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new scanning user interface testing on sisi

First post First post
Author
Viggo Konstanin
Mecha Enterprises Fleet
Federation Uprising
#121 - 2015-10-09 21:54:19 UTC
Tipa Riot wrote:
Just read about the hotkey for d-scan ... you realize that this is not a QoL change but a re-balancing?

Why?

As a hunter I'm relying to an extend on the prey's d-scan laziness or distraction by other activities. For example today I have to interrupt a hacking activity in order to move my mouse to the dscan button, with the hotkey I can just continue hacking while "automatically" pushing the d-scan key with my other hand every 2s. You remove a very important decision, do I continue my activity or should I interrupt to d-scan. With the introduction of a hotkey you make New Eden safer for the lazy Ugh ...IMO d-scan should remain an active manual "ping" and decision to do so with a tradeoff.


I agree, and I am usually the guy scanning, not hunting.

It promotes poor gameplay and laziness.

The reward for getting the loot from the cans should derive from you being better than the hunter, not better than the trivial can maze.
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
SLYCE Pirates
#122 - 2015-10-10 03:33:58 UTC
The last build broke it. No way to move probes from inside the new map.

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.

Potamus Jenkins
eXceed Inc.
Plucky Adventurers
#123 - 2015-10-10 03:43:06 UTC
as a person that has spent more hours scanning than id like to quantify, i appreciate both the devs and the community giving great feedback in this post.
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#124 - 2015-10-10 05:28:47 UTC
hotkey for d-scan.

No one, and i mean absolutely no one, would abuse that with a key macro. Nope. No way at all would your Hulks and mackinaws auto warp if your d-scan or probe scan showed any change. Nosiree Bob.

Greenlight that change, Fozzie.
helana Tsero
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#125 - 2015-10-10 07:42:25 UTC  |  Edited by: helana Tsero
Trinkets friend wrote:
hotkey for d-scan.

No one, and i mean absolutely no one, would abuse that with a key macro. Nope. No way at all would your Hulks and mackinaws auto warp if your d-scan or probe scan showed any change. Nosiree Bob.

Greenlight that change, Fozzie.


I get ur point.

However I am tired of mashing dscan both in pve and pvp. Perhaps instead of the hotkey which will for sure be macroed we could have one click equals 30 or 60 seconds of DScan. Would stop the endless clicking but still ensure people have to click dscan regulary to get forewarning of unexpected visitors dropping in.

"...ppl need to get out of caves and they will see something new.... thats where eve is placed... not in cave."  | zoonr-Korsairs |

Meanwhile Citadel release issues: "tried to bug report this and the bug report is bugged as well" | Rafeau |

helana Tsero
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#126 - 2015-10-10 07:51:32 UTC  |  Edited by: helana Tsero
CCP Goliath wrote:


I don't really understand the Dscan toggle use case? It's only visible when the D-scan window is open.


I have solar system map resized window open now and Im using the probe scan window. the DSCAN sphere is still showing. I do have both DSCAN and the Probe Scanner windows tabbed together the same as I do on tranquility. So even though DSCAN is not my 'active' tab maybe the game interprets it as being open.

My point is that with the DSCAN sphere and unscanned red sigs spheres both on screen it can get confusing which is which.

Perhaps another colour for the DSCAN sphere and does it really need a fill when in 360 degree scan mode ? The fill is distracting as alot of people will have that resizable solar system map open all the time now, tucked into a corner.. its distracting to see out of the corner of your eye a large red sphere moving as you traverse the solar system

Also..

You really don't need the giant "no scan result' letters when no sig is found. Less UI is better UI. Careful in the rush to improve the dscan/probe interfaces ur not adding more ui or bigger ui for the sake of it. The previous scan window small and unobtrusive 'no scan result' lettering was fine.

Same point with the extra colour you guys have added to the horizontal bars in the new scan and probe windows. Its not necessary and just distracts from the beauty of space.

