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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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RvR Expansion

Author
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#21 - 2012-03-05 18:59:48 UTC
It's been posted before, this idea has come up a few times (not that you have bothered to search, or even read all the responses in your own thread). The market system requires both producers (people doing PvE and mining to get/make modules and ships) and consumers (PvPers using said resources). If you try to split the population, you'll end up hurting both sides of the economy. Then Eve as a whole dies because the entire system falls apart (or, realistically, the more experienced players all stay on the PvP server and all the carebears go to the PvE server and then start whining about how they can't make any ISK because there's no one to sell anything to).

I remember you now. You posted that thread in New Players complaining about having been killed in lowsec after you APed there and died to a smarty BS. You really should learn about Eve as a whole before you try to suggest drastically changing the game because you got butthurt about dieing because you made a mistake and died for it. Eve isn't a soft and cuddly place, it's a place for people who like a cruel and harsh universe where they fight for their survival. If you don't enjoy it, Eve might not be for you, no one is forcing you to subscribe against your will.

And, @Velicitia, my wallet says that I enjoy having plenty of ISK for buying whatever I feel like and that I know how to play the game for fun and make ISK while doing it :p
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#22 - 2012-03-05 19:25:12 UTC
For 200m ISK I will support the OPs terrible, terrible idea.

I'm also a psychology research graduate, doing a study on trust in online games. Send me any amount of ISK and I will send double back, sending large amounts would really help me compile my dataset faster, thank you!

Needless to say, as such an upstanding member of the community, I am completely against this "scamming" culture that has arisen in Eve. Boy do I deep down wish Eve was multi-shard wow clone.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]

Velicitia
XS Tech
#23 - 2012-03-05 19:38:47 UTC
Alyssa Cristole wrote:
Velicitia wrote:
mxzf wrote:
I might not revel in the discordian chaos like some people do,


Your wallet (just like mine) probably says otherwise Big smile



Is your wallet $150,000,000?

If I offered you a choice of (300,000 x $15) $4,500,000 a month or (10 mil x $15) $150,000,000 a month which would you choose? From a business prospective, which is better?



I find it laughable that not one of you can actually come up with a reason why this would ruin your game unless you accept the fact that the majority of the people don't like things how they are and only tolerate it because there is no other choice. Not one reply to this thread has actually made a (valid) counter argument.


You're ********.

mxzf states he's (effectively) a PvE guy who doesn't revel in the chaos like some people in eve do.
Based on this information, as well as the corp he is in, I'm assuming that he's some form of miner/industrialist/marketeer (or a combination thereof), and as such profits off the people who *do* revel in creating said chaos.

As for making 4.5 mil a month vs 15 mil ... if I did the same thing CCP did, and effectively got together with friends, built a no-holds-barred game that bucks the trend of "on rails" MMOs (see: nearly every other MMO), and watched it have a slow, steady rise to excellence and eventually go cross-platform and take on juggernauts on THAT platform too... I sure as hell wouldn't be complaining about "only" 4,5 million per month.

Sure, 10m (or, hell, even 1m) subs would be nice -- but NOT at the expense of my core dreams/ideals for the MMO. In the case of CCP, one of those ideals is "one big world, where everything affects everyone".

Quote:

Again, all of you are completely selfish and could care less about the finical earnings of the company that makes your game. By taking the suggestion I have written above you would not loose your game environment and CCP could expand to a larger group of people.


Fine, let's say they did have a secondary server. You've played there for 6-10 months, gotten the biggest shiny ship you can, and have rescued the damsel 250 thousand times. What's left for you to do?



"A house divided against itself cannot stand"
- Abraham Lincoln, 16/06/1858

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia

Velicitia
XS Tech
#24 - 2012-03-05 19:41:03 UTC
Simi Kusoni wrote:
For 200m ISK I will support the OPs terrible, terrible idea.

I'm also a psychology research graduate, doing a study on trust in online games. Send me any amount of ISK and I will send double back, sending large amounts would really help me compile my dataset faster, thank you!

