal and you try and remember people (carebears like myself) are sometimes that way because of life experiences and I will try to remember that sometimes it happens to work in reverse.

Anyway, this is really the end of my discussion in this thread as I have already gotten way to personal for my comfort on a public forum.

I mean this, thank you for your replies. Even the a-hole ones. I guess thats a carebear response in itself. Cest la Vie.

*facepalms*

Nariya Kentaya Alyssa Cristole... you are proposing an idea just as much to us as you are to CCP. Since you are proposing such sweeping changes, you need to convince everyone that your idea is to the benefit of EVE and does not break it (neither in terms of gameplay or principle-wise).
Just because you feel the idea is a "no-brainer" it doesn't mean that the rest of us feel the same way.

From where I stand...

The "market" argument: Your idea would effectively "break" the balance that currently exists.
Miners supply the raw materials for producing things... industrialists refine the raw materials and produce things... traders and haulers supply said products... PvPers destroy said "products" and protect their own... and we come full circle.
If you take out the PvPers from the equation, nothing gets destroyed and so the traders and haulers have no one to supply (and people who do "PvE-only" stuff rarely lose ships)... with no traders and haulers buying/moving stuff industrialists have no reason to buy ore and build stuff... with no one buying ore then miners have no reason to mine.
This is one of the biggest reasons why so many other virtual economies are FUBAR. Nothing gets "destroyed" and eventually the same equipment becomes so over-farmed and abundant that it effectively becomes worthless... even more so when newer, more powerful, equipment becomes available.

The "marketing" argument: CCP has marketed EVE as a single shard universe... where any action you take affects everyone else for better or worse and the same can be done back to you. Beyond that... the game's rules are "flexible" enough that things can go either way depending on the creativity and abilities of each person.
And this marketing campaign has been going on for YEARS. I can only guess as to how much money has been spent on it. This implies that CCP LIKES being seen as a world of war, destruction, and scamming.
Beyond that... appealing to a niche market that no other game currently appeals to (not since Ultima Online before they "split" the worlds) is actually a VERY smart business move in an industry that is often known for its volatility (because everyone is more or less copying each other with their own "little" spin on it).

The "principle" argument: EVE is not for everyone. The DEVs have said it, the players have echoed it. And in a way... CCP sticking to the "principles of EVE" (e.g. "greater risk, greater reward" and "cold, harsh, and unforgiving" and "everything affects everyone, for better or worse" and "you can never be 100% safe anywhere") have become a sort of "unofficial marketing gimmick" that attracts people who are tired of the "same old, same old" and want something "more."
Now... will this get CCP 10 million subs like WoW? Hardly. But CCP seems hellbent of making a game that conforms to THEIR "vision" (see: "Wild West in Space")... and that is the reason why many of us stay and are so loyal.

edit: got the names mixed up.

Brilliant. As someone looking in from the outside, this is the best (and only) post in this thread that explains things in a way that actually supports your argument. And it makes total sense. Now if the hardcore PVP'ers could actually listen to reason like a carebear there might be a happy medium that works for both sides. That happy medium doesn't even have to be straight down the middle it can be 75% griefer and 25% carebear with everyone coexisting, trust me it will not cause Eve Armageddon. I just hope the "other side" will at least try and listen to a little reason too instead of posting threads like "lets go blow up HighSec because these bitc*s aren't cool enough to play our game."

Everyone can still lie, cheat, and murder each other with out being an absolute cksucker about it every time they do it. Tone it back just a little bit, murder their ass and move on with it instead of doing it and then shi*ting on their corpse just to be a tool. You do that, you might draw in the players like myself who are carebears, but carebears who accept the world is not a pretty place. Seriously, a big fu new player is not being leet, badass or anything else other then just a prick. For reference I am not talking about my PK incident here, just the fact most Eve players seem to sh*t on new players as a second hobby. There is a happy medium but neither side has yet to find it. Old players are worried this will turn into Wow and a lot of new players get frustrated as it seems like you are trying to learn to walk while dodging rockets, which despite what someone else said, it is NOT real life realistic unless you live in the real life sandbox in the middle east.


Nariya Kentaya
"...As 90% of the players would leave for the new server"

If I wasn't a carebear I might actually run with this one. : ) /big hug! I <3 you! Kisses!




You sir are ignorant. [If you take that as an insult look up the REAL meaning of the word] How long have you been playing? Probably a lot longer then I have. This IS AN INVESTMENT of your MONEY and TIME. The financial decisions are as much the players business as the company. Why the fu*k am I going to start playing a game, paying real money and wasting my time if it will go out of business in a few months? NOTE I am NOT saying this is going to happen, only that it IS my concern when I am deciding whether to invest my time and money into the service. Thats right, this is a service. I give money and time and they provide a service. I expect my investment is going to go to move the game in the right direction, just like you do. We may differ on what direction that is but in both cases we have investments we want to protect.


EDIT:

Now in a completly unrelated to the above paragraph note; after some serious thought...

I would like to apologize for stereotyping all Eve players, and not just a select few. I would like to think some of you hardcore people can understand that a select few of you ARE actually as*holes that take it a little too far; just like a select few of the carebears exploit isk farming in HighSec and other game breaking BS. There are people who break the game on both sides and neither is 100% right. If people can actually agree on this notion, I am fairly sure both sides would benefit.

I want to take a moment to thank Simi and Mxzf... you are both saying everything I want to say but can't (birthday hangover FTL).