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Scammed, and not sure how.

First post
Author
Andski
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#61 - 2012-01-14 02:31:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Andski
Zleon Leigh wrote:
Andski wrote:
scams are a part of the game, as long as the scammer isn't taking advantage of a bug. deal with it. it's just another form of PvP.

what's next, do you want suicide gankers to be banned? you're hilarious



Suicide gankers encounter risk/reward. No balance at all in scamming - it's win for them and loose on so many fronts it's almost impossible to count for us.


the risk/reward doctrine doesn't apply to everything in eve, and there's risk in scamming (getting outed, wasting your time, etc.)

the OP is an idiot for getting scammed and crying about it on the forums

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#62 - 2012-01-14 02:35:13 UTC
I was scammed once... a long time ago... at first it hurt. Then I started stealing loot and haven't had a care since.


Moral of the story, steal more, cry less.
Disdaine
#63 - 2012-01-14 02:41:43 UTC
+1 eve community.

Derp your fit sucks.

Derp hi-sec player.

Derp you got scammed by someone abusing a broken trade mechanic. I will not acknowledge that this game lacks a secure player to player trade mechanic like every other mmo, but instead I will call you stupid for trying to use it.

Zleon Leigh
#64 - 2012-01-14 02:56:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Zleon Leigh
Andski wrote:
Zleon Leigh wrote:
Andski wrote:
scams are a part of the game, as long as the scammer isn't taking advantage of a bug. deal with it. it's just another form of PvP.

what's next, do you want suicide gankers to be banned? you're hilarious



Suicide gankers encounter risk/reward. No balance at all in scamming - it's win for them and loose on so many fronts it's almost impossible to count for us.


the risk/reward doctrine doesn't apply to everything in eve, and there's risk in scamming (getting outed, wasting your time, etc.)


Really? Risk/reward is all I hear is driving every part of EVE. CCP blather's it constantly. Sandbox proponents say it is required to hold the box together.

Getting outed? So what? They are not going anywhere anyways - the trade hubs are their safe holes while isk/material is transferred anonymously to alts. Many Pilots are claiming that scamming is the most lucrative career there is - because there is zero downside and all it takes are simple bots to execute adverts and scams.

Scamming is the disease that holds EVE back. If it's going to be a trade and continue to be supported by fail, but fully endorsed CCP mechanics - then it needs a balance before the disease finishes eroding the new player base away.

Incarna - Newest business example of mismanaged capital. CCP - Continuing to gank independent PI producers every day

PvP's latest  incentive program ** Unified Inventory **  'Cause you gotta kill something after trying to use it

Montevius Williams
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#65 - 2012-01-14 02:57:14 UTC
Disdaine wrote:
+1 eve community.

Derp your fit sucks.

Derp hi-sec player.

Derp you got scammed by someone abusing a broken trade mechanic. I will not acknowledge that this game lacks a secure player to player trade mechanic like every other mmo, but instead I will call you stupid for trying to use it.



First, He's only stupid if he KNEW it was broken but still tried to use it.
Second, why wont you acknowledge it's broken? You like EVE being broken? Attitudes like this is why **** in EVE DOESN'T get fixed.

"The American Government indoctrination system known as public education has been relentlessly churning out socialists for over 20 years". - TravisWB

Montevius Williams
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#66 - 2012-01-14 03:05:00 UTC
Andski wrote:
Zleon Leigh wrote:
Andski wrote:
scams are a part of the game, as long as the scammer isn't taking advantage of a bug. deal with it. it's just another form of PvP.

what's next, do you want suicide gankers to be banned? you're hilarious



Suicide gankers encounter risk/reward. No balance at all in scamming - it's win for them and loose on so many fronts it's almost impossible to count for us.


the risk/reward doctrine doesn't apply to everything in eve, and there's risk in scamming (getting outed, wasting your time, etc.)

the OP is an idiot for getting scammed and crying about it on the forums



lol Wasting your time? I dont consider that a risk. If you consider that a risk, apply that to EVERYTHING you do in EVE.

I need to travel 10 jumps to my level 4 mission, that takes time (risk)
I need to mine these minerals, that takes time (risk)
I need to set up my PI colony, that takes time (risk)


Wasting time is not a risk.