Needless to say, as such an upstanding member of the community, I am completely against this "scamming" culture that has arisen in Eve. Boy do I deep down wish Eve was multi-shard wow clone.


On the upside of it being multi-sharded, BoB probably wouldn't need to keep re-taking DelveCool

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia

mxzf
Shovel Bros
#25 - 2012-03-05 19:48:22 UTC
Actually, I started out a miner (and still have all the skills up through a Hulk or boosting Orca and invention) and most of my IRL friends that play are industrials, but I make most of my ISK exploring, I got bored of mining, lol. The rest of your post is spot on though. The OP assumes that CCP is in it for nothing but the money, when they've shown many times that they're really more dedicated to making it an amazing and unique game, just so long as the bills and salary get paid.
killorbekilled TBE
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2012-03-05 19:49:30 UTC
when industrialists are creating ships and pvpers are buying them to get blown up then eve is working as intended

con-struction vs de-struction

supply vs demand

cry babys vs cool people

paste this in your bio so you dont forget 'OP'

:)

Velicitia
XS Tech
#27 - 2012-03-05 19:53:39 UTC
mxzf wrote:
Actually, I started out a miner (and still have all the skills up through a Hulk or boosting Orca and invention) and most of my IRL friends that play are industrials, but I make most of my ISK exploring, I got bored of mining, lol. The rest of your post is spot on though. The OP assumes that CCP is in it for nothing but the money, when they've shown many times that they're really more dedicated to making it an amazing and unique game, just so long as the bills and salary get paid.


Yeah, same here ... but instead of exploration, I moved heavily into manufacturing from mining.

either way, make bank off the guys who blow each other up Bear

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia

Alyssa Cristole
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#28 - 2012-03-05 20:22:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Alyssa Cristole
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
That was a really long OP for something I could tell you "isn't going to happen" just from the title of the thread. It really isn't going to happen. CCP has always had the one server (special exception to our special friends in special China) and for them to make another one at this juncture would be rediculous. Not to mention I cannot think of a single person who would want to start over on another system for any reason. You want RvR? Go join RvB and do Faction Warfare.

In short... "isn't going to happen".
'

You are right, its not going to happen. Another forum member has a signature that sums it up perfectly:

Eve Residents: 5% Wormholes, 8% LowSec, 20% NullSec, 67% HighSec
CSM 6: 100% NullSec Residents


@ The person who says I did not search the forums. Do a search for "RvR" or "Realm VS Realm" and you will find... Nothing. I did that search first. Feel free to do it yourself and post your results.


We'll let the numbers do the talking. In three years I will be back. If I am wrong I will be the first to admit it; unlike most people here I can actually see things form different perspectives. As for CCP and their attitude towards their game; they are probably one of the best in the industry. No other MMO is as open with its customers. They provide subscription information, dev blogs, and are very open with the players. This is one of the reasons the game is great. I never once said I have a problem with Eve itself, only the a-hole players. Again, this game would be hands down one of the best on the market and possibly ever created (Ultima Online still takes the cake) if it were not for the players. My opinion is shared by many people who try the game. My suggestion only served to offer an opportunity for those other people who feel the same way to enjoy the game w/o dealing with the BS. As for numbers and profit, I am still not sure why not a single one of you can comprehend that a more profitable CCP is a good thing and not to be feared. I also still have yet to get one reply that actually explains why having a bad thing. If you say it won't work then why not let the subscriptions and where people choose to play do the talking, again it would not effect your current server one bit unless your players are lass happy then you claim they are with how things are being done.

I don't have time to argue with fanboys who can't see the whole picture. This topic was meant for discussion and most of you are acting like 10 year olds defending your PS3 VS Xbox 360. Vertisce Soritenshi and Mxzf are the only ones who actually made any worthwhile statements, even if I don't agree they are right my suggestion would ruin the game. The rest of you did nothing but flame. Got to love stupidass internet fanboys who cant actually have a adult discussion. Only two of you even attempted to try and answer anything other then a flame which just goes to show you ARE worried that adding a new server would ruin your griefer experience.

Have fun playing with yourselves. I am out.
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#29 - 2012-03-05 20:27:01 UTC
One down, 600,000 to go Cool

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]

Alyssa Cristole
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#30 - 2012-03-05 20:35:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Alyssa Cristole
Simi Kusoni wrote:
One down, 600,000 to go Cool


Yep, only 600,000 to go before the games 10,000 actual douchebags are left playing with themselves. This is the only game that has a community of core players that WANT it to implode. You are so "leet" you can't wait till no one is left to play with. Stupid ignorance and total arrogance.

Oh and BTW 600,000 is a joke. US/EU AND China combined is less the 450,000. Edit* And its only half that number when you combine isk farmers and alt accounts.



MMO Data.net - Subscriptions : 150k - 1m

http://users.telenet.be/mmodata/Charts/Subs-2.png


Yep in a few years it will be empty, I agree with you on that one. Look at the growth over the past two years. None.
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#31 - 2012-03-05 20:41:32 UTC
Actually growth was steady until WiS, Eve also has brilliant player retention, far better than even wows. If you've been playing eve >6 months, you are very unlikely to leave. Ever.

Growth is steady, and the player base sticks around, because it is a niche game that over an entire decade has rarely compromised its ideals. Again though, its a niche game, apparently its not your style. That's fine, I think wow released something involving pandas recently btw, go knock yourself out.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]

Tidurious
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#32 - 2012-03-05 20:47:09 UTC
This will never happen, and would destroy one of the fundamentals of EVE as we know it.

OP, you ought to be ashamed of yourself. Suicide booth is that way, get scooting on over there.
Alyssa Cristole
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#33 - 2012-03-05 20:47:11 UTC
Simi Kusoni wrote:
Actually growth was steady until WiS, Eve also has brilliant player retention, far better than even wows. If you've been playing eve >6 months, you are very unlikely to leave. Ever.

Growth is steady, and the player base sticks around, because it is a niche game that over an entire decade has rarely compromised its ideals. Again though, its a niche game, apparently its not your style. That's fine, I think wow released something involving pandas recently btw, go knock yourself out.



Apparently like some people here you cant read. See the chart? Its current. There is less players now then Jan 2011. In the past year growth has gotten stagnant.

I don't play Wow BTW, never have and never will. Not my thing.
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#34 - 2012-03-05 20:59:40 UTC
Alyssa Cristole wrote:
Simi Kusoni wrote:
Actually growth was steady until WiS, Eve also has brilliant player retention, far better than even wows. If you've been playing eve >6 months, you are very unlikely to leave. Ever.

Growth is steady, and the player base sticks around, because it is a niche game that over an entire decade has rarely compromised its ideals. Again though, its a niche game, apparently its not your style. That's fine, I think wow released something involving pandas recently btw, go knock yourself out.



Apparently like some people here you cant read. See the chart? Its current. There is less players now then Jan 2011. In the past year growth has gotten stagnant.

I don't play Wow BTW, never have and never will. Not my thing.

Are we even looking at the same chart? Or playing the same game? As I said, growth was steady until the WiS crap, then it dropped, now its steadily rising again. Guessing you haven't really been paying attention to community news etc.

Also, just look at that graph. Some games literally just have a 3 month spike then die, NO game on there has the decade long steady growth of Eve. The only blips in Eve's timeline correspond quite nicely with bad design decisions on CCP's part, and the corresponding community blow back.

Fortunately CCP has a history of listening to its customers and fixing Eve when they mess up, and even now the subscription numbers appear to be climbing again. No wonder you hate Eve so much if you can't read a graph.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]

Velicitia
XS Tech
#35 - 2012-03-05 21:12:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Velicitia
Alyssa Cristole wrote:
Simi Kusoni wrote:
Actually growth was steady until WiS, Eve also has brilliant player retention, far better than even wows. If you've been playing eve >6 months, you are very unlikely to leave. Ever.

Growth is steady, and the player base sticks around, because it is a niche game that over an entire decade has rarely compromised its ideals. Again though, its a niche game, apparently its not your style. That's fine, I think wow released something involving pandas recently btw, go knock yourself out.



