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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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RvR Expansion

Author
Alyssa Cristole
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#81 - 2012-03-06 15:52:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Alyssa Cristole
@ WoD Comments.

I happen to be waiting for WoD and am very excited for the game. An 18+ MMO with a dark fantasy theme? Sign me up. I only hope they do age verification. The other one I was very interested in is "The secret world" by Funcom. Their offline storybook game series "The Longest Journey" was brilliant. I am not a storybook guy but loved Dreamfall in particular. The story it told had depth and did not end all happy and fluffy. Its like the ending of Final Fantasy 13-2. I wont spoil it for those who may play, but the ending is not happy. That's life, sometimes you can try your hardest, have the best intentions and still fail. The good guys don't always win and you just have sit back and enjoy the ride knowing tomorrow you may get hit by a bus. I always tell people "Live every day like its your last; Live every day like your going to live forever." Basically be cautious with your decisions as you may have to live with them for a long time, yet have fun because you never know when life is going to end. We are fragile creatures.

@ DAoC My top three MMO's of all time [Out of the~30+ I have tried, including Indy ones]:

1) Ultima Online
2) Dark Age of Camelot
TBA - May be Eve. Still on the fence.

I had a very large part in Alpha and Beta testing Dark and Light. It COULD have been an amazing game but the dev's flew to high to quick and their wings caught fire. They had the best intentions and really wanted to make it work but ultimately the scope of the project was too big for a startup company. It would be like Eve trying to do everything they have done in the past 10 years, including what they plan to do with WIS all at once. Too much on your plate means you can't finish everything [If you plan on doing it well] in a reasonable amount of time. In their case they [admirably] refused to compromise and just trekked along slowly trying to make the best game before release till the money ran out and then were forced to released an unfinished game. It's too bad, but that's what happens when you don't plan ahead accordingly.

@Jint Hikaru "I hardly think a 6 day old player is qualified to make suggestions of this magnitude."

You are 100% correct. It took me till about page 3 of this thread to figure it out too. That doesn't change the fact that the game has an amazing RvR potential that doesn't seem to be being utilized. I could be wrong, but it seems to be because a lot of the players are so in love with what they have they are very scared of loosing it to change. I can understand that but you need to accept change, things can't stay the same way forever. Change can be good if its done right.

Please don't run with this next statement and turn this into a flame thread, but after reading a lot of this forum and the archive of the old ones, I have never seen a game where the player community has the developers so tightly by the balls. In some cases its gotten downright snooty. Elitist is the only word that describes it. Some people act like its a privilege to be a part of the Eve community; you realize this is a public game where anyone can sign up, right? In my case I have a very thick hide but In some older threads, it seems like some players take pride in driving people from the game. Just realize that sh*t doesn't fly in most games and if the company is smart they will start cracking down on the nonsense. Its not your place to police who plays and who doesn't. Some people act like its their sandbox and they will decide who gets to play in it. Its all about attitudes. That's one of the major issues i have had, and its probably the only one; peoples attitudes.

In some cases I understand and after a long discussion I have respect for them and understand their intent. In other cases they are just a bunch of pricks who have gotten away with being pricks so long they think they own the game. If you want to accuse anyone of being carebears, its probably the Devs. I am shocked they have not come and bit*h slapped some people by now. If I ran a game where my players were intentionally trying to run people out, someone would be getting pulled up by the ear and gotten a swift kick in the tail. I think some people have been playing so long they think they have a Mod/Dev tag next to their name, even though its not the case. I had a good discussion with some people in this thread. It got heated, but it was a good discussion and as someone who learned from that discussion, I think it was worth having. I am thankful that people took a lot of their time to reply. A few drive by pricks however are exactly what I am talking about when I talk about flat out being a "brats".

