These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Wormholes

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

new scanning user interface testing on sisi

First post First post
Author
Emma en Divalone
Quafe Forever
#61 - 2015-09-22 01:22:12 UTC
Thank you CCP for continuing to work on and improve the new scanning interface. I have not used previous iterations of the beta map so I cannot comment on the progression of changes but from what I’ve heard this is a marked improvement. Some comments I have on the new scanning interface as an avid explorer.


  1. The icon the displaying the status of the cosmic signature is the same size as the box to move the probes so when zoomed out it interferes will being able to move the probes around by the box
  2. When looking from a top down perspective, the shading of the arrows and box is almost too light to even see, darken the shading
  3. The center probe in the pinpoint formation’s icon makes it difficult to grab the box to move the probes. Possible to only have it display when you are holding ctrl?
  4. Having all of the probes displayed even when not pressing ctrl is very distracting. Possible to only have them display when you are holding ctrl?
  5. Center probe arrows bugs out, rapidly changes its orientation, when shrinking or expanding the probe centering using ctrl
  6. The tooltips are very large and intrusive to scanning
  7. Double clicking on item in scan results window has the signature centered to the left of the actual center of the center
  8. Would it be possible to leave in the ability to grab the edge of the probe spheres in order to shrink their size? It’s a big quality of life thing for somebody who scans so much daily in being able to do everything I need to do to scan with just the mouse
  9. When grabbing the arrows along the plane of the universe from a perpendicular angle, only see them side on, and try to move them, the probe move sporadically, not following the cursor
  10. The recentering on double clicking something is a bit too quick for my taste, if possible tune this down a touch
helana Tsero
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#62 - 2015-09-22 01:29:29 UTC
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
I dont appreciate that new scanning window pushes new icons on me. This was last straw.

-2 paying accounts.

https://gyazo.com/417ca44bc3a8399c702af46dd0b77605

The whole of this year was a waste of my time. Good bye.


Seeing as your quiting an all.. how bout helping a fellow wormholer out and depositing all your now useless ISK in my bank account ?

May BoB smile upon you.

"...ppl need to get out of caves and they will see something new.... thats where eve is placed... not in cave."  | zoonr-Korsairs |

Meanwhile Citadel release issues: "tried to bug report this and the bug report is bugged as well" | Rafeau |

Kalel Nimrott
Caldari Provisions
#63 - 2015-09-22 15:47:34 UTC
I want his stuff!

Bob Artis, you will be missed.

O7

Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#64 - 2015-09-22 17:32:15 UTC
I don't get it. We have new probe scanner window merged with solar system map. Why have second solar system map on star map level (beta map)? Zooming up solar system from star map level is impaired. Very bad at scalling, anoms merge into green ball. It's hard to tell were gates are leading in "crowded" constellations.
My 2 euros to new probe scanner.
I did only few scanns, it's better than before, still not good enough, definately a progess.

Probe scanner window in compact mode:
- recover, reconnect, destroy buttons are too small ( recover is second most using button here, it must be bigger);
- filtering still not enough accurate, I want to tell if system have ghost site or ore site without browsing 20 anoms;
- instead "disable compat mode button" I would prefer something like old probe scanner "map button";
- fast filter shortcuts (1-5), maybe 1-anoms, 2-sigs - most common use for filtering (there are not scan group tab at new probe scanner, it would be easier to filter them.

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville

Ransu Asanari
V0LTA
WE FORM V0LTA
#65 - 2015-09-23 14:39:46 UTC
Some new changes to the scanner on SiSi:

Holding ALT shows "cones" for each of the probes to be able to expand/contract the distribution multiple AU. While holding it down, the probe cube and arrows disappear. I like this cleaner look.

Holding CTRL shows "slider arrows" that let you slide the probes to manually compact at the current range. While holding it down, the probe cube and arrows disappear. I like this cleaner look. Also, thank you for getting rid of the blinding white overlap when trying to arrange individual probes.

Holding SHIFT shows the individual probe formation, and allows you to move them manually in formation. I'm glad this is still an option, as when we're trying to scan something extremely difficult down; like a Sleeper Cache site, moving individual probes is absolutely necessary to squeak it to 100%.


Couple suggestions/requests:


  • Not sure what happened with the recent change on SiSi, but I cant grab the blue probe distribution to expand/contract it at all anymore with just left-click/hold/drag anymore. Having to hold down ALT to shift the probes larger/smaller is very annoying, and doubles the APM, as I'm always snapping around the orientation while moving the entire formation and then shrinking/expanding the distance around the signature.

  • Can we change highlight color when we mouse over a probe or arrow? I'd prefer green or blue rather than red, but I'm sure others will have their preference.

  • The cube/cone/arrows for the probe formation, and the signature beacons themselves should scale down more as you zoom in. It still feels clunky with how large they are. It's not POS-module-anchoring-arrow-level-green-box huge, but it's still rather unwieldy.


Rex Noia
Merlins Online
#66 - 2015-09-23 21:08:02 UTC

  • When launching probes in a new system, the position arrows/box will appear in the location where they were last recalled. This can make them needlessly hard to find when scanning a small system after a big one such as Thera. Can the position controls appear in the place the probes are launched?(i.e. at the location of the scanning ship).

  • The RETURN key is fairly far from where hands rest while scanning (mouse/left side of the keyboard) . To minimize movement, SPACEBAR feels like a more comfortable shortcut. I guess this can be subjective so the ability to customize it would be ideal.

  • It would be great if you could allow resizing of the probe formation via ALT+mouse scroll, or ALT+drag. Having to click cones all the time is annoying.

  • This one has always been a problem (also in the old map): When moving your probe formation around, sometimes you might accidentally click one of the arrows that is facing you, displacing the whole thing hundreds of AU towards or away from you. Is it possible to hide these arrows that are on the axis you are looking from?

  • Very often the 'You are here' icon will incorrectly appear at the sun's location.

Thanks for the hard work!
Chance Ravinne
WiNGSPAN Delivery Services
WiNGSPAN Delivery Network
#67 - 2015-09-23 21:12:11 UTC


Rex Noia wrote:

  • When launching probes in a new system, the position arrows/box will appear in the location where they were last recalled. This can make them needlessly hard to find when scanning a small system after a big one such as Thera. Can the position controls appear in the place the probes are launched?(i.e. at the location of the scanning ship).

  • The RETURN key is fairly far from where hands rest while scanning (mouse/left side of the keyboard) . To minimize movement, SPACEBAR feels like a more comfortable shortcut. I guess this can be subjective so the ability to customize it would be ideal.

  • It would be great if you could allow resizing of the probe formation via ALT+mouse scroll, or ALT+drag. Having to click cones all the time is annoying.

  • This one has always been a problem (also in the old map): When moving your probe formation around, sometimes you might accidentally click one of the arrows that is facing you, displacing the whole thing hundreds of AU towards or away from you. Is it possible to hide these arrows that are on the axis you are looking from?

  • Very often the 'You are here' icon will incorrectly appear at the sun's location.

Thanks for the hard work!


Great points. If center on ship probes can't happen, can they at least center on the sun? Something predictable?

You've just read another awesome post by Chance Ravinne, CEO of EVE's #1 torpedo delivery service. Watch our misadventures on my YouTube channel: WINGSPANTT

Zappity
Kurved Trading
#68 - 2015-09-23 22:38:19 UTC
I seem to recall that the lack of a 'centre on me' option was deliberate to increase the time required to probe on grid. It would be much better if there was a different solution, though. Perhaps probe time should be doubled if on grid or something.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.

motie one
Secret Passage
#69 - 2015-09-24 16:02:17 UTC  |  Edited by: motie one
Emma en Divalone wrote:
Thank you CCP for continuing to work on and improve the new scanning interface. I have not used previous iterations of the beta map so I cannot comment on the progression of changes but from what I’ve heard this is a marked improvement. Some comments I have on the new scanning interface as an avid explorer.


  1. The icon the displaying the status of the cosmic signature is the same size as the box to move the probes so when zoomed out it interferes will being able to move the probes around by the box
  2. When looking from a top down perspective, the shading of the arrows and box is almost too light to even see, darken the shading
  3. The center probe in the pinpoint formation’s icon makes it difficult to grab the box to move the probes. Possible to only have it display when you are holding ctrl?
  4. Having all of the probes displayed even when not pressing ctrl is very distracting. Possible to only have them display when you are holding ctrl?
  5. Center probe arrows bugs out, rapidly changes its orientation, when shrinking or expanding the probe centering using ctrl
  6. The tooltips are very large and intrusive to scanning
  7. Double clicking on item in scan results window has the signature centered to the left of the actual center of the center
  8. Would it be possible to leave in the ability to grab the edge of the probe spheres in order to shrink their size? It’s a big quality of life thing for somebody who scans so much daily in being able to do everything I need to do to scan with just the mouse
  9. When grabbing the arrows along the plane of the universe from a perpendicular angle, only see them side on, and try to move them, the probe move sporadically, not following the cursor
  10. The recentering on double clicking something is a bit too quick for my taste, if possible tune this down a touch



Yes dragging the probe sphere to reduce, is essential, currently as tested it turns scanning from a one handed task to requiring both hands. I want to be able to drink my coffee!
Alundil
Rolled Out
#70 - 2015-09-24 16:18:31 UTC
Quesa wrote:
Hey guys, good changes so far.

One of my biggest issues with the current probing system is the ability to accidentally grab the wrong axis. So, if you're looking down on the probes, you are still able to click and drag on the UP arrow. Given the perspective at the time, the most minute movements will throw the probes very far out of view and very difficult to bring them back into the view. Most of the time this results in having to recall and re-deploy probes.

Better illustration:

If you can see it here: http://i.imgur.com/Gf3dVwk.jpg. This shows me looking down on the probes and dragging using the up arrow. Now, from this view, this http://i.imgur.com/HO284Jf.png shows me looking strait down, in an attempt to move the probes along the x and z axis but still able to click and hold the y axis. Keep in mind that this is me having the window open to almost full screen and zoomed in close the the probes. Think of this issue when speed of scanning has consequences and you are zoomed out with other markers on the screen and trying to move the probes around a system, if you then grab the y axis, you're in big trouble, like here http://i.imgur.com/LdrcFsO.png. Now, look at the previous picture and then this http://i.imgur.com/c7BEsYc.png notice how short of distance the mouse was moved to the left, this resulted in the probes ending up so far up that they cannot be seen or moved without completely zooming out of the solar system, like here http://i.imgur.com/PrCGaSh.png.

Excellent points + illustration. This is a issue in the old map as well. It would be fantastic if it were possible to resolve (or at least tone it down) this issue.

I'm right behind you

Alundil
Rolled Out
#71 - 2015-09-24 16:20:13 UTC
Zappity wrote:
I seem to recall that the lack of a 'centre on me' option was deliberate to increase the time required to probe on grid. It would be much better if there was a different solution, though. Perhaps probe time should be doubled if on grid or something.

That is my recollection as well. It was argued that "combat scanning" was too fast due to the probes being centered on you at the start of the scan. This was one of the reasons (in Odyssey iirc) that it was changed to start arranged on the sun to force a little more time and manipulation of the probes.

I'm right behind you

Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#72 - 2015-09-25 06:34:47 UTC
Can we have this as beta feature on Tranquility?

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville

Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
Masters of Flying Objects
#73 - 2015-09-26 04:05:50 UTC
CCP Goliath wrote:
Heyyyy you guyyys,

So, first off on behalf of Team Psycho Sisters, thanks so much for all of this feedback. We've got lots of it from here, reddit, survey, anecdotes, and Corbexx has some more for us too that he's been gathering through his channels. In the spirit of iteration, we thought we'd share some of the inital changes that have been made to the new interface based on the feedback. Please note that this list, while comprehensive of changes that have already been made, is not indicative of the final shape of the product and we are absolutely looking for an ongoing discussion so that we can deliver a scanning interface we can all be proud of and have fun using.

