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RvR Expansion

Author
Alyssa Cristole
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#41 - 2012-03-05 22:26:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Alyssa Cristole
mxzf wrote:
No, your issue is that you went into Amamake in your only ship. Eve isn't a soft and cuddly world, if you make a mistake (like wandering into the most widely known dangerous lowsec system in your only ship), then will will suffer for it. This isn't an issue with Eve, that was you making a mistake and paying the consequences for it.

New players can get a foothold in the game if they make an effort to do so (which is what most/all of us have done), but Eve won't hold your hand and protect you from your own bad decisions.


You can get PK'd in 1.0 HighSec. Sure the Pk'er will loose their ship, but who cares when you can afford to build 100's of them and your implants are protected by a special clone dupe which again, only established players can afford. If you are so leet why didn't you cry "no" when CCP added the ability to protect your implants? Because you don't like having to risk anything in the game but you love talking about and pretending you have risk. Again, you do not know risk anymore so its easy to defend it.

FYI: How the hell was I suppose to know? We have already hashed out this one and I admitted I was a noob as well as AP doesn't give popups warnings for LowSec. I ended up there picking up a skill book for Archeology, ya know the biggest leet combat skill, because it was not sold in HighSec space where I was in any of the markets I could find. That was after a mission that took me near that sector. Its done and over with, I replaced the ship and got my skill book. I even learned something by the whole experience. But, it does not change the fact that long time players have no risk yet like to brag about how they are so amazing because they can squish ants. In reality you don't have risk, you dont have the fear of starting over, you can laugh when you loose a ship because you can make hundreds more where that came from.
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#42 - 2012-03-05 22:38:59 UTC
Obligatory umadbro?

You seriously just need to chill and learn the game mechanics :) guess what, we've been where you are, we learnt how to play and got better. Quit acting so butt hurt, dont expect everything to be handed to you and dont fly expensive ships until you can afford to throw them away.

Implants? If you're that space poor you shouldn't haven't even had them in, but for what its worth you can buy a jump clone for a few million. Just dont fly into amamake if you're a noob, lol.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]

Alyssa Cristole
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#43 - 2012-03-05 22:43:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Alyssa Cristole
Simi Kusoni wrote:
Obligatory umadbro?

You seriously just need to chill and learn the game mechanics :) guess what, we've been where you are, we learnt how to play and got better. Quit acting so butt hurt, dont expect everything to be handed to you and dont fly expensive ships until you can afford to throw them away.

Implants? If you're that space poor you shouldn't haven't even had them in, but for what its worth you can buy a jump clone for a few million. Just dont fly into amamake if you're a noob, lol.


They were put in because it was part of the starter mission which told me to do so, and they give them in the starter missions because thats the only way someone who is just starting off in a game thats been running for 10 years can actually train skills quick enough to be able to survive. Would a cave man with his spear survive in the Iraq war? I am chill and believe it or not I am actually getting used to all the BS, but I find it hilarious that some of you can't comprehend what I am saying. Its so obvious there is a serous disconnect between old players and new ones.

And FYI I don't want a fking hand out. You could offer me 1 bil isk right now and I would turn it down because I think thats totally BS. Just like I can't stand people who buy "gold" with real world money. I don't want a hand out, I want to be left alone for a few weeks and learn the damn game w/o having to deal with the nonsense. After that, its on. Is that so much to ask? You know why amamake is so dangerous? Because it borders noobvill and you old time players dont like to take risks so you pk new players instead.
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#44 - 2012-03-05 22:50:57 UTC
Well I must admit I'm an old player, but I left eve for a long time. When I came back I had no assets, and only one character. This was around 7-8 months ago, since then ive bought a few more toons and totalled a mass of about 20b liquid ISK. God knows how much in assets.

I know someone else, emoleas ozran, that started playing during this time. He has less SP than this alt of mine, but not only kept up with me on the killboards he also made billions clearing c1/c2 wormholes and ninja plexing radars/mag sites. I think he's bought a higher SP toon now too, and he has one alt I know of.

So it isn't impossible, its just not easy. Welcome to Eve.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]

Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#45 - 2012-03-05 22:54:04 UTC
Alyssa Cristole wrote:
No one has still been able to come up with a counter argument, showing you are nothing but a bunch of scared little children afraid that if given the choice most of the current Eve players would rather not deal with douchebags. There is no other reason you would be so against opening of a different kind of server for people who would not play this game in its current state.

I never once said get rid of Eve's current server or its current gameplay style. I just suggested opening up a different server that was aimed at bringing in people who dont want to play with a-holes. How would this effect your game? If you don't like this new server idea then you would not have to play, you and every other current Eve player who likes the game the way it is now could stick to the current server.

Once again, someone come up with a single argument against what I wrote above instead of acting like a bunch of scared little bullies that are afraid that if given the choice most players would not want to play with you? Because if that statement is false then you have nothing to fear from this new server. Correct? It would only draw players that are not interesting in playing Eve in its current state and appeal to a different group of people who you would never see anyway. How does that break your game? How does the company who makes your game growing and expanding to accommodate a different group of players on a different server that has no bearing on the current server effect your gameplay?

