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new scanning user interface testing on sisi

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KPomgPL
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#81 - 2015-09-29 18:13:40 UTC
Gave another chance to new map on sisi. It is better but still useless.

Minimal fixes to improve usability:
1) markers and signatures should not overlap box with arrows - can't move probes because of this,
2) map animation should draw faster - especially while changing angle by moving mouse horizontally and vertically,
3) in fullscreen mode map should be on fullscreen - like current map - not in a box,
4) there should be an option to hide all markers at once -had to hide them because overlapping mentioned in point #1.

Use cases for testers:
1) Try to tackle rewarping battleship with use: T2 frig, combat probes and new map ;) ,
2) Try to find c6 wh in chain starting from Thera (write your time and repeat next day),
3) Try to scan all signatures in random c6 wh on sisi at least (40 signatures) (write your time and repeat next day - or jump to static and scan it) - it should take max 1-1,5 min per signature on skills lvl4.

All above use cases should make positive experience !




Bad Intentions Inc. is recruiting [C5/5 Wormhole]
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#82 - 2015-09-29 20:27:52 UTC
Ransu Asanari wrote:
The scanning interface is available on TQ via the CTRL+Probe Scanner hotkey.

So it's live right now. If that wasn't intentional, I'll put it in the Vanguard issues thread.

In the meantime, I'm happy to continue using on it TQ and provide more feedback.

Don't remove it from TQ please, it's better to test it that way.

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville
CCP Goliath
C C P
C C P Alliance
#83 - 2015-09-30 09:17:19 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Goliath
Jeremiah Saken wrote:
Ransu Asanari wrote:
The scanning interface is available on TQ via the CTRL+Probe Scanner hotkey.

So it's live right now. If that wasn't intentional, I'll put it in the Vanguard issues thread.

In the meantime, I'm happy to continue using on it TQ and provide more feedback.

Don't remove it from TQ please, it's better to test it that way.


We can't push our latest changes to TQ, so we are going to disable it in today's update (miscommunication caused it to ship, but that's no bad thing necessarily since it doesn't break anything that existed before). This way we can always be assured of feedback on the absolute freshest iteration of the interface. I get the convenience of testing on TQ, and for the results to feel more representative, but the cost of not having our latest changes is too high, and we are changing things too fast to properly ensure quality in surrounding features, which we need to worry about less in staging. Once the feature is good from a usability and visual standpoint, we will optimise it and get it ready for production.

CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath
Andrew Jester
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#84 - 2015-09-30 12:57:35 UTC
would you say you're being agile

If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy
CCP Goliath
C C P
C C P Alliance
#85 - 2015-09-30 16:12:11 UTC
Singularity will be running the Brain In A Box sandbox for the next while, so while that is ongoing we ask for no further feedback on the scanning interface. We hope to be back with fresh changes and to get more feedback once the testing of BIAB has been satisfactorily resolved.

CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath
Cara Forelli
State War Academy
Caldari State
#86 - 2015-09-30 20:41:03 UTC
The new map must have dscan

Probe improvements are great, but I will never switch to the new map until I can use it to dscan. It is very important to me and anyone else who does a lot of scouting.

Want to talk? Join my channel in game: House Forelli

Titan's Lament
helana Tsero
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#87 - 2015-09-30 22:36:47 UTC
I really dislike the new badges for planets, sun etc that appear above their actual location. It takes up too much space.

Cant we just have the same system as the old map where you clicked on a small dot and it showed the planet and its au distance from your ship.

That system was great, minimal clutter and effective.

While I appreciate the effort that has gone into this I honestly Ifeel like your trying to reinvente the wheel here with this new map for 'reasons'.

I would be totaly happy with giving the old map a resize fucntion and a transperency slider.
- Transperency slider so those who want the background black can have it so and those who want the background of the actual solar system are also catered for.
- Resize cause being able to scan using only 1/3 of your screen is great.