Anyway. So yes, my RvR topic was based off of some amazing times in DAoC that have not been had since, and when I saw the RvR part of Eve already in place but being ignored, I decided to start a topic on the subject. It was a discussion in an idea thread; nothing more or less. Some people need to calm down.
Velicitia
XS Tech
#82 - 2012-03-06 16:22:07 UTC
Alyssa Cristole wrote:
That doesn't change the fact that the game has an amazing RvR potential that doesn't seem to be being utilized.


it doesn't (at least in the way you've presented the idea), as shown in 4 pages of "this is a bad idea" comments

Quote:
I could be wrong, but it seems to be because a lot of the players are so in love with what they have they are very scared of loosing it to change. I can understand that but you need to accept change, things can't stay the same way forever. Change can be good if its done right.


you are, but not because older players are scared of change ... but rather that we're scared of LOSING this game. If EVE dies, we have nowhere to go -- there is no other game out there that is anywhere near what EVE is (yes, that other one ... perpetuum... does something similar, but they have a lot of the standard "protect the players from each other" mechanics)

Quote:
Just realize that sh*t doesn't fly in most games and if the company is smart they will start cracking down on the nonsense.


actually, they built EVE around the idea of leaving scamming and ganking and all the other stuff that isn't allowed in all those MMOs ... so, your usage of what "most other games" allow/deny doesn't help your cause at all.

Quote:
If I ran a game where my players were intentionally trying to run people out

While there are a lot of times where the first response is "get out" or "biomass yourself"; you'll find that more often that not, they're either the 37th "I want this because I think it's cool" thread on the same topic in the span of a month, or they're "EVE is too hard, it should be more like WOW" (note, paraphrasing).

Yeah, there are some complete wankers in the game ... but in general, most of the populace is quite welcoming to newbies (though, YMMV depending on what you're up to -- e.g. posting bad ideas will get flames)

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia

Plyn
Uncharted.
#83 - 2012-03-06 19:10:00 UTC
Why don't you just go design your own RvR spaceship game? It sounds like you want a complete break from what EVE is, anyways.

I doubt CCP could even raise copyright issues against your SpaceWoW, since the core fundamentals of gameplay would be so different.

It even sounds like you've spent a really long time considering all of the business end of things. Surely your huge experience in the MMO field, as a game designer, GM, dev, producer, executive, etc. makes you much more qualified to make these kind of statements than a company that has won so many god damned awards for this game I cant even be arsed to list them all http://community.eveonline.com/community/awards_reviews.asp

EVE is a fantastic game. Your idea sounds like one that I wouldn't even play a free trial of. But hey, since you've figured out the whole business model, how about you go get yourself a loan, hire some code monkeys, and churn out the next latest and greatest wow-clone! I'm sure you'll at least get a good handful of people to preorder. Oh, and since you think that money is the only thing anyone could possibly want, you can make the whole thing pay-to-win too.

It couldn't possibly be that the guys upstairs at CCP decided a long ass time ago that they wanted to make an internet spaceship game that was just ****ing awesome, even if it didn't gross more $$$$$$$ than some other game. Based on the link I posted above, it looks like they're doing a bloody good job.

10/10, btw
Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#84 - 2012-03-06 19:54:44 UTC
Plyn wrote:
Why don't you just go design your own RvR spaceship game? It sounds like you want a complete break from what EVE is, anyways.

I doubt CCP could even raise copyright issues against your SpaceWoW, since the core fundamentals of gameplay would be so different.

It even sounds like you've spent a really long time considering all of the business end of things. Surely your huge experience in the MMO field, as a game designer, GM, dev, producer, executive, etc. makes you much more qualified to make these kind of statements than a company that has won so many god damned awards for this game I cant even be arsed to list them all http://community.eveonline.com/community/awards_reviews.asp

EVE is a fantastic game. Your idea sounds like one that I wouldn't even play a free trial of. But hey, since you've figured out the whole business model, how about you go get yourself a loan, hire some code monkeys, and churn out the next latest and greatest wow-clone! I'm sure you'll at least get a good handful of people to preorder. Oh, and since you think that money is the only thing anyone could possibly want, you can make the whole thing pay-to-win too.

It couldn't possibly be that the guys upstairs at CCP decided a long ass time ago that they wanted to make an internet spaceship game that was just ****ing awesome, even if it didn't gross more $$$$$$$ than some other game. Based on the link I posted above, it looks like they're doing a bloody good job.