Its a simple question yet not one of you can answer it, all you are doing is acting like a bunch of spoiled little brats.

Answer it. You can't. All you can do is act like children and say "I know you are but what am I". Not one reply has answered my question and I think its a pretty simple one.

one thing CCP DOES NOT HAVE is blizzard's vast and unending wealth stolen from the wallets of unknowing parents.
the Servers CCP can afford can abrely keep up with the single-universe we ahev now, so imagine what happens if it tries to not only keep track of TWO SUSTAINED UNIVERSE but all the "new players" (accounts) that woudl be active?

this would needlessly drain CCP's welath and would froce them to downsize their dev teams AGAIN to keep up with maintenence costs, causing eve to stagnant and then die.

also, not even CCP wants to ahev 2 servers, they ahev stated that, hell its their BLOODY MOTTO for eve online.

Tl;Dr HTFU, your diea would be unneccessarily stressful for the serveers and a waste of developer time.
Alyssa Cristole
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#46 - 2012-03-05 23:05:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Alyssa Cristole
Simi Kusoni wrote:
Well I must admit I'm an old player, but I left eve for a long time. When I came back I had no assets, and only one character. This was around 7-8 months ago, since then ive bought a few more toons and totalled a mass of about 20b liquid ISK. God knows how much in assets.

I know someone else, emoleas ozran, that started playing during this time. He has less SP than this alt of mine, but not only kept up with me on the killboards he also made billions clearing c1/c2 wormholes and ninja plexing radars/mag sites. I think he's bought a higher SP toon now too, and he has one alt I know of.

So it isn't impossible, its just not easy. Welcome to Eve.



Hun, you made my point. You started playing Eve a long time ago. Even if you quit, your still a vet. In fact I would say you are even more of a vet then people who have been playing for the past few years straight because you started in a time when new players were offered nothing and given no handouts. For you to transition back into the game it was a lot easier then someone just starting out dealing with a very well established player economy. I am not saying its not impossible, and I am not asking for it to be dumbed down. My OP was in fact not intended to try and break your game. For example, I have Verizon for my Cell. Verizon are a bunch of money grubbing bastrds, but I still want them to do well; if they do well then my service improves because they have the funds to expand. There is a market for people who don't want to play as hardcore as others in this game and its too bad they will never experience how amazing it is because they cant stomach the bullsht.

Do you really think I would still be here arguing this if I could give a ratsass? I guess this is the interwebs so I will give you the benefit of the doubt on that one because there are plenty of trolls who love to fk with people, but thats not me. I am old enough to be at the point in life where I don't argue sht I don't care about. If I didn't like the game I would not bother with wasting my day replying. I happen to be the worst communicator on the planet, so please forgive me if I have not made my point clear. All I am trying to get at is there is tough love and then there is bullshit. There is trial by fire, and then there is fking with people just to ruin their day.

Lastly, I hope Eve makes it 20 years and beyond. If they opened up a new venue for a different group of people it would ensure that will happen. As its been pointed out here in this thread, it will never happen so I hope at the very least, you the players realize that its entirely possible you can fk with people so much that you ruin your game by driving people that could become very loyal customers away; and thats bad for anyone who cares about the game... new and old.

@Nariya Kentaya All the more reason to protect your gem of a game and make sure there are enough new players to fund it years into the future. If you dont grow and evolve you die. Thats life.
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#47 - 2012-03-05 23:10:58 UTC  |  Edited by: mxzf
Alyssa Cristole wrote:
They were put in because it was part of the starter mission which told me to do so, and they give them in the starter missions because thats the only way someone who is just starting off in a game thats been running for 10 years can actually train skills quick enough to be able to survive.


Wrong. They're in the tutorial so you're not sitting around 6 months later saying "What's an implant?". Also, your "keeping up with the older players" is completely invalid in Eve. A new player can hold their own if they put forth the effort to do so, there's no 'end game' to work towards, there's just "What do I feel like doing next".

Alyssa Cristole wrote:
Its so obvious there is a serous disconnect between old players and new ones.

This 'disconnect' is the older players knowing how Eve works and newer players thinking it's just like any other MMO. It's a difference of experience and knowing that Eve is different from all the other MMOs out there.

Alyssa Cristole wrote:
And FYI I don't want a fking hand out. You could offer me 1 bil isk right now and I would turn it down because I think thats totally BS. Just like I can't stand people who buy "gold" with real world money. I don't want a hand out, I want to be left alone for a few weeks and learn the damn game w/o having to deal with the nonsense. After that, its on. Is that so much to ask? You know why amamake is so dangerous? Because it borders noobvill and you old time players dont like to take risks so you pk new players instead.


And, yes, asking to be left along for a while is too much to ask. Because the next thing noobs would be asking to be left alone for longer, and then longer, and then "no one should ever be able to attack me without my permission". This is completely against the whole philosophy of Eve.