It's a part of doing business yes, but its not a risk.

"The American Government indoctrination system known as public education has been relentlessly churning out socialists for over 20 years". - TravisWB

Andski
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#67 - 2012-01-14 03:13:39 UTC
Zleon Leigh wrote:
Really? Risk/reward is all I hear is driving every part of EVE. CCP blather's it constantly. Sandbox proponents say it is required to hold the box together.

Getting outed? So what? They are not going anywhere anyways - the trade hubs are their safe holes while isk/material is transferred anonymously to alts. Many Pilots are claiming that scamming is the most lucrative career there is - because there is zero downside and all it takes are simple bots to execute adverts and scams.

Scamming is the disease that holds EVE back. If it's going to be a trade and continue to be supported by fail, but fully endorsed CCP mechanics - then it needs a balance before the disease finishes eroding the new player base away.


Actually, using macros to spam adverts or create contracts/trades IS bannable. Making scamming bannable would destroy any notion of Eve being a "sandbox." You're an idiot.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#68 - 2012-01-14 03:13:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Disdaine wrote:
I will not acknowledge that this game lacks a secure player to player trade mechanic like every other mmo, but instead I will call you stupid for trying to use it.
Why would anyone acknowledge that when the game has numerous secure trading mechanics?

Zleon Leigh wrote:
Scamming is the disease that holds EVE back. If it's going to be a trade and continue to be supported by fail, but fully endorsed CCP mechanics - then it needs a balance before the disease finishes eroding the new player base away.
Lolno. It's one of the things that has made EVE famous and brought people in.
Oh, and it's plenty balanced — scams are hilariously easy to avoid.
Andski
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#69 - 2012-01-14 03:14:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Andski
Montevius Williams wrote:
Andski wrote:
Zleon Leigh wrote:
Andski wrote:
scams are a part of the game, as long as the scammer isn't taking advantage of a bug. deal with it. it's just another form of PvP.

what's next, do you want suicide gankers to be banned? you're hilarious



Suicide gankers encounter risk/reward. No balance at all in scamming - it's win for them and loose on so many fronts it's almost impossible to count for us.


the risk/reward doctrine doesn't apply to everything in eve, and there's risk in scamming (getting outed, wasting your time, etc.)

the OP is an idiot for getting scammed and crying about it on the forums



lol Wasting your time? I dont consider that a risk. If you consider that a risk, apply that to EVERYTHING you do in EVE.

I need to travel 10 jumps to my level 4 mission, that takes time (risk)
I need to mine these minerals, that takes time (risk)
I need to set up my PI colony, that takes time (risk)


Wasting time is not a risk.

It's a part of doing business yes, but its not a risk.


I don't really care what you consider a "risk" or not.

If I join a corp, spend 6 months working my way up the ranks and ultimately find that they have nothing worth stealing, despite evidence to the contrary, there goes 6 months of my time. Six months that I could have spent scamming, doing PvE or making ISK through other means. Yes, wasting time is a risk and you're an idiot.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

Jorn Isu
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#70 - 2012-01-14 03:24:10 UTC
Montevius Williams wrote:
Andski wrote:
Zleon Leigh wrote:
Andski wrote:
scams are a part of the game, as long as the scammer isn't taking advantage of a bug. deal with it. it's just another form of PvP.

what's next, do you want suicide gankers to be banned? you're hilarious



Suicide gankers encounter risk/reward. No balance at all in scamming - it's win for them and loose on so many fronts it's almost impossible to count for us.


the risk/reward doctrine doesn't apply to everything in eve, and there's risk in scamming (getting outed, wasting your time, etc.)

the OP is an idiot for getting scammed and crying about it on the forums



lol Wasting your time? I dont consider that a risk. If you consider that a risk, apply that to EVERYTHING you do in EVE.

I need to travel 10 jumps to my level 4 mission, that takes time (risk)
I need to mine these minerals, that takes time (risk)
I need to set up my PI colony, that takes time (risk)


Wasting time is not a risk.

It's a part of doing business yes, but its not a risk.

