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Scammed, and not sure how.

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Aiwha
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#141 - 2012-01-15 20:43:37 UTC
Zarcan wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Zarcan wrote:
The fault of the decent into a state of tyranny rests on the shoulders of the apathetic.

…except that scamming is explicitly and purposefully allowed by the game designers. Its existence has nothing to do with apathy.





... and why the hell would we as a playerbase tolerate that?



Because most of us don't care. Never been scammed, never will be scammed. (If you want to take that as a challenge, feel free to do so)

Sanity is fun leaving the body.
FadeIN Fr0St
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#142 - 2012-01-15 20:48:59 UTC
Feligast wrote:
Good luck with that Roll

And I'm so glad you found the money to form your own corp a few minutes ago. Not so broke, huh?


Goons are good trolls, how u fail so bad?

"All hail Wang ... the little fella in Command. When 'trouble' starts to spread, I'm sure he will rise to the occasion."

Azahni Vah'nos (Best reply ever)
Bloodpetal
Tir Capital Management Group
#143 - 2012-01-15 20:54:31 UTC
Quote:
You are receiving a ship through this trade session. Keep in mind that even though you may have been told otherwise, this ship does not necessarily contain any modules or rigs.

If you want to be safe you should accept the ship through an Item Exchange contract instead.

Are you sure you want to continue?



Ya.

Don't trade ships through trade window.

Period, the end.

Where I am.
Miyamato
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#144 - 2012-01-15 21:11:18 UTC
Ai Shun wrote:
Miyamato wrote:
Lying and stealing someone elses property is not a legitimate mechanic. There is a different between a gullible person falling for a trap and an actual game-creating bug/mechanic that causes the ability to scam. If someone accepts a contracted mission and goes out to the spot to pick up the item and then gets killed, that is a legitimate game mechanic. That is someone setting a legitimate trap, someone falling into it, and getting killed in the process. Thats legitimate.


What about the trade scams in Jita? They are lies that end up with somebody stealing anothers' property.


Is that supposed to be a point?

I'm baffled to be honest. Like I said I have played dozens of MMO's and never once seen a community that is so .... blah .... about scamming.

Usually people complain about it, the devs fix the exploit or scamming method and everyone moves along. In this game, you actually have people saying people play EVE just to scam? You do know this is a game right? The money they make in game, from the scamming, has nothing to do with the real world? So why would someone actually start paying for a game just to scam people for no real reason?

That, in essence, is insane. I dunno. I'm mind blown tbh.

I think the people saying this stuff are the scammers themselves. Thats the only logical explanation.
Zarcan
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#145 - 2012-01-15 21:15:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Zarcan
Miyamato wrote:
Ai Shun wrote:
Miyamato wrote:
Lying and stealing someone elses property is not a legitimate mechanic. There is a different between a gullible person falling for a trap and an actual game-creating bug/mechanic that causes the ability to scam. If someone accepts a contracted mission and goes out to the spot to pick up the item and then gets killed, that is a legitimate game mechanic. That is someone setting a legitimate trap, someone falling into it, and getting killed in the process. Thats legitimate.


What about the trade scams in Jita? They are lies that end up with somebody stealing anothers' property.


Is that supposed to be a point?

I'm baffled to be honest. Like I said I have played dozens of MMO's and never once seen a community that is so .... blah .... about scamming.

Usually people complain about it, the devs fix the exploit or scamming method and everyone moves along. In this game, you actually have people saying people play EVE just to scam? You do know this is a game right? The money they make in game, from the scamming, has nothing to do with the real world? So why would someone actually start paying for a game just to scam people for no real reason?

That, in essence, is insane. I dunno. I'm mind blown tbh.

I think the people saying this stuff are the scammers themselves. Thats the only logical explanation.


Perhaps I shouldn't endorse you as I'm not too popular in this thread Straight haha, but indeed, I'm really astounded at how many people actively defend it. I understand its a part of the game, I understand CCP endorses it, I'll never understand why the players fight for it so adamantly.