Before I give you the list though, I wanted to let you know about my own EVE background. I started playing in 2010 and did the oh-so-familiar train-mine-quit cycle. Came back with a friend a few weeks later, hooked up with other friends that had been playing for a while, did some missioning until that got old and then it was off to wormhole space! I've lived out of C1-4 holes, never a 5 or 6, since then (barring a brief sojourn into FW, which was fun but lacked the awesome dread that WH space imparts to me - and I'm not talking Moros). I do a ton of scanning, mainly sigs but a fair bit of combat too, so I have a lot of attachment to the scanning system, though who knows - I may use it in totally different ways to many of you. From reading this thread alone, it is clear that scanning styles and use cases vary wildly and that's one of the reasons it's so important to the team to have this discourse and iron out discrepancies.

Anyway, enough about me! Here are the changes made so far, in no particular order, based on your feedback. The new interface has been re-enabled again on Singularity, available via Ctrl-Click on the existing Probe Scanner button. Give it another go and let us know how you feel!

- Reverted probe position controls to the old one
- Removed experimental alt-click probe positioning
- Fixed position update on probe markers on init and probe warp
- Tweaked colors of probes and scene, removed starfield
- Added sun marker filter (applies to all new maps)
- Changed appearance and behaviour of probe move/scale controls
- Visibility of scan result in 3D scene reflects selection state of result list
- Decreased min size of probe scan window
- Made standard filters toggleable through 1,2,3,4,5 keys (this only works when the window is active and does not overwrite other bindings, and cannot be rebound)
- Added distance on celesital and scan result markers (applies to map as well)
- Made it possible to scan by hitting RETURN when window has focus
- Added smaller "No probes deployed" hint so its visible if the probes menu is at its min size
- Making ignored result clickable to reset the state, changed icon to X
- Adding help icon explaining probe position modifier keys
- Change Range only accessible while pressing ALT
- Added menu icon on filtered and ignored status texts
- Added support for configurable min height in DockPanelMenu allowing probe menu to be resized to one entry
- Tweaked fadeout distance on bookmark markers (applies to map as well)
- Synced the tooltip delay to inflight-bracket tooltip delay
- Added camera center offset to mapview camera
- Fixed spots in 3D scene for planets and moons
- cleaned up scan result entry
- Unified probe, intersection, warpline, movement line colors
- Added map backdrop
- Removed probe status in probelist
- Dimmed the starfield
- Polished icons on formation and probe buttons
- Tweaked appearance of menu resize handles
- Tweaked the layout so all controls are in the sidepanel
- Re-enabled the new pTrobe scan window by CTRL-Click probescan button
- Implemented highlight indication on probes and results





These changes are not in the patch notes.

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.

CCP Goliath
C C P
C C P Alliance
#74 - 2015-09-28 10:45:16 UTC
Salpun wrote:
CCP Goliath wrote:
Heyyyy you guyyys,

So, first off on behalf of Team Psycho Sisters, thanks so much for all of this feedback. We've got lots of it from here, reddit, survey, anecdotes, and Corbexx has some more for us too that he's been gathering through his channels. In the spirit of iteration, we thought we'd share some of the inital changes that have been made to the new interface based on the feedback. Please note that this list, while comprehensive of changes that have already been made, is not indicative of the final shape of the product and we are absolutely looking for an ongoing discussion so that we can deliver a scanning interface we can all be proud of and have fun using.

Before I give you the list though, I wanted to let you know about my own EVE background. I started playing in 2010 and did the oh-so-familiar train-mine-quit cycle. Came back with a friend a few weeks later, hooked up with other friends that had been playing for a while, did some missioning until that got old and then it was off to wormhole space! I've lived out of C1-4 holes, never a 5 or 6, since then (barring a brief sojourn into FW, which was fun but lacked the awesome dread that WH space imparts to me - and I'm not talking Moros). I do a ton of scanning, mainly sigs but a fair bit of combat too, so I have a lot of attachment to the scanning system, though who knows - I may use it in totally different ways to many of you. From reading this thread alone, it is clear that scanning styles and use cases vary wildly and that's one of the reasons it's so important to the team to have this discourse and iron out discrepancies.

Anyway, enough about me! Here are the changes made so far, in no particular order, based on your feedback. The new interface has been re-enabled again on Singularity, available via Ctrl-Click on the existing Probe Scanner button. Give it another go and let us know how you feel!