"...ppl need to get out of caves and they will see something new.... thats where eve is placed... not in cave."  | zoonr-Korsairs |

Meanwhile Citadel release issues: "tried to bug report this and the bug report is bugged as well" | Rafeau |
Manssell
OmiHyperMultiNationalDrunksConglomerate
#88 - 2015-10-02 21:03:55 UTC
Unless I'm missing something you can not center on your probes just by clicking on the 'box' at the centre of the formation. This makes it rather hard to go from one sig to another if they are on different ends of a system once you move your box for the next scan.
CCP Goliath
C C P
C C P Alliance
#89 - 2015-10-05 10:18:51 UTC
Temp locking this for now until we have a testable version available somewhere. Please see my post above regarding feedback when there is no testable version available.

CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath
CCP Goliath
C C P
C C P Alliance
#90 - 2015-10-08 14:30:03 UTC
And we're back! Put on your reading pants.

Hi Scanning Fans,

Goliath and Psycho Sisters here, blasting out of our pizza comas with another wave of updates to our new scanning tool. After some technical rejiggering, we’ve moved the latest version of the interface into the Brain in a Box sandbox, which is currently on Singularity. Although we still plan on releasing the interface when we deem it ready, the test server needs of BIAB meant we had no other way to get you our latest work without joining up with them, so don’t assume our release plans have changed. The system is isolated enough to test without impacting BIAB, so we don’t have a ton of concerns there.
So, what’s new? Well, before we get into the new, let’s do a quick round of catch-up for people that might be hearing about this for the first time.

So, first off, the new scanning interface can be accessed by Ctrl-Clicking the Probe Scanner button. This will pop up the new probe scanner window. To access the now decoupled Solar System map, simply click on the Solar System Map button in the new probe scanner window. Note that this is not the final implementation of how you will access these features, just the hacky way we have implemented right now so we can test the systems side by side.

These annotated pictures will give you an idea of where certain buttons and commands are in the new system: http://imgur.com/a/dzvji

Our goals for this feature are very simple:
- Don’t wreck existing functionality
- Make the scanning interface look and feel better than it currently does
- Make quality of life improvements to scanning in general, within the boundaries of UI/UX

We’ve had plenty of feedback from you in the form of posts in various places, surveys, EVEmails, CSM-relayed info and chats on the test server. We still aren’t done talking to you though! With each wave of changes, new dynamics enter play and new priorities take hold as we see how you react, so even if you were happy with the changes before and have nothing more to say on the matter – please keep trying it and telling us! Similarly, if you had issues with the current system, the beta map scanner interface, or this new interface in whatever iteration you tested, please come to us with your concerns in a balanced, constructive manner and they will be heard and addressed.

We’ve also made some changes to the Directional Scanner. As you can see in the album, we have moved some stuff around, and added a button to bring up the new solar system map. We also, as Seagull discussed last week, made the D-scan visually represented in the Solar System map. This was some functionality that had partially existed in the F11 map, but since it was only in 2D it didn’t really tick all the boxes. The most major change that you may not know about is that you can now, via the radial menu in the solar system map, focus on a target to D-Scan, such as a celestial you think your target might be hiding near. Unfortunately, as a consequence of doing this, we broke D-scan a little bit, so while it follows your in-space camera as it always did, it doesn’t work properly in the solar system map at the moment… Our bad! That’s what test servers are for. We hope that D-scanning will be fully functional in one of our updates early next week.

Changes in this iteration: (for past changes, please see my post here https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6042856#post6042856)

- Changed markers so they are more in line with inflight brackets
- Enabled radial menu on markers
- Changed marker overlap menu so it’s more in line with inflight bracket menu
- Created a Solar System map window that will serve probes and D-scan and possibly other use cases in the future. This View is dockable like the beta map
- Making the result list fill available space in the window instead of being resizeable
- Linking range circle to tactical overlay state
- Moved Recover button to main button row
- Changed probes and result menus to be expanded by default
- Adding drop-down on Ignored Result listing individual entry
- Changed copy data on result entries as it is in old probe window (for pasting into Siggy and such)
- Created new D-Scan window using standalone solar system view (currently only supporting target based D-scan through radial menu, this is a known issue). Accessible via Ctrl-Clicking D-scan button.
- Added radial menu functionality to D-scan celestials/targets from solar system map.