And Amamake doesn't border noob systems at all, it's atleast half a dozen jumps betwen Amamake and the nearest noob system I can think of. There isn't a "noobzone" in Eve, there's your starting system with a bare minimum of "strongly discouraged" things and then you're in the real world.

Eve is a harsh and cruel world, just like the real one. There was no force field around your crib protecting you from a random psycho coming in and killing you and I hurt myself enough times as a small child to learn what was and wasn't dangerous. In that respect you're still a child in Eve, there's nothing protecting you from getting hurt, you have to learn to survive in the big bad world just like the rest of us did, that's how life works.
Serge Bastana
GWA Corp
#48 - 2012-03-05 23:12:52 UTC
Alyssa Cristole wrote:


If they opened up a new venue for a different break of people it would ensure that will happen. As its been pointed out here in this thread, it will never happen so I hope at the very least, you the players realize that its entirely possible you can fk with people so much that you ruin your game by driving people that could become very loyal customers away; and thats bad for anyone who cares about the game... new and old.


Different break of people. Who would they be exactly? Would they only be loyal customers if they could be 'left alone', never to be 'griefed' by the nasty pvp types and never have to risk anything.

I think I can imagine the type of players that you see this 'new server' idea being aimed at.

WoW holds your hand until end game, and gives you a cookie whether you win or lose. EVE not only takes your cookie, but laughs at you for bringing one in the first place...

Alyssa Cristole
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#49 - 2012-03-05 23:18:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Alyssa Cristole
mxzf wrote:
Alyssa Cristole wrote:
They were put in because it was part of the starter mission which told me to do so, and they give them in the starter missions because thats the only way someone who is just starting off in a game thats been running for 10 years can actually train skills quick enough to be able to survive.


Wrong. They're in the tutorial so you're not sitting around 6 months later saying "What's an implant?". Also, your "keeping up with the older players" is completely invalid in Eve. A new player can hold their own if they put forth the effort to do so, there's no 'end game' to work towards, there's just "What do I feel like doing next".

Alyssa Cristole wrote:
Its so obvious there is a serous disconnect between old players and new ones.

This 'disconnect' is the older players knowing how Eve works and newer players thinking it's just like any other MMO. It's a difference of experience and knowing that Eve is different from all the other MMOs out there.

Alyssa Cristole wrote:
And FYI I don't want a fking hand out. You could offer me 1 bil isk right now and I would turn it down because I think thats totally BS. Just like I can't stand people who buy "gold" with real world money. I don't want a hand out, I want to be left alone for a few weeks and learn the damn game w/o having to deal with the nonsense. After that, its on. Is that so much to ask? You know why amamake is so dangerous? Because it borders noobvill and you old time players dont like to take risks so you pk new players instead.


And, yes, asking to be left along for a while is too much to ask. Because the next thing noobs would be asking to be left alone for longer, and then longer, and then "no one should ever be able to attack me without my permission". This is completely against the whole philosophy of Eve.

And Amamake doesn't border noob systems at all, it's atleast half a dozen jumps betwen Amamake and the nearest noob system I can think of. There isn't a "noobzone" in Eve, there's your starting system with a bare minimum of "strongly discouraged" things and then you're in the real world.

Eve is a harsh and cruel world, just like the real one. There was no force field around your crib protecting you from a random psycho coming in and killing you and I hurt myself enough times as a small child to learn what was and wasn't dangerous. In that respect you're still a child in Eve, there's nothing protecting you from getting hurt, you have to learn to survive in the big bad world just like the rest of us did, that's how life works.


Bullshit man, there was a forcefield protecting you, its called the fact that in the real world people die. Dead, no rez. In the real world you come into my house you get the barrel of a legally owned shortened Mossberg 12g right up your ass. No joke, or interwebs bragging. Perm death is the ultimate deterrent. This game is a perfect example at why humans should not live forever, at how fked up a species we really are, and what would happen if there was no law in our civilization. Don't even think about comparing this to the real world because in the real world bernie madoff goes to jail. In Eve, Bad Bobby walks away laughing.

Edit: How many people do you think would risk what they do if it were so hardcore that when they died they made a new character? You want to be leet? Delete your character and start over every time you get pod killed. We'll see how much risk you take then. That's how to make this mimic the "real world" you are talking about.
Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#50 - 2012-03-05 23:27:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Nariya Kentaya
Alyssa Cristole wrote:
mxzf wrote:
Alyssa Cristole wrote:
They were put in because it was part of the starter mission which told me to do so, and they give them in the starter missions because thats the only way someone who is just starting off in a game thats been running for 10 years can actually train skills quick enough to be able to survive.


Wrong. They're in the tutorial so you're not sitting around 6 months later saying "What's an implant?". Also, your "keeping up with the older players" is completely invalid in Eve. A new player can hold their own if they put forth the effort to do so, there's no 'end game' to work towards, there's just "What do I feel like doing next".

Alyssa Cristole wrote:
Its so obvious there is a serous disconnect between old players and new ones.

This 'disconnect' is the older players knowing how Eve works and newer players thinking it's just like any other MMO. It's a difference of experience and knowing that Eve is different from all the other MMOs out there.

Alyssa Cristole wrote:
And FYI I don't want a fking hand out. You could offer me 1 bil isk right now and I would turn it down because I think thats totally BS. Just like I can't stand people who buy "gold" with real world money. I don't want a hand out, I want to be left alone for a few weeks and learn the damn game w/o having to deal with the nonsense. After that, its on. Is that so much to ask? You know why amamake is so dangerous? Because it borders noobvill and you old time players dont like to take risks so you pk new players instead.


And, yes, asking to be left along for a while is too much to ask. Because the next thing noobs would be asking to be left alone for longer, and then longer, and then "no one should ever be able to attack me without my permission". This is completely against the whole philosophy of Eve.

And Amamake doesn't border noob systems at all, it's atleast half a dozen jumps betwen Amamake and the nearest noob system I can think of. There isn't a "noobzone" in Eve, there's your starting system with a bare minimum of "strongly discouraged" things and then you're in the real world.

Eve is a harsh and cruel world, just like the real one. There was no force field around your crib protecting you from a random psycho coming in and killing you and I hurt myself enough times as a small child to learn what was and wasn't dangerous. In that respect you're still a child in Eve, there's nothing protecting you from getting hurt, you have to learn to survive in the big bad world just like the rest of us did, that's how life works.


Bullshit man, there was a forcefield protecting you, its called the fact that in the real world people die. Dead, no rez. In the real world you come into my house you get the barrel of a legally owned shortened Mossberg 12g right up your ass. No joke, or interwebs bragging. Perm death is the ultimate deterrent. This game is a perfect example at why humans should not live forever, at how fked up a species we really are, and what would happen if there was no law in our civilization. Don't even think about comparing this to the real world because in the real world bernie madoff goes to jail and Bad Bobby walks away laughing.

Edit: How many people do you think would risk what they do if it were so hardcore that when they died they made a new character? You want to be leet? Delete your character when you die.

Then you should be glad that CCP has given you the quarter you have already gained, death is not permanent in Eve, meaning no "griefer" can utterly kill you forever, you can always die a few times then move on.

you just acknowledged that CCP ahs given you a benefit that already deviates from the cold and harsh reality by allowing respawns. DO NOT push your luck by asking for more, because new players get enough.

this game isnt even all that difficult for new players, from helping friends and other people who are new to the game, ive discovered a apttern, the ONLY people who ahev trouble adjusting and adapting tot he way eve works, are ones that refuse to play by other people's rules in anything else, theya re the same type of players who go to play kcikball with the other kids on the playground and then DEMAND they change the rules to dodgeball ebcause they like dodgeball better.

eve would actually be better off WITHOUT the risk-averse, ist the high-population of risk-averse carebears that give new players the impression that high-sec SHOUDL be safe when it SHOULD NOT, and the less "carebears" the better, as it gives new players a more true-to-eve first impression.

and before you go calling em anything, this character (my main) is an industrialist through and through, but i DO enjoy pvp and i DO understand that the only way to get ahead in eve is by fighting, whetehr marketeering or privateering, the only way to gain something in eve is by taking it form someone else.
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#51 - 2012-03-05 23:28:26 UTC
Alyssa Cristole wrote:
Hun, you made my point. You started playing Eve a long time ago. Even if you quit, your still a vet. In fact I would say you are even more of a vet then people who have been playing for the past few years straight because you started in a time when new players were offered nothing and given no handouts. For you to transition back into the game it was a lot easier then someone just starting out dealing with a very well established player economy. I am not saying its not impossible, and I am not asking for it to be dumbed down. My OP was in fact not intended to try and break your game. For example, I have Verizon for my Cell. Verizon are a bunch of money grubbing bastrds, but I still want them to do well; if they do well then my service improves because they have the funds to expand. There is a market for people who don't want to play as hardcore as others in this game and its too bad they will never experience how amazing it is because they cant stomach the bullsht.

Emoleas Ozran: Give this guy a PM in game and see if he'll take a minute to message you back about the new player experience :) I am a vet, I'm aware of that, that's why I also pointed out Emoleas. He's literally a late 2011 toon, and he's well on track to becoming richer than me.

The point is both Emo and me would have, in your multi-shard universe, had no one to sell our stuff too. Both of us make ISK selling nanoribbons and deadspace loot. One is involved in T3 production, the other is used on shiny ships. The market for T3s (especially since the tengu doctrines, yaaaaay, price spike!) and deadspace gear is driven by PvP losses.

On a server populated by PvE characters, like your proposed server (and it WOULD be populated by PvE characters), there would be no market. Not to mention the fact that there would be half the number of people online (probably less, because let's face it most players wouldn't move.)

Alyssa Cristole wrote:
Do you really think I would still be here arguing this if I could give a ratsass? I guess this is the interwebs so I will give you the benefit of the doubt on that one because there are plenty of trolls who love to fk with people, but thats not me. I am old enough to be at the point in life where I don't argue sht I don't care about. If I didn't like the game I would not bother with wasting my day replying. I happen to be the worst communicator on the planet, so please forgive me if I have not made my point clear. All I am trying to get at is there is tough love and then there is bullshit. There is trial by fire, and then there is fking with people just to ruin their day.