"...ppl need to get out of caves and they will see something new.... thats where eve is placed... not in cave."  | zoonr-Korsairs |

Meanwhile Citadel release issues: "tried to bug report this and the bug report is bugged as well" | Rafeau |

Aivlis Eldelbar
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#127 - 2015-10-10 11:40:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Aivlis Eldelbar
CCP Goliath wrote:
"hiding brackets when another bracket comes in front feels very distracting when moving the camera" - could you show me a picture or video of what you mean? I might just be uncaffeinated at the moment, but I'm having major problems trying to visualise that. Destroy probes got moved as a direct response to a lot of feedback, so it's probably going to stay there.

Using the keyboard shortcuts would be considered an advanced move, at which point we would assume you know what you're doing. I think the last thing the window needs is more information to care about all the time. The latter point on the user created filter is really nice though, will bring that up. Sounds like a defect actually.



I think what he means is that, as you move the camera and different markers align with one another, they "snap" into or out of a stack of grouped markers, and the effect is kinda weird, like crickets jumping all over the map once you have enough signatures and anoms in system.

On the topic of keyboard shortcuts, it seems you moved the signature list out of the map window, which is odd, as they now compete for screen real estate. I personally though that having the list in the map window was a great solution if you then made the map side collapsible. There aren't that many scenarios where you'd want your probe controls open and the map closed.

It also leads into my main comment: moving probes n the map now unfocuses the probe control window, and hitting enter thus no longer works unless you click on it first, defeating the point. Any chance this change might be reverted back to the combined window?
Chance Ravinne
WiNGSPAN Delivery Services
WiNGSPAN Delivery Network
#128 - 2015-10-10 11:44:27 UTC
Aivlis Eldelbar wrote:
[quote=CCP Goliath]On the topic of keyboard shortcuts, it seems you moved the signature list out of the map window, which is odd, as they now compete for screen real estate. I personally though that having the list in the map window was a great solution if you then made the map side collapsible. There aren't that many scenarios where you'd want your probe controls open and the map closed.

It also leads into my main comment: moving probes n the map now unfocuses the probe control window, and hitting enter thus no longer works unless you click on it first, defeating the point. Any chance this change might be reverted back to the combined window?


Assuming I understand what you're saying, there are several instances you would want signatures separate from the map.

If you are in a wormhole system (or really any system), having that open allows you to monitor the opening and collapsing of wormholes.

If you are doing exploration, it is useful as you jump system to system to be able to quickly see if there are any signatures there or, if not, you can just move on quickly.

If you aren't using probes but just looking for anomalies, you can still use this interface without worrying about the probe window.

You've just read another awesome post by Chance Ravinne, CEO of EVE's #1 torpedo delivery service. Watch our misadventures on my YouTube channel: WINGSPANTT

helana Tsero
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#129 - 2015-10-10 13:25:46 UTC
]
Aivlis Eldelbar wrote:
[quote=CCP Goliath]On the topic of keyboard shortcuts, it seems you moved the signature list out of the map window, which is odd, as they now compete for screen real estate. I personally though that having the list in the map window was a great solution if you then made the map side collapsible. There aren't that many scenarios where you'd want your probe controls open and the map closed.

It also leads into my main comment: moving probes n the map now unfocuses the probe control window, and hitting enter thus no longer works unless you click on it first, defeating the point. Any chance this change might be reverted back to the combined window?



haha cant please everyone.. I actually like how they removed the scan results from the new map window. makes the map window now nice and compact and you can have it in a corner of the screen.

"...ppl need to get out of caves and they will see something new.... thats where eve is placed... not in cave."  | zoonr-Korsairs |

Meanwhile Citadel release issues: "tried to bug report this and the bug report is bugged as well" | Rafeau |

SpaceSaft
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#130 - 2015-10-11 12:48:10 UTC
Thanks for unlocking the probe scanner window and making the solar system fullscreen.

The drag to resize is missing. Why do I have to press modifier keys like alt and ctrl to move or rescale my probes?

Can you give the move arrows priority over symbols on the map? They get in the way for me.

The focus camera movement is very very fast.

I'm not very happy with the changes, doesn't feel like you're changing anything really. Just looks a bit different.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#131 - 2015-10-12 07:25:25 UTC
SpaceSaft wrote:
Thanks for unlocking the probe scanner window and making the solar system fullscreen.