Coming (hopefully) tomorrow (9th October):
- Hiding formation move-control while scanning
- Adding Group name in result list
- Hooking up MouseWheel for probe scan range and formation spread (Ctrl/Alt key modifiers)
- Added commands for Refresh Probe Scan, Refresh Directional Scan, In/Decrease Scan Range (No default mapping yet)

If you’re reading the last one thinking “does he mean that there will be a d-scan hotkey?”, then the answer is yes. We will be adding a mappable hotkey that, when pressed, should bring up the Dscan window if it isn’t open, and scan with it if it is open. The scanning frequency time has not changed – the 2sec window still applies, but hopefully this will mitigate some of the relentless precise clicking that players, particularly wormhole dwellers like myself, have had to endure to be safe.

CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath
TurboX3
Pulling The Plug
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#91 - 2015-10-08 15:12:39 UTC
Reddit post too --> Here
Naughty Cargo
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#92 - 2015-10-08 15:40:25 UTC
Hotkeeeyyyyyyyyyyyyyy YES!!!!!!! :D :D :D
Masao Kurata
Perkone
Caldari State
#93 - 2015-10-08 16:14:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Masao Kurata
This will be my initial impressions of the new scanning interface because I literally did not understand how to access it during the first round of testing. (Oh ctrl-click THAT button. You mean people use that button?)

Although it's not the first thing I did, d-scan: Ummmmm.... I'm not sure you understand how we use dscan on the solar system map. We're not looking just to dscan celestials, we have to dscan completely arbitrary space away from celestials. Free dscan control is completely necessary for combat scanners, not just a radial menu option on celestials.

So, the very first thing I did was launch probes in a saved formation then open the map and.... where's my handle for the probes? This hasn't happened every time, but sometimes the handle's just absent. I'd bug report this but I'm having trouble reproducing it, it happened again at random but I can't do it on demand. It does however remind me of a feature request: please let us move probe handles for the next scan while doing the current scan.

Could you swap alt and ctrl? I don't think this is just consistency for users of the old system, alt is normally used for translation while ctrl is more normally used for resizing in other applications, so as well as being an unnecessary change I think it's generally confusing this way round. Also I feel like there's no need to grab such small handles for size steps when you have to hold a modifier (currently alt, hopefully ctrl) to perform the action. Why does it need to be fiddly if it's already unambiguous? For that matter, why does it need to be mouse based at all for size steps? It's not an analogue operation, if we have to use a modifier why not go the whole way and make it a keyboard shortcut for step up and step down? The handle size complaint is also applicable to controlling the spacing of the formation (currently ctrl, hopefully back to alt) to a lesser degree.

EDIT: Just noticed that those shortcuts are already in development. The complaint about the handle size still stands.

I'm not sure what the point of scan result strengths on fixed celestials is meant to be, it's clutter. On a related note, hiding brackets when another bracket comes in front feels very distracting when moving the camera (which incidentally feels sluggish for a reason I can't put my finger on, maybe just a low frame rate.)

This is probably something it's possible to get used to but the narrow scan strength bars under the results initially are processed as being BETWEEN results, making them ambiguous. I'm not sure what's wrong with the old system for this, which is unambiguous and intuitive.

Destroy probes feels poorly placed but there's a confirmation dialog so I'm not sure it's actually an issue.

On the bright side I like the new system for custom formation launching, one click for any formation is a vast improvement. This is something that has irked me for a long time about the current implementation but I didn't complain about because I wasn't sure how it could be done better, and I just lived with sometimes using the wrong formation because I misremembered which I used last. The list on hover is perfect.

The filter system... hmm. I like the concept but it has practicality issues. For casual use the predefined 5 sets with keyboard shorts are nice but when you use the keyboard shortcuts you can't see what you have selected. Since there are only 5 predefined sets, please add a row of icons in the header which you can grey out, there is plenty of room. Selecting a specific user filter requires toggling everything currently selected to off then selecting that filter, very slow, too much clicking, we need a fast way to deselect everything as a minimum. User defined shortcuts for filtering states would be nice.
MuraSaki Siki
ChuangShi
Fraternity.
#94 - 2015-10-08 16:26:16 UTC
just a quick check of the D-scan in New map.

i see the red cone would not move around as i move the camera, and i can only D-scan those celestial object, beacon instead off all direction.
it seems to be what it stated "broken", hope it will be fix :D
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#95 - 2015-10-08 21:56:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Bienator II
i just tested the latest version and was very impressed, amazing work.

here a few things which could be improved/or things i did not like
- the new dscan window looks cool but you swapped angle with range and the descan button moved from right to left, please don't do that :P
- the dscan visualization in the map is awesome but the fade-in makes it difficult to see where it is actually coming from ( http://i.imgur.com/3oTCYT6.png ) if you remove the fade in it would be easier to read


regarding the probes and the cube for interacting with them
- the color coding is great and the trick where you block cube movement if the angle is to steep is also awesome. I actually wanted to write that down as a suggestion but after testing it i saw you already implemented it - great job

selecting things on the map while scanning
- using the cube can be a bit annoying if many objects are close to it ( http://i.imgur.com/7DfvmuI.png ), have you tried to make it so that the cube would cover everything behind it and it would be impossible to select it while it is above it while zoomed out? To select something all a player would have to do is to zoom in
or: give us a modifier key which when held down would only let us interact with the cube, not with the rest of the map.

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#96 - 2015-10-08 22:01:29 UTC
Quote:
We're not looking just to dscan celestials, we have to dscan completely arbitrary space away from celestials. Free dscan control is completely necessary for combat scanners, not just a radial menu option on celestials.

^quoting this for truth. this is not optional.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
Johnny Splunk
EvE-Scout
EvE-Scout Enclave
#97 - 2015-10-08 23:46:28 UTC
It's mentioned that these latest changes will be ready around 10/9. When will they be on SISI?
helana Tsero
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#98 - 2015-10-09 00:53:15 UTC  |  Edited by: helana Tsero
Great work ccp. The latest changes are much much better.

- I like how the probe and sig strength information is now back in one window instead of duplicated across two windows.
- the arrows and other indicators showing probe distance and movement are much appreciated.
- the floating tool tips/icons on planets etc now look much cleaner.
- direct link to solar system map on probe scanner window is great.
- love how recall probe button is now far away from the scan button.
- I like the ability to use the radial menu to focus dscan on a BM/sig/celestial etc. (but ability for random area of space dscan still needed - see below)
- love the resizable solar system map. background of the map is cool and not distracting.

Room for improvement
- as others have mentioned the white arrows that we use to move probes around are too small. (I play on 90% font). The resize probe arrows are also quite small. Please make them bigger. Also the probe result red dot (centre) is quite small.

- Can you make the colour of windows have a transparency slider or reduce the areas of the probe scanner/ dscan windows that have colour. Because currently the colour is quite distracting. (depending on what overall ui colour scheme a player chooses)

- Scan button doesn't need its own separate colour.

- Dscan cone needs to be repositionable to any area of space. not just celestial/probe results. As often before you do a combat probe scan you will use dscan to approximate a targets position before launching probes +other uses.

- I do find the 'you are here' target crosshair icon wrongly positioned. Because when you zoom out the icon is not actually where you are. But could be several AU 'above' where your ship is located. Maybe replace crosshair icon with a small purple circle (transparent fill) that will show through even with a another icon on top of it.

- ability to toggle on/off the red dscan cone / sphere would be nice. As some people HS explorers etc probably wont ever use dscan. (although they should Twisted )

"...ppl need to get out of caves and they will see something new.... thats where eve is placed... not in cave."  | zoonr-Korsairs |

Meanwhile Citadel release issues: "tried to bug report this and the bug report is bugged as well" | Rafeau |
RZN
Primary Hive Cluster
#99 - 2015-10-09 00:56:25 UTC
Amazing work!

Would it be possible to add and remove headers from the scan result list?

I would really like to be able to sort results by Group or Type. This makes bookmarking much easier and reduces mistakes.




P.S.
Unrelated but has been bugging me for a while. Is there any chance of you guys getting all these awesome threads linked in one place for those of us that do not reddit? I would think the update site would be the best place but i couldn't even find a link to the beta launcher on it .
Lavayar
Haidamaky
UA Fleets
#100 - 2015-10-09 06:39:20 UTC
Awesome!