To be honest, I will usually **** with people just to ruin their day. I fall into that group, but I have been known to let people go because they've been friendly back in local. I've also been known to send noobs a few hundred million after I killed their badly fitted PvE battle cruisers, just because they've private convo'd me, and once they stopped raging sounded like nice guys.

In fact we actually had a few members in rage alliance that joined after we killed them Lol But basically, in Eve everyone will always be presented as being absolute douche bags, and given the chance we will be. But if you chat to people, remain calm and reasonable, and try and get into a good corp then eventually you will find people that will help you.

Not everyone in Eve is mean, we just like to look like we are in case some Wow players are watching and considering swapping games Cool

Alyssa Cristole wrote:
Lastly, I hope Eve makes it 20 years and beyond. If they opened up a new venue for a different group of people it would ensure that will happen. As its been pointed out here in this thread, it will never happen so I hope at the very least, you the players realize that its entirely possible you can fk with people so much that you ruin your game by driving people that could become very loyal customers away; and thats bad for anyone who cares about the game... new and old.

I hope it lasts 20 years too :)

You never know, maybe if it lasts long enough it'll get a big enough subscription base that they won't be able to run it on a single shard universe. I'd hate not being able to interact with everyone on the forums in game, but mehhhh. Having a fresh Eve would be interesting Lol

Actually I wonder if there are limitations on the number of people that could realistically play simultaneously, or if they could just continue adding/upgrading/reinforcing nodes? Hmm... Shocked

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]

Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#52 - 2012-03-05 23:32:03 UTC
Simi Kusoni wrote:


Actually I wonder if there are limitations on the number of people that could realistically play simultaneously, or if they could just continue adding/upgrading/reinforcing nodes? Hmm... Shocked

its CCP, im sure that by the time eve's servers get tot he breaking point, they will McGuyver something to hold it all together, hopefully by that point though, they would be making enough money that they could just buy a truckload of super-servers and start their own server-farm to support eve.

who knows, maybe one-day eve will be so big it encompasses 90% of the data traversing the internet, would be a glorious day for eve. dreamers can dream, eh?
Alyssa Cristole
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#53 - 2012-03-06 00:25:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Alyssa Cristole
@Simi Kusoni Wow, see you're not as much of a prick as you want to try and make yourself out to be after all. If you want to keep trying, you should not makes posts like this that actually make you out to sound like a decent human being just out to have some fun ; )


Nariya Kentaya wrote:
Simi Kusoni wrote:


Actually I wonder if there are limitations on the number of people that could realistically play simultaneously, or if they could just continue adding/upgrading/reinforcing nodes? Hmm... Shocked

its CCP, im sure that by the time eve's servers get tot he breaking point, they will McGuyver something to hold it all together, hopefully by that point though, they would be making enough money that they could just buy a truckload of super-servers and start their own server-farm to support eve.

who knows, maybe one-day eve will be so big it encompasses 90% of the data traversing the internet, would be a glorious day for eve. dreamers can dream, eh?



I have changed careers several times in my life but a long time ago I did IT server work. The main issue I see Eve having is that its so open and so vast, that they can't predict when and where there is going to be a massive flood of people. They can try and compensate with adaptive multitasking that switches processor load to those severs that are actively hosting the region that has the flood of players, but the problem is that gets you so far and for so long. It literally turns into the straw that breaks the camels back. I can only assume this is why they do so many stress tests and why the game has downtime every day instead of once a week like other (larger populated) games. Building a bigger cluster will help but there is only so much you can do with current technology.

I really want to wrap this thread up if its ok with everyone?



One last thing. @ Nariya Kentaya about carebears.

You are right, I am a carebear. Talk is cheep on the internet and those talking are usually the ones who are full of sh*t. Those who aren't are usually smart enough not to brag or sell their background so cheaply. In my case, most of my background I can't sell it even if I wanted to.

I left that line of work when my time was up and I now am on ambulance. At least I now do good things for people who can't help themselves. Yes, this bleeds over into my online gaming "personality". Trust me, I would love to be a hardcore prick, but its no longer in my nature. You want to experience one of my easier jobs? Go work on an ambulance and do chest compressions on a dead 3 year old burn victim as their skin peels off in your hands, bring them back just to have some arrogant prick doctor pull your ET tube because they want to play hero, only to watch the kid die of asphyxiation. You want to know what leet is? Get up the next day and do it all over again.

One thing most a-holes on the internet don't seem to get from their safe, cushy basement couch is that the real world is nothing like what they perceive it to be. Most of you probably have not had that iron curtain pulled back and see whats on the other side. Trust me its not pretty.

Maybe this is not the game for me, but it will be a warm day in the 9th circle of hell before I will let bastrds on the internet get to me. The only person who will do that is myself and if it hasn't happened yet its not going to happen. If I quit its on my own terms.