From my perspective, it doesn't *have* to be this way, and we wouldn't be having this 8 page discussion if it were a black and white issue, as some people would have you believe.
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#146 - 2012-01-15 21:19:49 UTC
Dear OP ...

If you send me 10 Million ISK,
i promise you that within two minutes only ...

... ******* NOTHING will happen !

This really works ! It's no scam !
I did it TWICE and it worked BOTH TIMES !!

Just send me the money and see for yourself!
Nothing will happen !

Thanks !

(i'm sorry, but i really can't take this topic seriously, after the 9000 others i've read already)
Ispai Ponue
Chaos Delivery Systems
#147 - 2012-01-15 21:30:36 UTC
Zarcan wrote:
Marhaba > 0/
Zarcan > So I'm gonna go ahead and humbly request that you give me what's mine.
Marhaba > what, like a wardec? Gladly
Zarcan > How about that Dominix? You know, that one that represents 1/2 of my capital in EVE
Marhaba > i've already sold it. [Contract for 65mil]
Zarcan > Well then surely you've got the money to reinburse me.

...


hehehehe

All you're doing is making the dude's day.

You can't possibly get them back, or make them feel bad in any way....but you might have not given them even MORE lols.
Ezurae
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#148 - 2012-01-15 21:32:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Ezurae
Zarcan wrote:
Miyamato wrote:
Ai Shun wrote:
Miyamato wrote:
Lying and stealing someone elses property is not a legitimate mechanic. There is a different between a gullible person falling for a trap and an actual game-creating bug/mechanic that causes the ability to scam. If someone accepts a contracted mission and goes out to the spot to pick up the item and then gets killed, that is a legitimate game mechanic. That is someone setting a legitimate trap, someone falling into it, and getting killed in the process. Thats legitimate.


What about the trade scams in Jita? They are lies that end up with somebody stealing anothers' property.


Is that supposed to be a point?

I'm baffled to be honest. Like I said I have played dozens of MMO's and never once seen a community that is so .... blah .... about scamming.

Usually people complain about it, the devs fix the exploit or scamming method and everyone moves along. In this game, you actually have people saying people play EVE just to scam? You do know this is a game right? The money they make in game, from the scamming, has nothing to do with the real world? So why would someone actually start paying for a game just to scam people for no real reason?

That, in essence, is insane. I dunno. I'm mind blown tbh.

I think the people saying this stuff are the scammers themselves. Thats the only logical explanation.


Perhaps I shouldn't endorse you as I'm not too popular in this thread Straight haha, but indeed, I'm really astounded at how many people actively defend it. I understand its a part of the game, I understand CCP endorses it, I'll never understand why the players fight for it so adamantly.

From my perspective, it doesn't *have* to be this way, and we wouldn't be having this 8 page discussion if it were a black and white issue, as some people would have you believe.


cause some people still like a concept called "natural selection". you dont have it in RL but we sure as hell can have it in EVE and removing isk from the "not so smart"-people is part of that. In most cases the scammer will probably even make better use of the isk than the person who fell for the scam (In your case probably true too)...
Don't like it? go play WoW ---->

The reason you got scammed is that you were just so greedy that you instantly clicked accept after you put your ship in because you wanted all that money which was way to much for your ship plus rigs. Next time don't be greedy, if you use the trade window, just wait a while before you click accept (even if the other person could still change their mind then). But i guess you are pretty resistent to learning (seeing how old your char is and, well, how far you've gotten...). This time learning will probably especially hard since you even got rewarded for your mistake...

I don't feel bad for anyone who gets scammed. Scamming exploits greediness and stupidity, which is a good thing. I've been playing since Beta and have never ever been scammed even for a single isk. And i also didnt have to read/search anything on the internet to be smart enough and avoid any kind of scam.

There's nothing for free and every deal which sounds to good to be true probably isnt true. But greedy people want to believe its true and because of that get scammed. Nothing wrong with it.