But all 3 of those examples aren't wasted time. Imagine if Level 4 missions paid in lottery tickets instead of straight ISK/LP/loot. Then you'd run the risk of "wasting your time".
Montevius Williams
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#71 - 2012-01-14 03:24:26 UTC
Andski wrote:
Montevius Williams wrote:
Andski wrote:
Zleon Leigh wrote:
Andski wrote:
scams are a part of the game, as long as the scammer isn't taking advantage of a bug. deal with it. it's just another form of PvP.

what's next, do you want suicide gankers to be banned? you're hilarious



Suicide gankers encounter risk/reward. No balance at all in scamming - it's win for them and loose on so many fronts it's almost impossible to count for us.


the risk/reward doctrine doesn't apply to everything in eve, and there's risk in scamming (getting outed, wasting your time, etc.)

the OP is an idiot for getting scammed and crying about it on the forums



lol Wasting your time? I dont consider that a risk. If you consider that a risk, apply that to EVERYTHING you do in EVE.

I need to travel 10 jumps to my level 4 mission, that takes time (risk)
I need to mine these minerals, that takes time (risk)
I need to set up my PI colony, that takes time (risk)


Wasting time is not a risk.

It's a part of doing business yes, but its not a risk.


I don't really care what you consider a "risk" or not.

If I join a corp, spend 6 months working my way up the ranks and ultimately find that they have nothing worth stealing, despite evidence to the contrary, there goes 6 months of my time. Six months that I could have spent scamming, doing PvE or making ISK through other means. Yes, wasting time is a risk and you're an idiot.



So a better statement would be to say that risk is situational, dumbass idiot. Roll

"The American Government indoctrination system known as public education has been relentlessly churning out socialists for over 20 years". - TravisWB

Selinate
#72 - 2012-01-14 03:31:43 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Zarcan wrote:
CCP decides what is legitimate and what isn't.
…and they've decided that scamming is legitimate. So you can stop with the “ban them” nonsense.


Depends on the scam.
Andski
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#73 - 2012-01-14 03:31:52 UTC
Montevius Williams wrote:
So a better statement would be to say that risk is situational, dumbass idiot. Roll


Because that's the only situation where wasted time is possible, right?

With margin trading scams, you have the risk that someone with a stockpile of whatever item you're working with will dump into your buy order. With public contract scams, you risk a ton of ISK in fees. Trade window scams are a "grey area" and exploiting lag comes with the risk of a ban, if the GM is inclined to investigate and concludes that taking advantage of lag (which isn't a real game mechanic) was your intent.

Now, when you complain about scamming being risk-free, you're being selective of what you consider a "risk," but of course, ISK or time wasted isn't a risk, right?

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#74 - 2012-01-14 03:35:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Selinate wrote:
Depends on the scam.
The only scams that aren't allowed are those done through the account management: character trades and GTC trades (largely because they involve out-of-game, real-life cash and assets). If it's an in-game scam, it's allowed.
Zleon Leigh
#75 - 2012-01-14 03:45:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Zleon Leigh
Andski wrote:
Zleon Leigh wrote:
Really? Risk/reward is all I hear is driving every part of EVE. CCP blather's it constantly. Sandbox proponents say it is required to hold the box together.

Getting outed? So what? They are not going anywhere anyways - the trade hubs are their safe holes while isk/material is transferred anonymously to alts. Many Pilots are claiming that scamming is the most lucrative career there is - because there is zero downside and all it takes are simple bots to execute adverts and scams.

Scamming is the disease that holds EVE back. If it's going to be a trade and continue to be supported by fail, but fully endorsed CCP mechanics - then it needs a balance before the disease finishes eroding the new player base away.


Actually, using macros to spam adverts or create contracts/trades IS bannable. Making scamming bannable would destroy any notion of Eve being a "sandbox." You're an idiot.


And you can't read. I never said they should be bannable. I said there should be consequences, such as sec hit and station ejection.

Incarna - Newest business example of mismanaged capital. CCP - Continuing to gank independent PI producers every day

PvP's latest  incentive program ** Unified Inventory **  'Cause you gotta kill something after trying to use it

Andski
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#76 - 2012-01-14 03:48:11 UTC
Zleon Leigh wrote:
And you can't read. I never said they should be bannable. I said there should be consequences, such as sec hit and station ejection.l


nah that's dumb

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

Montevius Williams
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#77 - 2012-01-14 03:48:40 UTC
Andski wrote:
Montevius Williams wrote:
So a better statement would be to say that risk is situational, dumbass idiot. Roll


Because that's the only situation where wasted time is possible, right?