Apparently like some people here you cant read. See the chart? Its current. There is less players now then Jan 2011. In the past year growth has gotten stagnant.

I don't play Wow BTW, never have and never will. Not my thing.



people quit (or at least killed alts) over Incarna. Subs finally ran out.

Personally, I could unsub today, and STILL have an active subscription in July/August... not that I will

edit -- just re-looked at the data.

Jan 2011 hit just about 350k people, with a peak of about 375k around June '11. It then dropped back to around 350k for the beginning of 2012. We're actually at about the same number of players as in January 2011 (at best, a difference of 2500-3k subscriptions )

The only other point in time where there was ~6 months of protracted decline in the game was summer 2010.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia

Xorv
Questionable Acquisitions
#36 - 2012-03-05 21:12:59 UTC
Alyssa Cristole wrote:

While this aspect of the game has come to be very coveted by a core group of very loyal Eve players, there is another group of people who who just want to pay their subscription and play the game w/o dealing with that crap. If you don't believe we exist, do a simple Google search and read the vast comments across the web of people who say otherwise. Unfortunately, the two gameplay styles can't coexist as they are complete polar opposites. To have one means you have to completely eliminate the other; the in-between is some watered down BS that does not please either sides of the coin. Scams, Ganking, Pk'ing, Thievery, Fraud, and every other sort of douchebaggery still occurs in HighSec; there is no real safe place for the casual player in Eve Online.


The Highlighted part of the quote was the one part of your long post that I actually agree with (well minus lumping all casual players in the same camp as yourself, which is inaccurate). I think CCP is doing a great disservice to their game by adding or supporting gameplay such as High Sec Incursions giving the impression EVE is a good game for Themepark PvE types in addition to Sandbox PvP types that EVE has traditionally been marketed towards. As you say the two cannot happily coexist. EVE has been successful in filling it's unique niche, changing directions to make the game more like Themepark PvE games such as WoW or diverting resources to make a second version of the game sound like recipes for failure.

Alyssa Cristole wrote:

You are right, its not going to happen. Another forum member has a signature that sums it up perfectly:

Eve Residents: 5% Wormholes, 8% LowSec, 20% NullSec, 67% HighSec
CSM 6: 100% NullSec Residents


I think I know who your quoting, that poster is completely out to lunch. Lol

Anyway, the data in the quote is inaccurate and highly misleading. It lists percentage of characters not players. Also, not all of CSM 6 live in Nullsec, and I'm pretty sure all of them had some characters in High Sec. Beyond that your own words undermine the quotes misleading message... "Scams, Ganking, Pk'ing, Thievery, Fraud, and every other sort of douchebaggery still occurs in HighSec;" So, we can conclude that perhaps many of those 67% are not of the same mind as you. Pirate
Alyssa Cristole
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#37 - 2012-03-05 21:50:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Alyssa Cristole
Xorv wrote:
Alyssa Cristole wrote:

While this aspect of the game has come to be very coveted by a core group of very loyal Eve players, there is another group of people who who just want to pay their subscription and play the game w/o dealing with that crap. If you don't believe we exist, do a simple Google search and read the vast comments across the web of people who say otherwise. Unfortunately, the two gameplay styles can't coexist as they are complete polar opposites. To have one means you have to completely eliminate the other; the in-between is some watered down BS that does not please either sides of the coin. Scams, Ganking, Pk'ing, Thievery, Fraud, and every other sort of douchebaggery still occurs in HighSec; there is no real safe place for the casual player in Eve Online.


The Highlighted part of the quote was the one part of your long post that I actually agree with (well minus lumping all casual players in the same camp as yourself, which is inaccurate). I think CCP is doing a great disservice to their game by adding or supporting gameplay such as High Sec Incursions giving the impression EVE is a good game for Themepark PvE types in addition to Sandbox PvP types that EVE has traditionally been marketed towards. As you say the two cannot happily coexist. EVE has been successful in filling it's unique niche, changing directions to make the game more like Themepark PvE games such as WoW or diverting resources to make a second version of the game sound like recipes for failure.