P.S.: Although I'm defending scamming here I do agree that the trade window/trade mechanism could definately improved. But since there are alternative ways to trade with strangers (contracts) I don't see it as one of the pressing issues
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#149 - 2012-01-15 21:35:33 UTC
Zarcan wrote:
Perhaps I shouldn't endorse you as I'm not too popular in this thread Straight haha, but indeed, I'm really astounded at how many people actively defend it. I understand its a part of the game, I understand CCP endorses it, I'll never understand why the players fight for it so adamantly.
Because it's part of what makes EVE and there is no reason to remove it and make EVE less unique. Scams are great for separating the unwary and inattentive from their cash, and that's entirely in line with the kind of world that the game is build around. Some of the most spectacular stories in EVE — the ones that have been of such a scale that even main-stream media has picked up on them — have been about huge feats of scamming and underhandedness.

Why would you want to make EVE less interesting? if that's what you like, there are plenty of grey-ooze trudgefests with zero requirements on the player's concentration and attention out there.
Ispai Ponue
Chaos Delivery Systems
#150 - 2012-01-15 21:37:48 UTC
Zarcan wrote:


From my perspective, it doesn't *have* to be this way, and we wouldn't be having this 8 page discussion if it were a black and white issue, as some people would have you believe.


Because there's not much that's funnier than watching some idiot that got scammed QQ about it all week. Having to deal with dumb people all day long at work, it's kind of cathartic watching them get bashed to hell in EvE. Watching them beg for the rules to change so they can be dumb all day in EvE too, and watching CCP ignore their cries....it's yummy.

It's true...there are just some aspects of eve that are all about doing all the stuff we can't do in real life because we'd get into trouble and/or have to kill some fool.
Ispai Ponue
Chaos Delivery Systems
#151 - 2012-01-15 21:47:25 UTC
Miyamato wrote:
Brock Nelson wrote:
Exactly, and how do you expect lag to be fixed? It's been a problem ever since Eve first came out and it's been a problem for every multiplayer game that ever exist.


Well thats easy. Do not make the process lag dependant.

Make it where the trade has to be finalized and accepted on both ends, with no chance at alteration before the trade can actually be completed.

A simple final acceptance screen with the final trade showcased would be something that took a week of coding, probably alot less depending on the amount of people and would completely eliminate any chance of trade window scamming.

You see a screen pop up after both parties agree on the initial trade. The server scans the final trade and pops a message on both screens " You are about to initiate a trade with *player *. *Player* Offers XXXX Item. * You * Offer XXXX ISK/Item in return. Do you Accept?

When both parties hit the accept button, then the trade is finished. Not until then.

Very easy actually.


It's called " a contract" and to get there you click the contracts window or you can right click the item(s) and say, "create contract."
Sable Moran
Moran Light Industries
#152 - 2012-01-15 21:49:17 UTC
Miyamato wrote:
I'm baffled to be honest. Like I said I have played dozens of MMO's and never once seen a community that is so .... blah .... about scamming.


Only stupidity gets you scammed and stupid must be punished people won't learn otherwise. When you get hit through your wallet the lesson usually gets learned.

Miyamato wrote:
In this game, you actually have people saying people play EVE just to scam? You do know this is a game right?


The function of a game is to have fun right? If they get their fun scamming they are doing it right. Just because it's not your style of fun doesn't undo that. We are playing a sandbox game, agreed?

Miyamato wrote:
The money they make in game, from the scamming, has nothing to do with the real world? So why would someone actually start paying for a game just to scam people for no real reason?


Didn't we just establish that they are having their kind of fun?

Miyamato wrote:
That, in essence, is insane. I dunno. I'm mind blown tbh.


Just means you lack life experience. Live some, see the world and stop whining.

Miyamato wrote:
I think the people saying this stuff are the scammers themselves. Thats the only logical explanation.


And I think eve is not for you, please go away. Your logic fails, hard.