With margin trading scams, you have the risk that someone with a stockpile of whatever item you're working with will dump into your buy order. With public contract scams, you risk a ton of ISK in fees. Trade window scams are a "grey area" and exploiting lag comes with the risk of a ban, if the GM is inclined to investigate and concludes that taking advantage of lag (which isn't a real game mechanic) was your intent.

Now, when you complain about scamming being risk-free, you're being selective of what you consider a "risk," but of course, ISK or time wasted isn't a risk, right?



I never said that scamming should be risk free - please link to where I said that.

And no, time wasting is not a risk...YOU are the one making a blanket statement on this. Not me. Hell, if you want to say its relative to the person doing it, fine. But in and of itself, time wasting is not a risk.

Margin Trading - Risking Isk
Public Contracts -Risking Isk

These are fine becasue you are risking isk, but we are not talking about that, we're talking about wasting time and if time is a risk or not.

"The American Government indoctrination system known as public education has been relentlessly churning out socialists for over 20 years". - TravisWB

Elessa Enaka
Doomheim
#78 - 2012-01-14 04:29:57 UTC
Kehro Urgus wrote:
For the size of the loss I don't see why all this melodrama...


Because, that was 1/3 (or 1/2, depending on which figure he has used in this thread, assuming you believe either one) of his total wealth in-game

TBH, if you ask me, he shouldn't have been going after a Navy Domi if he was going to be spending all of his in-game wealth on it

Isn't Rule #1: Don't fly what you can't afford to lose?

Devour to survive, so it is, so it's always been Eve is a great game if you can get past all of the asshats....

Maxpie
MUSE LLP
RAZOR Alliance
#79 - 2012-01-14 04:37:03 UTC
Andski wrote:
Montevius Williams wrote:
Andski wrote:
Zleon Leigh wrote:
Andski wrote:
scams are a part of the game, as long as the scammer isn't taking advantage of a bug. deal with it. it's just another form of PvP.

what's next, do you want suicide gankers to be banned? you're hilarious



Suicide gankers encounter risk/reward. No balance at all in scamming - it's win for them and loose on so many fronts it's almost impossible to count for us.


the risk/reward doctrine doesn't apply to everything in eve, and there's risk in scamming (getting outed, wasting your time, etc.)

the OP is an idiot for getting scammed and crying about it on the forums



lol Wasting your time? I dont consider that a risk. If you consider that a risk, apply that to EVERYTHING you do in EVE.

I need to travel 10 jumps to my level 4 mission, that takes time (risk)
I need to mine these minerals, that takes time (risk)
I need to set up my PI colony, that takes time (risk)


Wasting time is not a risk.

It's a part of doing business yes, but its not a risk.


I don't really care what you consider a "risk" or not.

If I join a corp, spend 6 months working my way up the ranks and ultimately find that they have nothing worth stealing, despite evidence to the contrary, there goes 6 months of my time. Six months that I could have spent scamming, doing PvE or making ISK through other means. Yes, wasting time is a risk and you're an idiot.


This point would be valid if there were no alts or second accounts. As is, there is no actual risk for scamming since people hide behind these alts and spend most of their time on their mains. There's no risk of loss of reputation or of being violenced. Eve would be awesome if it could somehow be only 1 character per person, unfortunately that's impossible.

No good deed goes unpunished

Doctor Ungabungas
Doomheim
#80 - 2012-01-14 05:10:48 UTC
Zarcan wrote:
ShahFluffers wrote:
Are you sure you saw 95.000.000.00 and not 95.000.00?

Remember to ALWAYS count the digits and subtract by two (as those last two are "cents").

Yeah... dumb interface deatails thingy. But somehow... I have this nagging suspicion that CCP made it this way on purpose for this exact reason.


Yes, considering there was no exchange of money whatsoever according to my transactions journal.

Also, hooray for my first forum like recieved. \o/


Trades don't show up in the 'transactions' journal. They only show up in the general journal tab.