The drag to resize is missing. Why do I have to press modifier keys like alt and ctrl to move or rescale my probes?

Can you give the move arrows priority over symbols on the map? They get in the way for me.

.


Regarding Drag to resize of the probe scale, is really going to be an absolute reason to keep using the old scanner if it is missing on the new one.

Changing scanning into a two handed job, really is not a good idea.

I hope it is something you plan to put back, and it being missing, is just a bug?

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE

helana Tsero
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#132 - 2015-10-12 08:42:12 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
SpaceSaft wrote:
Thanks for unlocking the probe scanner window and making the solar system fullscreen.

The drag to resize is missing. Why do I have to press modifier keys like alt and ctrl to move or rescale my probes?

Can you give the move arrows priority over symbols on the map? They get in the way for me.

.


Regarding Drag to resize of the probe scale, is really going to be an absolute reason to keep using the old scanner if it is missing on the new one.

Changing scanning into a two handed job, really is not a good idea.

I hope it is something you plan to put back, and it being missing, is just a bug?


You can now use ur mouse scroll wheel to resize probes. So your hand is still free for 'other' things.

"...ppl need to get out of caves and they will see something new.... thats where eve is placed... not in cave."  | zoonr-Korsairs |

Meanwhile Citadel release issues: "tried to bug report this and the bug report is bugged as well" | Rafeau |

Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#133 - 2015-10-12 10:22:02 UTC
I was testing a bit. Looks good. At least non combat probing. Thank you so much for moving recover button away from scan button, so many times I missclicked those. Probe window even stack with other windows!
1) So if we have solar system map on probe scanner window, will it be removed from beta star map? Then give beta map a proper change to intel.
2) Can we have an option to switch off planet orbits (or maybe there is but I can't find it)? When scanning I only need planets/gates. We would have clearer window with less lines on it.

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville

CCP Goliath
C C P
C C P Alliance
#134 - 2015-10-12 11:07:36 UTC
Aivlis Eldelbar wrote:
CCP Goliath wrote:
"hiding brackets when another bracket comes in front feels very distracting when moving the camera" - could you show me a picture or video of what you mean? I might just be uncaffeinated at the moment, but I'm having major problems trying to visualise that. Destroy probes got moved as a direct response to a lot of feedback, so it's probably going to stay there.

Using the keyboard shortcuts would be considered an advanced move, at which point we would assume you know what you're doing. I think the last thing the window needs is more information to care about all the time. The latter point on the user created filter is really nice though, will bring that up. Sounds like a defect actually.



I think what he means is that, as you move the camera and different markers align with one another, they "snap" into or out of a stack of grouped markers, and the effect is kinda weird, like crickets jumping all over the map once you have enough signatures and anoms in system.

On the topic of keyboard shortcuts, it seems you moved the signature list out of the map window, which is odd, as they now compete for screen real estate. I personally though that having the list in the map window was a great solution if you then made the map side collapsible. There aren't that many scenarios where you'd want your probe controls open and the map closed.

It also leads into my main comment: moving probes n the map now unfocuses the probe control window, and hitting enter thus no longer works unless you click on it first, defeating the point. Any chance this change might be reverted back to the combined window?


OK I think I get it now, thanks :)

RE: Map window - enough people felt strongly enough about the windows not being joined together (size concerns, mainly) that we decided to pull them apart. This change has been well enough received that we are likely going to stick with it.

Good point about the hotkey though - will discuss this with Colgate (likely solution off the top of my head - make that hotkey bindable and not only work when the window is active.

CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath

CCP Goliath
C C P
C C P Alliance
#135 - 2015-10-12 11:10:15 UTC
SpaceSaft wrote:
Thanks for unlocking the probe scanner window and making the solar system fullscreen.

The drag to resize is missing. Why do I have to press modifier keys like alt and ctrl to move or rescale my probes?

Can you give the move arrows priority over symbols on the map? They get in the way for me.

The focus camera movement is very very fast.

I'm not very happy with the changes, doesn't feel like you're changing anything really. Just looks a bit different.