How about we make a deal and you try and remember people (carebears like myself) are sometimes that way because of life experiences and I will try to remember that sometimes it happens to work in reverse.

Anyway, this is really the end of my discussion in this thread as I have already gotten way to personal for my comfort on a public forum.

I mean this, thank you for your replies. Even the a-hole ones. I guess thats a carebear response in itself. Cest la Vie.
Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#54 - 2012-03-06 00:32:52 UTC
Alyssa Cristole wrote:
@Simi Kusoni Wow, see you're not as much of a prick as you want to try and make yourself out to be after all. If you want to keep trying, you should not makes posts like this that actually make you out to sound like a decent human being just out to have some fun ; )


Nariya Kentaya wrote:
Simi Kusoni wrote:


Actually I wonder if there are limitations on the number of people that could realistically play simultaneously, or if they could just continue adding/upgrading/reinforcing nodes? Hmm... Shocked

its CCP, im sure that by the time eve's servers get tot he breaking point, they will McGuyver something to hold it all together, hopefully by that point though, they would be making enough money that they could just buy a truckload of super-servers and start their own server-farm to support eve.

who knows, maybe one-day eve will be so big it encompasses 90% of the data traversing the internet, would be a glorious day for eve. dreamers can dream, eh?



I have changed careers several times in my life but a long time ago I did IT server work. The main issue I see Eve having is that its so open and so vast, that they can't predict when and where there is going to be a massive flood of people. They can try and compensate with adaptive multitasking that switches processor load to those severs that are actively hosting the region that has the flood of players, but the problem is that gets you so far and for so long. It literally turns into the straw that breaks the camels back. I can only assume this is why they do so many stress tests and why the game has downtime every day instead of once a week like other (larger populated) games. Building a bigger cluster will help but there is only so much you can do with current technology.

I really want to wrap this thread up if its ok with everyone?



One last thing. @ Nariya Kentaya about carebears.

You are right, I am a carebear. Talk is cheep on the internet and those talking are usually the ones who are full of sh*t. Those who aren't are usually smart enough not to brag or sell their background so cheaply. In my case, most of my background I can't sell it even if I wanted to.

I left that line of work when my time was up and I now am on ambulance. At least I now do good things for people who can't help themselves. Yes, this bleeds over into my online gaming "personality". Trust me, I would love to be a hardcore prick, but its no longer in my nature. You want to experience one of my easier jobs? Go work on an ambulance and do chest compressions on a dead 3 year old burn victim as their skin peels off in your hands, bring them back just to have some arrogant prick doctor pull your ET tube because they want to play hero, only to watch the kid die of asphyxiation. You want to know what leet is? Get up the next day and do it all over again.

One thing most a-holes on the internet don't seem to get from their safe, cushy basement couch is that the real world is nothing like what they perceive it to be. Most of you probably have not had that iron curtain pulled back and see whats on the other side. Trust me its not pretty.

Maybe this is not the game for me, but it will be a warm day in the 9th circle of hell before I will let bastrds on the internet get to me. The only person who will do that is myself and if it hasn't happened yet its not going to happen. If I quit its on my own terms.

How about we make a deal and you try and remember people (carebears like myself) are sometimes that way because of life experiences and I will try to remember that sometimes it happens to work in reverse.

Anyway, this is really the end of my discussion in this thread as I have already gotten way to personal for my comfort on a public forum.

I mean this, thank you for your replies. Even the a-hole ones. I guess thats a carebear response in itself. Cest la Vie.

im not attacking your way of play, and if i sounde dlike it i am dreadfully sorry.
im merely sayingt hat you want to play the way YOU want with no one else being abel to effect you, in a way that would not only hurt eve (enhanced cost for servers on CCPS part) but the players who want to play PvP because you are literally KILLINg there ability to play as 90% of the players would leave for the new server.
so yes, lets agree, so long as you allow me to play the way i want, you can play the way you want, WITHIN the given parameters of eve and its mechanics.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
Infinite Pew
#55 - 2012-03-06 00:37:44 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
*facepalms*

Nariya Kentaya Alyssa Cristole... you are proposing an idea just as much to us as you are to CCP. Since you are proposing such sweeping changes, you need to convince everyone that your idea is to the benefit of EVE and does not break it (neither in terms of gameplay or principle-wise).
Just because you feel the idea is a "no-brainer" it doesn't mean that the rest of us feel the same way.

From where I stand...

The "market" argument: Your idea would effectively "break" the balance that currently exists.
Miners supply the raw materials for producing things... industrialists refine the raw materials and produce things... traders and haulers supply said products... PvPers destroy said "products" and protect their own... and we come full circle.
If you take out the PvPers from the equation, nothing gets destroyed and so the traders and haulers have no one to supply (and people who do "PvE-only" stuff rarely lose ships)... with no traders and haulers buying/moving stuff industrialists have no reason to buy ore and build stuff... with no one buying ore then miners have no reason to mine.
This is one of the biggest reasons why so many other virtual economies are FUBAR. Nothing gets "destroyed" and eventually the same equipment becomes so over-farmed and abundant that it effectively becomes worthless... even more so when newer, more powerful, equipment becomes available.