10/10, btw

ah yes, FINALLY someone links to awards page, now can we finally get this over with?
Eve has won AWARDS for being full of people violencing eachother on a daily basis, and until we stop winning awards, i see no reason to even LOOK at change
Xorv
Questionable Acquisitions
#85 - 2012-03-06 20:37:26 UTC
Alyssa Cristole wrote:
That doesn't change the fact that the game has an amazing RvR potential that doesn't seem to be being utilized. I could be wrong, but it seems to be because a lot of the players are so in love with what they have they are very scared of loosing it to change. I can understand that but you need to accept change, things can't stay the same way forever. Change can be good if its done right.


EVE's RVR at present is Faction Warfare, also arguably so to is Sov Null Sec, just that the "Realms" are player created and run. I'm very much in favor of expanding Faction vs Faction warfare (RvR) in Empire space, but not as a substitute for the existing Sandbox, but rather layered on top.
Alyssa Cristole
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#86 - 2012-03-07 18:05:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Alyssa Cristole
Xorv wrote:
Alyssa Cristole wrote:
That doesn't change the fact that the game has an amazing RvR potential that doesn't seem to be being utilized. I could be wrong, but it seems to be because a lot of the players are so in love with what they have they are very scared of loosing it to change. I can understand that but you need to accept change, things can't stay the same way forever. Change can be good if its done right.


EVE's RVR at present is Faction Warfare, also arguably so to is Sov Null Sec, just that the "Realms" are player created and run. I'm very much in favor of expanding Faction vs Faction warfare (RvR) in Empire space, but not as a substitute for the existing Sandbox, but rather layered on top.



The more I learn the game the more I understand why people are against the idea. An expansion however that added a little RVR could be a lot of fun. I think it would get a lot of HighSec carebears like myself out of 1.0 space and into PVP, in fact I can only see the amount of PVP increasing. That is the idea of RVR after all. I understand factional war with corps but having a PVP spot where people could go basically with pick up groups and get into co-op PVP would only increase the amount of Shi* getting blown up... and that's what everyone wants right? More people to shoot more stuff to blow up?

I am not going to modify the original post for historical sake but as you said if it was incorporated into the exciting server it would be a lot fun.

Edit: Note I am not saying everywhere, at all times. Just a certain section of space or something.
Rico Minali
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#87 - 2012-03-07 18:12:36 UTC
This is not a flame.

When you looked at Eve Online and decided you would like to play it, you came into teh game know ing exactly how it would all work, no doubt the total freedom appealed to you, the dream of being able to do what you wanted.

Now you decide you dont like that total freedom because it doesnt suit your playing style, well to be honest then Eve isnt for you. Most of us play Eve online exactly for its freedom and danger, the risk that you are not safe anywhere, ever.

The idea that they make a 'safe' Eve server for people who dont want risk is to be blunt ridiculous.

Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.

Alyssa Cristole
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#88 - 2012-03-07 18:18:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Alyssa Cristole
Rico Minali wrote:
This is not a flame.

When you looked at Eve Online and decided you would like to play it, you came into teh game know ing exactly how it would all work, no doubt the total freedom appealed to you, the dream of being able to do what you wanted.

Now you decide you dont like that total freedom because it doesnt suit your playing style, well to be honest then Eve isnt for you. Most of us play Eve online exactly for its freedom and danger, the risk that you are not safe anywhere, ever.

The idea that they make a 'safe' Eve server for people who dont want risk is to be blunt ridiculous.


I think after page 3 we came to the conclusion it was a bad idea and moved on. I guess I will have to modify that post after all if people are going to drive by post w/o reading the thread.

Edit and by "we" I mean "I" since I was the only one making the argument. Lol

Again the discussion has shifted to the RVR aspect of the game w/o breaking it, not adding separate servers, not toning anything down, or any other changes. Your Eve is safe. Ok?
Velicitia
XS Tech
#89 - 2012-03-07 19:22:32 UTC
Alyssa Cristole wrote:

Again the discussion has shifted to the RVR aspect of the game w/o breaking it, not adding separate servers, not toning anything down, or any other changes. Your OUR Eve is safe. Ok?


Just because you had a terribad idea doesn't make EVE any less yours too ... I mean, you do actually play the game, right?

dust yourself off, get back to whatever it is you do, and have fun doing it...

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia