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Scammed, and not sure how.

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flakeys
Doomheim
#101 - 2012-01-14 10:25:46 UTC  |  Edited by: flakeys
Zarcan wrote:
I was around 4 years ago, tool..





You are one of the biggest blown up asshats i have encountered in eve after playing for 7 years on the forums.You're thread went from 'This guy should have known better but is probably a new player too bad for him' to ' Jeez what a complete asshat and a fool'.

You play for 4 years yet fail to know jita is 99% scam instead of trying to sell the ship on the frikking sell forums or contract.You fail after 4 years playing to know not to use the trade window.You play for 4 years and that was 1/3 of your wealth?Then you need to make a cry thread about it instead of just filing a petition immediatly , after 4 frikking years you should know no love on the forums for these types of threads.Then you go all rampage rage on people disagreeing with your whine , you know the people who played less yet actually use their brains.The ones who offered free itemsto you are the only ones who get some love offcourse and marked as the heroes of eve.Though it is damn nice of them to give you something it is also utterly foolish .... it's like giving a drug addict 50 dollar instead of a sandwich.


Zarcan wrote:
[quote=Ursula LeGuinn]My God, you're arrogant.


Get a mirror dude .Arrogant AND ignorant on top.



There you made me make a 'damn utter noob' thread for the first time since i started playing eve and i really don't like that.

People like you get on my nerves more then scammers , and i DO dislike scammers a LOT.

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
Seleia O'Sinnor
Drop of Honey
#102 - 2012-01-14 11:26:40 UTC
I like this thread, I like how the OP stands against all these "pew pew PVP is the only real thing in Eve and if you're around such a long time you should have become one of us or biomass yourself" people.
It's so easy to be cool in Eve, just say: Hisec is bullshit, miners are all losers and should be eradicated in an instant, never complain, it's too easily interpreted as whining and start a career as badass pirate or join a nullsec corp.

CCP approves of scams, but not exploits. If the trade window can be exploited, well, this should come to attention of a GM or even better should be fixed some day. But I doubt that CCP will address the issue, all working as intended isn't it?

Please don't mind the rabbel :)

Odyssey: Repacking in POS hangars for modules +1,  but please for other stuff too, especially containers. Make containers openable in POS hangars.
flakeys
Doomheim
#103 - 2012-01-14 11:34:49 UTC  |  Edited by: flakeys
Who says the comments are from null boys only?

The lol highsec remark passed 3 times most.You don't need to be a nullsec dweller to see what a mess OP can make out of his own threads.

Speaking for myself i'm a high sec boy mostly and don't pvp often.Call me an ubercarebear as i mostly do trade , i lost a shitload more to scams then the OP's total wealth is worth according to himself but i'd be damned to make such a rant for it.Deall with it , when in doubt petition , and move on having learned something or stay an ignorant fool and do it again.

If the OP stands for something as you state then all he stands for is that age in eve does mean jack **** , please PLEASE don't make him stand for the hgih sec inhabitants , i'd feel myself forced to move to nullsec then and with me a shitload of other high sec players who would otherwise biomass out of shame ...

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
1-Up Mushroom
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#104 - 2012-01-14 13:16:36 UTC
Brock Nelson wrote:
Knowing 1-Up Mushroom, 50m is chump change for him, I think he's just hoping to get you to shut up and move on

Yea it was chump change for me, but it's just nice to help people out every once in a while.
5 Senses In A Person... 4 Seasons In A Year... 3 Colors In A Stoplight... 2 Poles On The Earth... ONLY 1-UP MUSHROOM!!!  If You Like My Sig, Like Me!   Remember EVE is EVErything!
Mekki Muvila
Petrichor Acquisitions and Industry Development
#105 - 2012-01-14 16:51:12 UTC
1-Up Mushroom wrote:
Brock Nelson wrote:
Knowing 1-Up Mushroom, 50m is chump change for him, I think he's just hoping to get you to shut up and move on

Yea it was chump change for me, but it's just nice to help people out every once in a while.


I got scammed out of an officer fit Kronos, and I'm really sad about it and :CCP: and broken game and ban scammers. Please make out all contracts to Mekki Muvila, Kronos would be nice but I prefer cash.
1-Up Mushroom
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#106 - 2012-01-14 17:04:25 UTC
Mekki Muvila wrote:
1-Up Mushroom wrote:
Brock Nelson wrote:
Knowing 1-Up Mushroom, 50m is chump change for him, I think he's just hoping to get you to shut up and move on

Yea it was chump change for me, but it's just nice to help people out every once in a while.


I got scammed out of an officer fit Kronos, and I'm really sad about it and :CCP: and broken game and ban scammers. Please make out all contracts to Mekki Muvila, Kronos would be nice but I prefer cash.


Make a forum thread about it first, then I'll think about it Blink
5 Senses In A Person... 4 Seasons In A Year... 3 Colors In A Stoplight... 2 Poles On The Earth... ONLY 1-UP MUSHROOM!!!  If You Like My Sig, Like Me!   Remember EVE is EVErything!
Malaclypse Muscaria
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#107 - 2012-01-14 18:04:35 UTC
Julyan Fox wrote:
If OP got scammed because of poor coding I also find a GM should step in and revert the transactions.

Hell this game is almost 10 years old, it's about time to end the beta and work on those kind of details.

CCP do you want to entertain your playerbase or **** them? Scamming is a good thing for this game, but it should be subtle and clever, not some kind of stupid exploit any uneducated kids can pull out by messing with a clunky UI.


My sentiments exactly. Being allowed to scam is one of the things that makes EVE great and stand out as a game, but not if it's done through exploiting bugs or hacks - no matter if they are used to break the trade window, or to not show up in local to gank 0.0 plexers.

The core game mechanics and UI functionality should work as advertised, for everyone. Letting them stay buggy, broken and ripe for abuse, while expecting players to know not to use them, is not acceptable.
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#108 - 2012-01-14 18:09:10 UTC
Even though i cannot stand the particulars of the OPs arguing methods, I do admit those who helped him out were rather nice.

Good to see it sometimes.


Also, I will admit that the trade window needs work. Its just not a high priority because EVE rule #7 is never use the trade window if it matters.


Oh and OP, any sympathy I had for you went away when you said you have been here 4 years. Probably should have kept that to yourself.
Marhaba
Dissolution Syndicate
#109 - 2012-01-15 06:02:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Marhaba
Yay, my very own thread of tears.

There was no exploit, and there was no bug. Lag wasn't a factor either. There is also no confirmation window that pops up when a trade is changed. I didn't get the domi for free, I paid 95k (though I could have gotten it for free in this case if I wanted it).

Let me break it down very slowly for Zarcan:

1) Zarcan advertises his horribly overpriced failfit Domi in local for 95m
2) I open a trade window
3) I hit "offer isk," enter 95m, hit ok
4) I hit "offer isk" again, backspace off 3 zeroes
5) I wait
6) Zarcan puts in his domi
7) I hit enter twice. The first enter changes the isk offered, the second enter accepts the trade
8) Zarcan immediately accepts the trade

In the time it takes to move his mouse from where he dropped the domi to the accept button, I've already hit enter. That can be done in a fraction of a second; whatever the reaction time is between my eyes registering that something is in the trade window and the signal reaching my right index finger to hit enter. So, from Zarcan's perspective, he saw 95m, dropped his domi and hit enter almost immediately, but still long enough for me to change the price.

I know this isn't news to most of you guys, but Zarcan seems to need the "Scamming for Dummies" version.

I'm surprised this thread stayed in general discussion so long. Shouldn't this have been moved to C&P? I'm also surprised this is my first thread (that I've seen, anyway), and that of all my station trade scams, this is the one that gets me a thread. There was the one I took 4 plexes from... the rigged rattlesnake... oh, and the 14 year old kid that I took 2 plexes from that he had just paid for with his mom's credit card. He accused me of ruining his life. I would have expected a thread from any of those.

But this? A domi I sold for 65m? Kind of a surprise. I didn't even really get any tears at first. It wasn't until about an hour later did the tears start flowing.

Like I said in private convo, "take the loss like a man, learn from your mistake, and thank whatever God you believe in that I didn't get you for more."

Don't get so offended that somebody bested you at a game. Do you act the same way when somebody beats you in chess?
Jack Tronic
borkedLabs
#110 - 2012-01-15 07:36:45 UTC
There's a bug with the trade UI where it won't update, same bug exists with a few other UI elements, bugs have been reported for the last 2 months.

:CCP:
Kitten Arbosa
#111 - 2012-01-15 08:02:08 UTC
Marhaba wrote:
Yay, my very own thread of tears.

There was no exploit, and there was no bug. Lag wasn't a factor either. There is also no confirmation window that pops up when a trade is changed. I didn't get the domi for free, I paid 95k (though I could have gotten it for free in this case if I wanted it).

Let me break it down very slowly for Zarcan:

1) Zarcan advertises his horribly overpriced failfit Domi in local for 95m
2) I open a trade window
3) I hit "offer isk," enter 95m, hit ok
4) I hit "offer isk" again, backspace off 3 zeroes
5) I wait
6) Zarcan puts in his domi
7) I hit enter twice. The first enter changes the isk offered, the second enter accepts the trade
8) Zarcan immediately accepts the trade

In the time it takes to move his mouse from where he dropped the domi to the accept button, I've already hit enter. That can be done in a fraction of a second; whatever the reaction time is between my eyes registering that something is in the trade window and the signal reaching my right index finger to hit enter. So, from Zarcan's perspective, he saw 95m, dropped his domi and hit enter almost immediately, but still long enough for me to change the price.

I know this isn't news to most of you guys, but Zarcan seems to need the "Scamming for Dummies" version.

I'm surprised this thread stayed in general discussion so long. Shouldn't this have been moved to C&P? I'm also surprised this is my first thread (that I've seen, anyway), and that of all my station trade scams, this is the one that gets me a thread. There was the one I took 4 plexes from... the rigged rattlesnake... oh, and the 14 year old kid that I took 2 plexes from that he had just paid for with his mom's credit card. He accused me of ruining his life. I would have expected a thread from any of those.

But this? A domi I sold for 65m? Kind of a surprise. I didn't even really get any tears at first. It wasn't until about an hour later did the tears start flowing.

Like I said in private convo, "take the loss like a man, learn from your mistake, and thank whatever God you believe in that I didn't get you for more."

Don't get so offended that somebody bested you at a game. Do you act the same way when somebody beats you in chess?


Problem is, that's the definition of the trade lag scam, and CCP has said it's an exploit. If it gets petitioned and the logs show something, well..
Lady Aja
#112 - 2012-01-15 08:19:35 UTC
1-Up Mushroom wrote:
Brock Nelson wrote:
Knowing 1-Up Mushroom, 50m is chump change for him, I think he's just hoping to get you to shut up and move on

Yea it was chump change for me, but it's just nice to help people out every once in a while.


good man..

right up there with me giving away a rattler.
where is my ability to link a sig properly CCP you munters!!
Ezurae
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#113 - 2012-01-15 12:38:06 UTC
first thing (someone already mentioned but i believe it didnt reach the op): money of trades is not registered in the transaction journal but in the "normal" journal. If you check there you will probably find that you recieved 95.000 Isk.

second thing: that isnt at all an exploit or using lag or anything. its just using your stupidity of hitting accept right after you entered the ship into the trade window. Yeah there were 95m first, you waited for it before you put your ship in there... but everyone knows it can be changed again before you hit accept. If you would have actually waited a while after entering your ship you would have seen him changing the money...
if you really use the trade window, wait a while after you AND him entered the stuff into the trade window before you hit accept...

well or just use the contract system, which would have been the smartest choice for you rigged domi anyways.

btw you really got lucky that some ppl felt they should reward the stupidity of yours...

Out of curiosity did you really not fall for any other huge scams before? because if you never lost quite a few isk multiple times there is no way you can still be this poor after such a long time... Ofc its something totally different if your account was inactive for quite a while which i can not know.
Miyamato
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#114 - 2012-01-15 14:14:24 UTC
Someone was nice enough to offer me my first Cruiser in the trade window.

It all ended up just fine. I gave the money, i got the cruiser and we all parted ways happily ever after.

Not everyone is an asshat, but when it comes to the WWW or online gaming, most are. Mainly because they can hide behind their keyboard and theres no real consequence to being a complete asshat. Online is basically what the world would be like if there were no governing rules. There wouldn't be complete and total chaos, but the majority of people would be out to hurt their fellow man, not help. Really, online gaming is humanity in its truest form. You'll find great people, and you'll find utter @#$#@@# people. Like the real world, but the ratio between good / bad is staggeringly higher. I mean, where else in the world can you go and find a 11 year old talking mad @@#^ to someone 3x his age and getting away with it? School yes, but nowhere else does it happen besides online.

I can understand the OP's frustration. But I already knew how this thread would turn out as soon as I saw the line about the trade window bug. There were similar things in UO. Like opening the trade window, throwing in more weight then the other person could carry and making random objects from that persons inventory fall to the ground to pick up due to the overweight issue. Happened all the time.

People are usually out to make money as easily and quickly as possible. Fun be damned. The only thing fun about scamming to the scammer is the reward in the end, and the absolute no risk. Someone on rookie chat the other day was actually openly stating how he can't wait for Dusk 514 just so he has a new line of players to scam from. Trying to get a pat on the back because he has made billions off scamming. Mind boggling really, with how big the game is and how much there is to do.
Marhaba
Dissolution Syndicate
#115 - 2012-01-15 14:31:22 UTC
Kitten Arbosa wrote:

Problem is, that's the definition of the trade lag scam, and CCP has said it's an exploit. If it gets petitioned and the logs show something, well..


There was no lag involved. It was only him hitting "accept" without double-checking the amount. I'll need you to show me some proof that changing the amount in a trade window is an exploit, because that would be the first time I've ever heard that.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#116 - 2012-01-15 14:38:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Kitten Arbosa wrote:
Problem is, that's the definition of the trade lag scam, and CCP has said it's an exploit. If it gets petitioned and the logs show something, well..
No, the problem is that it's not a lag scam unless lag is involved. There is nothing to suggest that there was — just that the OP didn't hover over the “accept“ button a second or two longer to finally, finally check the ISK amount before actually accepting.

What happens here:
A: Gives a number and accepts.
B: Sees the number, drops Domi.
A: Alters the number and quickly accepts again — altering the number resets all “accepts”, but only A has accepted anything so far and he re-accepts in roughly zero seconds due to quick fingers.
B: Doesn't notice the change and accepts.

What would be a lag scam:
A: Gives a number and does or does not accept (not entirely relevant).
B: Sees the number, drops Domi and accepts.
A: Alters the number and accepts, the trade goes through before the server can properly register the change and reset B's accept.

The difference between the two is that, in the first case, B finalises the deal and everyone has accepted it in good order; in the second case, A finalises the deal, which shouldn't be possible but works anyway because of lag.

So far, it rather seems like the OP failed to do what is the golden standard of trade: always double (triple) check what you're agreeing on before doing so.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#117 - 2012-01-15 14:40:30 UTC
Morganta wrote:
Zarcan wrote:
Seatox wrote:
The trade window is terrible, and vulnerable to sleight of hand - and you shouldn't use it for commerce.

What probably happened was they put in 95 million, then zeroed it *and then hit accept*, and you didn't notice them zeroing the value before you hit accept.

Use the contract system instead.


Nope, I'm aware of that tactic. The 95mil was there.

Feligast wrote:
and it's unlikely your petition would result in anything. Chalk it up as an eve lesson and get back at it.


Well this is unacceptable. That ship is worth 1/3 of my savings in the game, and I lost it due to poor game mechanics. I shouldn't be liable for unsatisfactory trade window code.


if you haven't been bankrupt by a scam or gank at least once, you haven't been playing EVE
They wont admit it, but everyone here has had it happen in some form or another at least once


So far as I am aware, I've never been scammed.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Miyamato
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#118 - 2012-01-15 14:42:20 UTC
What would make this trade window scamming impossible would be a final screen that shows the absolute end of the trade.
Say I am buying a BC for 100 million. The battlecruiser enters the window, I put my money into the window and accept. Then the screen pops up with a final trade of Battlecruiser for 100,000,000. Do you Accept? YES. Then voila, the end result is controlled by the server and everything goes through smoothly.

Pretty easy fix really.
Marhaba
Dissolution Syndicate
#119 - 2012-01-15 14:44:49 UTC
Miyamato wrote:
What would make this trade window scamming impossible would be a final screen that shows the absolute end of the trade.
Say I am buying a BC for 100 million. The battlecruiser enters the window, I put my money into the window and accept. Then the screen pops up with a final trade of Battlecruiser for 100,000,000. Do you Accept? YES. Then voila, the end result is controlled by the server and everything goes through smoothly.

Pretty easy fix really.


Fix? I'm not convinced anything's broken.
Ursula LeGuinn
Perkone
Caldari State
#120 - 2012-01-15 14:55:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Ursula LeGuinn
I've never been scammed, most likely because I carefully researched EVE scams back when I first started playing, but my account was hacked back in 2006. I'm still not 100% sure what happened, but I strongly suspect I entered my username and password into a spoofed account management page.

I felt really, really stupid, which is a good way to feel when you get hacked.

I've been extremely paranoid since then; my password is hideously complex, and I never enter my login information into any official-looking webpage I haven't already bookmarked after double-, triple- and quadruple-checking the website URL and its credentials.

"The EVE forums are intended to provide a warm, friendly atmosphere for the EVE community." — EVElopedia