The "marketing" argument: CCP has marketed EVE as a single shard universe... where any action you take affects everyone else for better or worse and the same can be done back to you. Beyond that... the game's rules are "flexible" enough that things can go either way depending on the creativity and abilities of each person.
And this marketing campaign has been going on for YEARS. I can only guess as to how much money has been spent on it. This implies that CCP LIKES being seen as a world of war, destruction, and scamming.
Beyond that... appealing to a niche market that no other game currently appeals to (not since Ultima Online before they "split" the worlds) is actually a VERY smart business move in an industry that is often known for its volatility (because everyone is more or less copying each other with their own "little" spin on it).

The "principle" argument: EVE is not for everyone. The DEVs have said it, the players have echoed it. And in a way... CCP sticking to the "principles of EVE" (e.g. "greater risk, greater reward" and "cold, harsh, and unforgiving" and "everything affects everyone, for better or worse" and "you can never be 100% safe anywhere") have become a sort of "unofficial marketing gimmick" that attracts people who are tired of the "same old, same old" and want something "more."
Now... will this get CCP 10 million subs like WoW? Hardly. But CCP seems hellbent of making a game that conforms to THEIR "vision" (see: "Wild West in Space")... and that is the reason why many of us stay and are so loyal.

edit: got the names mixed up.Oops
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#56 - 2012-03-06 00:59:35 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
Alyssa Cristole wrote:
Again, all of you are completely selfish and could care less about the finical earnings of the company that makes your game. By taking the suggestion I have written above you would not loose your game environment and CCP could expand to a larger group of people.

The financial earnings of CCP are not our concern. The philosophy of the game laid down when they made it almost 10 years ago is.

If you can't see why this is a bad idea, it's time for you to move on to something that fits your style of playing better. Like WoW, which you might even enjoy before you inevitably realize you're probably twice the age of anybody else playing that game.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Alyssa Cristole
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#57 - 2012-03-06 01:00:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Alyssa Cristole
ShahFluffers wrote:
*facepalms*

Nariya Kentaya... you are proposing an idea just as much to us as you are to CCP. Since you are proposing such sweeping changes, you need to convince everyone that your idea is to the benefit of EVE and does not break it (neither in terms of gameplay or principle-wise).
Just because you feel the idea is a "no-brainer" it doesn't mean that the rest of us feel the same way.

From where I stand...

.


Brilliant. As someone looking in from the outside, this is the best (and only) post in this thread that explains things in a way that actually supports your argument. And it makes total sense. Now if the hardcore PVP'ers could actually listen to reason like a carebear there might be a happy medium that works for both sides. That happy medium doesn't even have to be straight down the middle it can be 75% griefer and 25% carebear with everyone coexisting, trust me it will not cause Eve Armageddon. I just hope the "other side" will at least try and listen to a little reason too instead of posting threads like "lets go blow up HighSec because these bitc*s aren't cool enough to play our game."

Everyone can still lie, cheat, and murder each other with out being an absolute cksucker about it every time they do it. Tone it back just a little bit, murder their ass and move on with it instead of doing it and then shi*ting on their corpse just to be a tool. You do that, you might draw in the players like myself who are carebears, but carebears who accept the world is not a pretty place. Seriously, a big fu new player is not being leet, badass or anything else other then just a prick. For reference I am not talking about my PK incident here, just the fact most Eve players seem to sh*t on new players as a second hobby. There is a happy medium but neither side has yet to find it. Old players are worried this will turn into Wow and a lot of new players get frustrated as it seems like you are trying to learn to walk while dodging rockets, which despite what someone else said, it is NOT real life realistic unless you live in the real life sandbox in the middle east.


Nariya Kentaya
"...As 90% of the players would leave for the new server"

If I wasn't a carebear I might actually run with this one. : ) /big hug! I <3 you! Kisses!


James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Alyssa Cristole wrote:
Again, all of you are completely selfish and could care less about the finical earnings of the company that makes your game. By taking the suggestion I have written above you would not loose your game environment and CCP could expand to a larger group of people.

The financial earnings of CCP are not our concern. The philosophy of the game laid down when they made it almost 10 years ago is.

If you can't see why this is a bad idea, it's time for you to move on to something that fits your style of playing better. Like WoW, which you might even enjoy before you inevitably realize you're probably twice the age of anybody else playing that game.


You sir are ignorant. [If you take that as an insult look up the REAL meaning of the word] How long have you been playing? Probably a lot longer then I have. This IS AN INVESTMENT of your MONEY and TIME. The financial decisions are as much the players business as the company. Why the fu*k am I going to start playing a game, paying real money and wasting my time if it will go out of business in a few months? NOTE I am NOT saying this is going to happen, only that it IS my concern when I am deciding whether to invest my time and money into the service. Thats right, this is a service. I give money and time and they provide a service. I expect my investment is going to go to move the game in the right direction, just like you do. We may differ on what direction that is but in both cases we have investments we want to protect.