Many people had issues with the "picking" of probes happening accidentally, so we put the modifier keys in. We are also putting in hotkeys for resizing probes on the fly (inc. key modified mousewheel), which is looking nice so far. Layering (move arrows having priority) is something we're taking a second swing at, since a lot of people seem dissatisfied with its current behaviour. Why is the focus camera being fast a problem?

CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath

CCP Goliath
C C P
C C P Alliance
#136 - 2015-10-12 11:12:36 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
SpaceSaft wrote:
Thanks for unlocking the probe scanner window and making the solar system fullscreen.

The drag to resize is missing. Why do I have to press modifier keys like alt and ctrl to move or rescale my probes?

Can you give the move arrows priority over symbols on the map? They get in the way for me.

.


Regarding Drag to resize of the probe scale, is really going to be an absolute reason to keep using the old scanner if it is missing on the new one.

Changing scanning into a two handed job, really is not a good idea.

I hope it is something you plan to put back, and it being missing, is just a bug?


"Keep using the old scanner" won't be an indefinite solution - once we are happy with how this interface behaves and looks, the old system will be retired. If you can explain a little more why you have issues with a key modified system beyond "not a good idea", I would be happy to hear your concerns though.

CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath

CCP Goliath
C C P
C C P Alliance
#137 - 2015-10-12 11:14:29 UTC
Jeremiah Saken wrote:
I was testing a bit. Looks good. At least non combat probing. Thank you so much for moving recover button away from scan button, so many times I missclicked those. Probe window even stack with other windows!
1) So if we have solar system map on probe scanner window, will it be removed from beta star map? Then give beta map a proper change to intel.
2) Can we have an option to switch off planet orbits (or maybe there is but I can't find it)? When scanning I only need planets/gates. We would have clearer window with less lines on it.


1 - I believe so, but we haven't discussed it as a team yet
2 - You mean remove the lines? Hmm, it's not an option currently certainly. I can ask? Might not be possible though, or require too much technical implementation.

CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath

Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#138 - 2015-10-12 11:54:02 UTC
CCP Goliath wrote:
2 - You mean remove the lines? Hmm, it's not an option currently certainly. I can ask? Might not be possible though, or require too much technical implementation.

Yes, the lines. It's just decoration at least for me. When scanning internal planets, UI tends to clutter.

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville

Torgeir Hekard
I MYSELF AND ME
#139 - 2015-10-12 11:57:21 UTC
Stupid question, but how to resize probes?

I assume you have to hold alt (why?), but nothing happens. Well, the cones appear, but I can't drag them. I can alt-shift and resize a single probe, but not all probes at once.
Aivlis Eldelbar
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#140 - 2015-10-12 15:42:29 UTC
CCP Goliath wrote:

OK I think I get it now, thanks :)

RE: Map window - enough people felt strongly enough about the windows not being joined together (size concerns, mainly) that we decided to pull them apart. This change has been well enough received that we are likely going to stick with it.

Good point about the hotkey though - will discuss this with Colgate (likely solution off the top of my head - make that hotkey bindable and not only work when the window is active.


Thanks for the reply!
I have noticed a lot of people seem to prefer having separate windows, so I guess whatever works is fine, I'm just stating my own preference.

Also a quick and dirty solution that comes to my mind for the map crickets is to refresh the groupings on button release rather than every frame, but that's likely to be me using a handaxe to cut a cupcake.

RE: Orbit lines.
I'll throw in my two cents. They are indeed mostly decoration, but can serve to orient yourself sometimes, as well. The main problem is that with the old map, when you tilted the camera into the ecliptical plane to dscan a moon, the orbit line often ended up in your face, ie: pointing straight at the camera, so I guess that's where the request comes from. Maybe you could dim them when the camera is nearby?

RE: Controls for one-handed-scanning. Have you looked into mouse button combinations? For example, click and hold anywhere on the map to start rotating the view, as usual, then tap the secondary mouse button to initiate probe resize. Release all buttons to reset this sequence. Middle mouse button click to center on the cursor (or a celestial under it). This is similar to how some CAD programs work, CATIA in particular, and while it may sound complex at first, it seems just natural after the first thirty minutes.