Sable's Ammo Shop at Alentene V - Moon 4 - Duvolle Labs Factory. Hybrid charges, Projectile ammo, Missiles, Drones, Ships, Need'em? We have'em, at affordable prices. Pop in at our Ammo Shop in sunny Alentene.
Miyamato
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#153 - 2012-01-15 21:49:45 UTC
Ispai Ponue wrote:
Miyamato wrote:
Brock Nelson wrote:
Exactly, and how do you expect lag to be fixed? It's been a problem ever since Eve first came out and it's been a problem for every multiplayer game that ever exist.


Well thats easy. Do not make the process lag dependant.

Make it where the trade has to be finalized and accepted on both ends, with no chance at alteration before the trade can actually be completed.

A simple final acceptance screen with the final trade showcased would be something that took a week of coding, probably alot less depending on the amount of people and would completely eliminate any chance of trade window scamming.

You see a screen pop up after both parties agree on the initial trade. The server scans the final trade and pops a message on both screens " You are about to initiate a trade with *player *. *Player* Offers XXXX Item. * You * Offer XXXX ISK/Item in return. Do you Accept?

When both parties hit the accept button, then the trade is finished. Not until then.

Very easy actually.


It's called " a contract" and to get there you click the contracts window or you can right click the item(s) and say, "create contract."


Then why have a trade window?

If there is a better alternative to something, usually the other alternative that is both buggy and prone to problems gets eliminated. Odd.
Ai Shun
#154 - 2012-01-15 21:54:20 UTC
Miyamato wrote:
Is that supposed to be a point?

I'm baffled to be honest. Like I said I have played dozens of MMO's and never once seen a community that is so .... blah .... about scamming.

Usually people complain about it, the devs fix the exploit or scamming method and everyone moves along. In this game, you actually have people saying people play EVE just to scam? You do know this is a game right? The money they make in game, from the scamming, has nothing to do with the real world? So why would someone actually start paying for a game just to scam people for no real reason?

That, in essence, is insane. I dunno. I'm mind blown tbh.

I think the people saying this stuff are the scammers themselves. Thats the only logical explanation.


Yes, it is. EVE is a brutal game and that is why some of us play it. I enjoy knowing that no matter what I do, somebody is out there to try and take my ISK and shiny ships from me. I enjoy knowing that when I have earned some ISK, I have done so because I've avoided the sharks, played the game well and triumphed. If I can take somebody else's ISK, I'll bask in the warm glow of knowing that on that occasion, I beat them at the market. Or I beat them at a Trade. It is PVP at all levels of the game.

Even when you sell the results of your mission running to the best Buy Order in the Agent Station, some person out there has done their market research, know they can buy it from you cheaply and resell it elsewhere for more profit. They have just won that round of PvP.

It is in all aspects of EVE Online. The constant danger, the constant threat and the satisfaction of actually beating your opponents. That is FUN! I am having a blast playing this game for those aspects. Like I enjoyed playing Trade Wars (BBS game) and others that came after it.

This is not World of Warcraft where we all hold hands in Stormwind and sell Linen Cloth on the Auction House and dance on the mailbox because we're wearing shiny purple clothes. This is a very different game by design and will attract a very different type of player.

And yet, you seem surprised that some of us enjoy this PvP game.

I'm surprised that you play it then, because it has been the core design principles of the game since the very beginning. It is what attracts players to it and, in part, contributes to the niche status the game has.

Why would you consider people playing a game and enjoying it within the design parameters of the game to be insane?

Wouldn't you rather think somebody that can't do that and still plays the game - willingly inflicting self harm - to be insane?
Ai Shun
#155 - 2012-01-15 22:02:28 UTC
Zarcan wrote:
Perhaps I shouldn't endorse you as I'm not too popular in this thread Straight haha, but indeed, I'm really astounded at how many people actively defend it. I understand its a part of the game, I understand CCP endorses it, I'll never understand why the players fight for it so adamantly.

From my perspective, it doesn't *have* to be this way, and we wouldn't be having this 8 page discussion if it were a black and white issue, as some people would have you believe.


You can understand it is part of the game?
You can understand it is endorsed by the developer, CCP?