EDIT:

Now in a completly unrelated to the above paragraph note; after some serious thought...

I would like to apologize for stereotyping all Eve players, and not just a select few. I would like to think some of you hardcore people can understand that a select few of you ARE actually as*holes that take it a little too far; just like a select few of the carebears exploit isk farming in HighSec and other game breaking BS. There are people who break the game on both sides and neither is 100% right. If people can actually agree on this notion, I am fairly sure both sides would benefit.
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#58 - 2012-03-06 01:27:01 UTC
Alyssa Cristole wrote:
Brilliant. As someone looking in from the outside, this is the best (and only) post in this thread that explains things in a way that actually supports your argument. And it makes total sense.

I thought this was what people have been saying since the first page? Lol I know Mxzf has said it a few times at least ^^

Alyssa Cristole wrote:
Now if the hardcore PVP'ers could actually listen to reason like a carebear there might be a happy medium that works for both sides. That happy medium doesn't even have to be straight down the middle it can be 75% griefer and 25% carebear with everyone coexisting, trust me it will not cause Eve Armageddon. I just hope the "other side" will at least try and listen to a little reason too instead of posting threads like "lets go blow up HighSec because these bitc*s aren't cool enough to play our game."

One terrible dirty little secret of Eve is... all the "hardcore PvP'ers"... are massive care bears.

Seriously, almost all of them. You should see how difficult it is prying people out of their havens to go on a roam and kill some stuff Smile PvE and PvP are irreversibly intertwined in Eve, very few players are "pure" to either philosophy, and most have done both heavily at some point in their Eve career.

When people hear a lot of us yelling that our respective sections of Eve should become more dangerous, it is often assumed we would benefit from it and that we're howwible howwible gankers. This isn't true, none of us would want to destroy PvE or make the game completely impossible because it wouldn't suit our own interests. We are care bears.

However one thing about Eve is that most of us are genuinely proud to be playing one of the most difficult MMOs out there, even if that means making it difficult for us too :)

I do happen to agree with you that high sec should be relatively safe (and low profit!) though, and it is for the most part. There are a few basic rules regarding carrying expensive goods in untanked haulers, but once you've learnt that lesson it's pretty risk free as long as you can avoid war dec griefers.

Alyssa Cristole wrote:
Everyone can still lie, cheat, and murder each other with out being an absolute ********** about it every time they do it. Tone it back just a little bit, murder their ass and move on with it instead of doing it and then shi*ting on their corpse just to be a tool. You do that, you might draw in the players like myself who are carebears, but carebears who accept the world is not a pretty place. Seriously, a big fu new player is not being leet, badass or anything else other then just a prick. For reference I am not talking about my PK incident here, just the fact most Eve players seem to sh*t on new players as a second hobby. There is a happy medium but neither side has yet to find it. old players are worried this will turn into Wow and a lot of new players get frustrated as it seems like you are trying to learn to walk while dodging rockets, which despite what someone else said, it is NOT real life realistic unless you live in the real life sandbox in the middle east. Kisses!

To be honest, in random encounters people in Eve will be dicks to almost everybody. Bump into a BC on a gate in low sec? Kill it. See a T3 killing a belt rat in null? Kill it. Someone asks for help in local? How do I convince them to give me their stuff?

That is just how Eve is Big smileBut, and this is the important part, if you join a corporation there is a pretty good chance you will find people that won't be massive dicks to you. Because you're in their corp, they'll probably even help. IMHO I see that as working as intended.

I can live with 99% of random encounters in Eve ending in me scamming someone, them scamming me or one of us blowing up as long as I have a random group of friends to chat about it with in a window that isn't local.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]

ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
Infinite Pew
#59 - 2012-03-06 01:32:10 UTC
I want to take a moment to thank Simi and Mxzf... you are both saying everything I want to say but can't (birthday hangover FTL).
Alyssa Cristole
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#60 - 2012-03-06 01:38:23 UTC
@Simi Kusoni

While you were typing that you probably missed my edit, but I brought up exactly what you were saying I just didn't want to double post. I also think isk farming in HighSec should be toned down a little and I have only been in the game four days now. I can see how it can be exploited.

Anyway, I really need to break out of this because at this point the thread has served its purpose. I don't want to sound arrogant and it has nothing to do with that, but this thread should almost be sticky'd because as a new player if I were to read this I would have a much better understand of things from both sides prospective. Most of the time things turn into flame wars before they are fully worked out and in this case it almost happened but was avoided. I actually learned a lot from the "discussion" (argument) and have a much better understanding of the game from a very different prospective. It was enlightening.

I really do need to bounce. If anyone else feels like they need to get the last word in, please do so at your leisure but understand I am not ignoring your reply because this was a drive by trolling, rather the conversation has been exhausted to the point where its benefit has been reached and the rest will only be down hill. I am backing out on a high note where things went full circle, at least in my eyes and I hope it was worth everyones time typing out their own side of the debate. lol Even if it was a little one sided : )