Alyssa Cristole wrote:

You are right, its not going to happen. Another forum member has a signature that sums it up perfectly:

Eve Residents: 5% Wormholes, 8% LowSec, 20% NullSec, 67% HighSec
CSM 6: 100% NullSec Residents


I think I know who your quoting, that poster is completely out to lunch. Lol

Anyway, the data in the quote is inaccurate and highly misleading. It lists percentage of characters not players. Also, not all of CSM 6 live in Nullsec, and I'm pretty sure all of them had some characters in High Sec. Beyond that your own words undermine the quotes misleading message... "Scams, Ganking, Pk'ing, Thievery, Fraud, and every other sort of douchebaggery still occurs in HighSec;" So, we can conclude that perhaps many of those 67% are not of the same mind as you. Pirate


Shocked, another decent reply. Thank you!


One last thing I would like to point out. I love you carebear hating goons talking about "Risk" in Eve when there is absolutely no risk you most of you what-so-ever. Why?

You can use the clone copy (out of body) whatever BS to protect your implants; you can run around in this other body and die w/o loosing anything like your implants. That's NO risk. You already have the isk and plenty of it to replace whatever you want. You are also established enough to be self sufficient. You have NO risk. Risk is running around with two implants you got from a starter mission, with many months before you will be able to replace them because of the price of inflation. Risk is flying around in your only ship trying to run missions, getting put back in a starter ship when you die.

Stop talking about risk when 90% of you have the ability to suicide your ships 50x over and still have enough left over to rebuild. Thats not risk. You are like a bunch of professional poker players who have bank accounts with 50 million dollars that are trying to say there is "risk" in betting a million on "all in". I find it hilarious to see people who can loose what they are flying a hundred times over and still not be broke who talk about risk. These are the same "leet" players who clone backup their implants before going out to PK because they are such risk takers.

Edit: If I had 50 mil isk in the bank and could afford to loose everything several times over, I would not give a crap either. Don't fly what you can't afford to loose? Guess what, there is nothing at this point I can't afford to loose. Furthermore, since there is NO risk for most of you, you can afford to act like cocksuckers because you can't actually loose anything accept possibly falling for some stupid scam where you risk it all. If you do that, you deserve to loose it in my book. What do you expect people to do, join a corp? In a game that prides itself on fuking people over, who is going to trust a corp when they ask you to join?

Risk my ass, you don't know fuking risk because its been years since you risked anything you couldn't replace and its been years since you were at a point in the game where you couldn't replace anything.

Edit 2: And BTW back then there wasn't half the "leet" overpowered **** there is now running around the game. Sure there was not all the new player fluffy stuff that we are given but it still does not change the fact that you talk about risk like you are actually risking anything.
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#38 - 2012-03-05 22:05:24 UTC
lol. The FIRST rule of Eve is never to fly what you can't afford to lose. So you're ranting about people following the most basic rule of Eve. Flying what you can't afford to lose is stupid (though not as stupid as ranting about people not being stupid themselves).
Alyssa Cristole
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#39 - 2012-03-05 22:08:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Alyssa Cristole
mxzf wrote:
lol. The FIRST rule of Eve is never to fly what you can't afford to lose. So you're ranting about people following the most basic rule of Eve. Flying what you can't afford to lose is stupid (though not as stupid as ranting about people not being stupid themselves).



And when the people doing the pk'ing of new players can afford to loose anything they want and the new players can't even afford to loose the starter ship with a few addons? Whats that mean? So basically no new players? The economy of the game has become so broken and the leet players so ruthless that there is no point in playing?

Once again another reply that did not actually answer my question. You guys are great at avoiding topics when you know you are wrong. You have no risk in this game, the only people who have any risk are new players.
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#40 - 2012-03-05 22:21:57 UTC
No, your issue is that you went into Amamake in your only ship. Eve isn't a soft and cuddly world, if you make a mistake (like wandering into the most widely known dangerous lowsec system in your only ship), then will will suffer for it. This isn't an issue with Eve, that was you making a mistake and paying the consequences for it.

New players can get a foothold in the game if they make an effort to do so (which is what most/all of us have done), but Eve won't hold your hand and protect you from your own bad decisions.