But yet you cannot understand why players defend, do and like it?

Simple.

They are playing the game according to the way it is designed and built and enjoy it.

Scamming is a part of that. And yes, it has to be that way. If you want it another way, there are other games where it is not so rampant. I'm not playing them because I enjoy this.
Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#156 - 2012-01-15 22:06:10 UTC
Morganta wrote:
Zarcan wrote:
Seatox wrote:
The trade window is terrible, and vulnerable to sleight of hand - and you shouldn't use it for commerce.

What probably happened was they put in 95 million, then zeroed it *and then hit accept*, and you didn't notice them zeroing the value before you hit accept.

Use the contract system instead.


Nope, I'm aware of that tactic. The 95mil was there.

Feligast wrote:
and it's unlikely your petition would result in anything. Chalk it up as an eve lesson and get back at it.


Well this is unacceptable. That ship is worth 1/3 of my savings in the game, and I lost it due to poor game mechanics. I shouldn't be liable for unsatisfactory trade window code.


if you haven't been bankrupt by a scam or gank at least once, you haven't been playing EVE
They wont admit it, but everyone here has had it happen in some form or another at least once

This is very very true. I've been totally cleaned out both by scams (lookin' at you goons) and ganking. Granted... that was a good while ago... I always seem to learn the hard way but I do learn.

Signatures should be used responsibly...
Rented
Hunter Heavy Industries
#157 - 2012-01-15 22:20:53 UTC
Never been scammed, never will be.

Never ever use trade window for any serious transaction, no matter how many excuses they make. DO NOT DO IT.

JUST SAY NO TO DRUGS-errr-TRADE!
Doc Severide
Doomheim
#158 - 2012-01-15 22:48:20 UTC
Hijeri wrote:
Zarcan wrote:
Mekki Muvila wrote:
Your Domi fit sucks anyway


The Guristas disagree.


You think being able to kill rats enables you to judge whether a fit is good or not? That's freaking hilarious coming from someone like you, who's played this game for years. I can hop into an armor drake and do L4's. Just saying. I see ratters rat with the most stupid fits every day.

You'll do good staying in high sec for the rest of your life. Have fun with your mission running, basically the most boring thing you can do in this game along with mining. This is an MMO sandbox, and then you go and voluntarily grind your ass off doing the most mundane thing, as if you're playing World of Warcraft. Hilarious.

Agreed. The OP is clearly in the wrong game...
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#159 - 2012-01-15 22:49:18 UTC
Miyamato wrote:
Ispai Ponue wrote:
It's called " a contract" and to get there you click the contracts window or you can right click the item(s) and say, "create contract."

Then why have a trade window?

To quickly transfer things between trusted parties without any cost or setup.
Ispai Ponue
Chaos Delivery Systems
#160 - 2012-01-15 22:55:45 UTC
Miyamato wrote:
Ispai Ponue wrote:
Miyamato wrote:
Brock Nelson wrote:
Exactly, and how do you expect lag to be fixed? It's been a problem ever since Eve first came out and it's been a problem for every multiplayer game that ever exist.


Well thats easy. Do not make the process lag dependant.

Make it where the trade has to be finalized and accepted on both ends, with no chance at alteration before the trade can actually be completed.

A simple final acceptance screen with the final trade showcased would be something that took a week of coding, probably alot less depending on the amount of people and would completely eliminate any chance of trade window scamming.

You see a screen pop up after both parties agree on the initial trade. The server scans the final trade and pops a message on both screens " You are about to initiate a trade with *player *. *Player* Offers XXXX Item. * You * Offer XXXX ISK/Item in return. Do you Accept?

When both parties hit the accept button, then the trade is finished. Not until then.

Very easy actually.


It's called " a contract" and to get there you click the contracts window or you can right click the item(s) and say, "create contract."


Then why have a trade window?

If there is a better alternative to something, usually the other alternative that is both buggy and prone to problems gets eliminated. Odd.


So that you can do quick, free transactions with trusted people like gang members.

Really, you need to be told this??