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[Aegis] More balance! - Ishtars, DDAs and the Tempest

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Vesan Terakol
Trollgrin Sadface
Dark Taboo
#741 - 2015-07-07 13:40:01 UTC
OH NOES, the DDA nerf hurts so much!

So, the 4 Navy Curators on my Stratios now have 15 less DPS exactly (380). Total of about 24 with the previous adjustment.
This is a setup with no guns and I have sentry 4, interfacing 5.

As with most other affected ships, you have the option to also fit guns (Might they be unbonused, they would still push another 80-100 DPS for a cruiser/battlecruiser) with the total horrendous drop in DPS becoming even less significant.

I am sorry, but you can't seriously be crying that much. It is not logical, it is not supported by the scale of the change, most people won't even notice it!
Stitch Kaneland
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#742 - 2015-07-07 13:54:36 UTC
Ghokhu wrote:
Oh Lord im so happy that World of Warships is now open Beta, cause honestly? Besides of Incursions /if you have the luck to get in fleets that is/ nothing is really worth it for making isk.

That said, CCP is going the way to make us pay for monthly fee + buying PLEX to get isk for ships, which you cannot use or lose cause NO ONE wants to fight.

Tired of sitting in station or at titan to wait and drop some poor sucker who is ratting.
Tired of gatecamping in lowsec so we can kill someone who hits autopilot or is too new to really know the ways around EVE.
EVE was fun, now its more work then fun.

So CCP please nerf it all so we can start over with EVE 2.0
Have fun, im out to sink some warships...muhahaha

P.S.: BTW when do you actualy plan to release Valkyrie ? 2017? 2025 ? Never?


Do something that involves you leaving high sec. Isk is easy to come across when your not hiding in lvl4s grinding isk in your afktar playing WoWS. Or, since you mention titans, stop relying on others for your content. If your only means of content is sitting on a titan, ship spinning or afktaring, then you are missing out on the better parts of the game.

Get in a ship, open your map, search for active pilots in space or ships killed in the last 30min. Then go to those places and get fights. Easy. There, now you can create your own content and its not restricted to drone boats because of some dumb null blob doctrine, or for your isk ticks.

Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role - OP SUCCESS

Make the Muninn great again!
Xenuria
#743 - 2015-07-07 14:17:51 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
One more post for the Aegis release covering a couple more small balance changes.

First of all, the Ishtar. In our ongoing to quest to find out exactly what it will take to move the Ishtar off its throne as the most dominant PVP ship in EVE, we are going to make the following changes:
  • -1 mid slot, +1 low slot
  • Decrease in mass from 1,100,000 to 1060000
  • Decrease in max velocity from 185m/s to 175m/s
  • Agility going from .52 to .565
  • Power grid lowered from 780 to 740

    • Overall these changes should put a lot of pressure on speed based, shield fits (especially those using over-sized afterburners), forcing a tougher choice between the speed you get with shields and the survivability you get with armor.

    Next up, Drone Damage Amplifiers. While the Ishtar has really taken the spotlight as the most oppressive ship around, drone focused hulls are extremely strong across the board. From the Algos and the Tristan, to the Vexor and the Gila, to the Dominix and the Armageddon we see higher damage output and activity than the competition. For that reason we are going to lower the % damage bonus from DDA's just slightly. Numbers as follows:

    Drone Damage Amplifier I - 15% (was 16%)
    Drone Damage Amplifier II - 20.5% (was 23%)

    Dread Guristas Drone Damage Amplifier - 23.8% (was 25.8%)
    Federation Navy Drone Damage Amplifier - 23.8% (was 25.8%)
    Imperial Navy Drone Damage Amplifier - 23.8% (was 25.8%)
    Sentient Drone Damage Amplifier - 23.8% (was 25.8%)

    Unit D-34343's Modified Drone Damage Amplifier - 24.5% (was (26.5%)
    Unit F-435454's Modified Drone Damage Amplifier - 25.15% (was 27.15%)
    Unit P-343554's Modified Drone Damage Amplifier - 25.8% (was 27.8%)
    Unit W-634's Modified Drone Damage Amplifier - 26.5% (was 28.5%)


    And let's finish on a high note, the Tempest! We are looking at a wider set of Battleship and Battlecruiser tweaks that will probably come in a later release but part of the package was a Tempest buff and we see no reason to hold back on that while we pin down the rest of the changes.

    We are changing the Tempest's bonus to rate of fire from 5% to 7.5% per level.

    Will the Ishtar be balanced after this? Is the Drone Damage Amp nerf too much? What will you do with a 950 turret dps Tempest? Let us know!


    In your attempts to fix drone based PVP you have once again shafted anybody who would even think for a second, that drones are a viable damage source in PVE.

    CSM 12 Candidate
    afkalt
    Republic Military School
    Minmatar Republic
    #744 - 2015-07-07 14:49:25 UTC  |  Edited by: afkalt
    Xenuria wrote:
    In your attempts to fix drone based PVP you have once again shafted anybody who would even think for a second, that drones are a viable damage source in PVE.


    It's a small nerf, get over yourselves. What these drone babies need, is a HML scale nerf, then you'll know all about it.

    Frankly drones are getting the feather duster treatment whereas heavy missiles took it so hard they've not sat down since mid-2012.
    Frostys Virpio
    State War Academy
    Caldari State
    #745 - 2015-07-07 15:24:19 UTC
    Xenuria wrote:


    In your attempts to fix drone based PVP you have once again shafted anybody who would even think for a second, that drones are a viable damage source in PVE.


    Drones are still viable for PvE.
    Elviria Bever
    Fabeltjeskrant Industries
    #746 - 2015-07-07 16:08:46 UTC
    Just a question, what of the tempest fleet issue? is it getting the same buff as the regular version......
    I would hope the TFI would still be a better then the tempest?
    Rowells
    Blackwater USA Inc.
    Pandemic Horde
    #747 - 2015-07-07 16:09:46 UTC
    Elviria Bever wrote:
    Just a question, what of the tempest fleet issue? is it getting the same buff as the regular version......
    I would hope the TFI would still be a better then the tempest?

    nope
    Frostys Virpio
    State War Academy
    Caldari State
    #748 - 2015-07-07 16:11:09 UTC
    Elviria Bever wrote:
    Just a question, what of the tempest fleet issue? is it getting the same buff as the regular version......
    I would hope the TFI would still be a better then the tempest?


    CCP Rise wrote:
    For now the TFI will not get the same bonus change. We'll see how this shakes out and evaluate after.


    You probably don't want to read anything in the thread and prefer to snowflake your way in to ask your question but at least reading the blue post would be nice.
    Vesan Terakol
    Trollgrin Sadface
    Dark Taboo
    #749 - 2015-07-07 16:32:07 UTC
    Elviria Bever wrote:
    Just a question, what of the tempest fleet issue? is it getting the same buff as the regular version......
    I would hope the TFI would still be a better then the tempest?


    TFI is still vastly superior in therms of base hit points, fitting resources and the additional low slot, which could contribute to more than the 7.5% ROF difference in hull bonus at max skills (One t2 gyro would give you 10,5% ROF bonus and additional 11% damage, which, untill the 3rd stacking penalty is still more than 7.5% ROF ). As is, TFI is still a straight upgrade over the regular Tempest for 90% of cases.
    Elviria Bever
    Fabeltjeskrant Industries
    #750 - 2015-07-07 16:59:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Elviria Bever
    Vesan Terakol wrote:
    Elviria Bever wrote:
    Just a question, what of the tempest fleet issue? is it getting the same buff as the regular version......
    I would hope the TFI would still be a better then the tempest?


    TFI is still vastly superior in therms of base hit points, fitting resources and the additional low slot, which could contribute to more than the 7.5% ROF difference in hull bonus at max skills (One t2 gyro would give you 10,5% ROF bonus and additional 11% damage, which, untill the 3rd stacking penalty is still more than 7.5% ROF ). As is, TFI is still a straight upgrade over the regular Tempest for 90% of cases.



    True that the third gyro, or damage mod does more, the difference is that this 10% at level 5 is on the ship skill so no stacking is applied, it is also true that you can use that low slot for something else, but the tempest now gets nearly that low slot back in damage without further stacking penalties
    Sial Harkonnen
    Omni-InternOps
    #751 - 2015-07-07 18:06:46 UTC
    "We are changing the Tempest's bonus to rate of fire from 5% to 7.5% per level."
    cool, eh but yes, whats about the fleet tempest?
    will it see the same bonus?
    would be great and at least fair.

    btw, look at the typhoon/fleet typhoon...
    normal typhoon +5% / +5%
    fleet typhoon +7,5% / +7,5%
    and hands off the fleet typhoon! ok? dont change!

    thx.
    So riya
    Quebec's Underdog League
    Quebec United Legions
    #752 - 2015-07-07 18:42:43 UTC
    ALL that changed its for nothing ...
    why the CCP have alot of time make the players hate them ?
    Frostys Virpio
    State War Academy
    Caldari State
    #753 - 2015-07-07 19:02:45 UTC
    Sial Harkonnen wrote:
    "We are changing the Tempest's bonus to rate of fire from 5% to 7.5% per level."
    cool, eh but yes, whats about the fleet tempest?
    will it see the same bonus?
    would be great and at least fair.

    btw, look at the typhoon/fleet typhoon...
    normal typhoon +5% / +5%
    fleet typhoon +7,5% / +7,5%
    and hands off the fleet typhoon! ok? dont change!

    thx.




    Read the thread and you will get the answer to your question.
    Sial Harkonnen
    Omni-InternOps
    #754 - 2015-07-07 19:17:21 UTC
    "Read the thread and you will get the answer to your question."

    ccp just wants a feedback - that was my feedback.
    dont wont to read all 38 pages...
    Stitch Kaneland
    The Tuskers
    The Tuskers Co.
    #755 - 2015-07-07 19:21:33 UTC
    CCP Rise wrote:
    For now the TFI will not get the same bonus change. We'll see how this shakes out and evaluate after.


    Here Sial. It was on the first page of the thread. You didnt need to read all 38 pages. Just the first.

    Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role - OP SUCCESS

    Make the Muninn great again!
    Ademaro Imre
    Deep Core Mining Inc.
    Caldari State
    #756 - 2015-07-07 19:43:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Ademaro Imre
    The problem is skill points. Most people enter game, and eventually train for the Gallente master race if they want to do pvp, if they are not already Gallente. Everyone needs to train drone skills anyway, just give everyone skill points to catch up on their training for the Gallente master race, because this game is just becoming that - Gallente Ships vs. Gallente ships or industrials. Or just give each race some of the master Gallente pvp ships.
    Harroit
    The Scope
    Gallente Federation
    #757 - 2015-07-07 20:33:24 UTC
    http://puu.sh/iyxmt/3448c15a01.png

    I don't think I have to explain why drones are capsuleers best friends with the current meta.
    And these damage stats doesn't completely suprice me. Most of those ships are heavy drone focused bonus wise.
    Not to mention that the shield fitted ships often leaves you with the option of extra drone dps for a ship that's already great at it.

    I must admit I haven't tried to look up how much these stats outweigh missile/turret based dps atm.

    But I'm curious if you.. CCP devs. Have also considered the amount of time people are under E-war pressure.
    I'm talking ECM, Damps, tracking disrupt (misses) and cap pressure that keeps cap based weapons silent.
    Basically all the stuff that can prevent or reduce incoming turret dps?

    Some other stuff.
    Bait tanks often go neuts or small guns to get the PG for dual plates. Mainly leaving drones for the dps.
    Fast kitters that can out run your guns. Here drones are often your only chance of applying dps when using mwd.
    And there's alot of other situations were you often throw your drones at your opponent
    as first part of the *foreplay* either to test him or to see if his gangbanger buddies will come or to eat some of shields
    before crossing the line of no return.
    A battleship being attacked by frigs/destroyers that orbit close with ab makes drones a perfect option.

    But yes.. Drones are awesome.. I don't think they're OP atm. But they are can be so versatile that it certainly makes up for it.
    Drone ships will still probably be great but I'm still a little bit saddened by this fact that the nerf bat toke this swing.

    I'm not gonna touch the Ishtar subject in this post. What happens, happens.

    And as a final statement... not to be too serious on the matter.

    Hey CCP your Ishtar called and: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGhP3p6lI3U
    Stitch Kaneland
    The Tuskers
    The Tuskers Co.
    #758 - 2015-07-07 20:43:14 UTC
    Ademaro Imre wrote:
    The problem is skill points. Most people enter game, and eventually train for the Gallente master race if they want to do pvp, if they are not already Gallente. Everyone needs to train drone skills anyway, just give everyone skill points to catch up on their training for the Gallente master race, because this game is just becoming that - Gallente Ships vs. Gallente ships or industrials. Or just give each race some of the master Gallente pvp ships.


    People fly gallente cause they cant think for themselves or make the other race's ships viable. Some of this is due to gal being overbuffed atm. The other part is just uninspiring pilots being lazy. Click button, recieve bacon mindset from nullblob doctrines doesnt help either.

    I do find it amusing that short range medium blasters could still hit me at 25km though. Kinda strange.. thats ac territory.. hence why acs are useless in most roles. Blasters and rails were overbuffed. Drones overbuffed, gal ships overbuffed in speed or agility, undercutting the one advantage minmatar have.

    There are definitely some balancing issues to sort out. But you can still find roles for the other races. Just need to be creative.

    Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role - OP SUCCESS

    Make the Muninn great again!
    ISD Decoy
    ISD Community Communications Liaisons
    ISD Alliance
    #759 - 2015-07-07 20:54:59 UTC
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    Pj Sephorum
    Caldari Provisions
    Caldari State
    #760 - 2015-07-07 21:03:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Pj Sephorum
    If you give the tempest a boost, maybe the Rokh is in for a bit of treatment? Always love the feeling of flying that ship...although its practically useless.

    I personally am in tune with most that say the drone nerf is a little much. If you really want to make a change, revoming the Ishtar specific bonus would be a better start; the debuff doesn't even need to be significant, just enough to get a feel for whether or not it makes that much of an impact.

    Aside from the Ishtar itself, I do not see why the DDA nerf was necessary. As I understand it, most of the complaints come solely for the Ishtar, bringing that change first and seeing how it plays out may have been a better move rather than nerfing everything and then having to follow up with more nerfs as something else become the new 'meta'.