- Reverted probe position controls to the old one
- Removed experimental alt-click probe positioning
- Fixed position update on probe markers on init and probe warp
- Tweaked colors of probes and scene, removed starfield
- Added sun marker filter (applies to all new maps)
- Changed appearance and behaviour of probe move/scale controls
- Visibility of scan result in 3D scene reflects selection state of result list
- Decreased min size of probe scan window
- Made standard filters toggleable through 1,2,3,4,5 keys (this only works when the window is active and does not overwrite other bindings, and cannot be rebound)
- Added distance on celesital and scan result markers (applies to map as well)
- Made it possible to scan by hitting RETURN when window has focus
- Added smaller "No probes deployed" hint so its visible if the probes menu is at its min size
- Making ignored result clickable to reset the state, changed icon to X
- Adding help icon explaining probe position modifier keys
- Change Range only accessible while pressing ALT
- Added menu icon on filtered and ignored status texts
- Added support for configurable min height in DockPanelMenu allowing probe menu to be resized to one entry
- Tweaked fadeout distance on bookmark markers (applies to map as well)
- Synced the tooltip delay to inflight-bracket tooltip delay
- Added camera center offset to mapview camera
- Fixed spots in 3D scene for planets and moons
- cleaned up scan result entry
- Unified probe, intersection, warpline, movement line colors
- Added map backdrop
- Removed probe status in probelist
- Dimmed the starfield
- Polished icons on formation and probe buttons
- Tweaked appearance of menu resize handles
- Tweaked the layout so all controls are in the sidepanel
- Re-enabled the new pTrobe scan window by CTRL-Click probescan button
- Implemented highlight indication on probes and results





These changes are not in the patch notes.


As I've explained before, this isn't a feature getting released tomorrow.

CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath

Ezio Dicostanzo
Out of Focus
Odin's Call
#75 - 2015-09-28 13:46:43 UTC
then why is it announced on http://updates.eveonline.com/ ???
Darkblad
Doomheim
#76 - 2015-09-28 13:47:11 UTC
CCP Goliath wrote:
As I've explained before, this isn't a feature getting released tomorrow.
So we better not rely on
updates.eveonline.com

NPEISDRIP

Captain StringfellowHawk
Forsaken Reavers
#77 - 2015-09-28 15:01:05 UTC
Darkblad wrote:
CCP Goliath wrote:
As I've explained before, this isn't a feature getting released tomorrow.
So we better not rely on
updates.eveonline.com



You guys are terrible and should feel terrible. Your getting a new MAP for scanning that's integrated into the probing screen. These mechanics are not part of it, nor listed on the probe map changes on the updates.eve site. LEARN TO READ.

Posting should be handled like construction

Read twice (at least), post once.
CCP Goliath
C C P
C C P Alliance
#78 - 2015-09-29 13:40:36 UTC
The card got on to the site due to miscommunication between departments, sorry for the inconveniece. Ideally we are aiming for a point release in the next few weeks, but only once we and you are happy with it.

CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath

Darkblad
Doomheim
#79 - 2015-09-29 14:40:37 UTC
Captain StringfellowHawk wrote:
Read twice (at least), post once.
Read what you quoted twice and try to find where I refer to anything different than irritating ways of (new feature) communication, thank you.

CCP Goliath wrote:
The card got on to the site due to miscommunication between departments, sorry for the inconveniece. Ideally we are aiming for a point release in the next few weeks, but only once we and you are happy with it.
No harm done, I see this not-yet-feature already available on TQ as an advantage. Like the New map we have the opportunity and choice to test drive the current state and provide feedback that will sure result in a feature that also those not on sisi can count on.

Almost like an unintended opt-in checkbox. Blink

NPEISDRIP

Ransu Asanari
V0LTA
WE FORM V0LTA
#80 - 2015-09-29 17:33:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Ransu Asanari
CCP Goliath wrote:
The card got on to the site due to miscommunication between departments, sorry for the inconveniece. Ideally we are aiming for a point release in the next few weeks, but only once we and you are happy with it.


The scanning interface is available on TQ via the CTRL+Probe Scanner hotkey.

So it's live right now. If that wasn't intentional, I'll put it in the Vanguard issues thread.

In the meantime, I'm happy to continue using on it TQ and provide more feedback.