Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I think you will find i drew no comparison.

I just illustrated a situation where ambitious design decisions are made but failed to have the required foresight. I realise this is very hard concept for you to understand. Dont exert yourself over it. I was really commenting for people with a higher functional capacity.

I for one am eagerly awaiting the update where the absence of gimmickry itself becomes the gimmick.

I'm really confused you think this is overall a good idea. People don't work that way in my experience.

Today I was on the recieving end of a similar situation. DSCAN a small plex, Tormentor inside, activate gate, the exact moment I cannot cancel warp anymore (really good timing, I must admit) *poof* a Griffin appears on DSCAN. Permajammed, gf. A few minutes later, warp into a plex with a single ship on DSCAN - 2 Griffins. Permajammed, gf.

However, the presence of cloaking devices does *not* change my evaluation of risk. I am exactly as risk-averse as I was before. I am, however, frustrated that I had to watch my ship killed without any chance or fight at all, and a few new people on my red "ECM w*cough*e, don't engage" list. I will think very hard to do any PVP with these guys in local. Because I'd be stupid If I didn't. So less fights for me and for them in the long run. Granted, I'm just one guy, but this effect adds up, I'd think.

I'm not whining about ECM (death to ECM, though), I'm trying to make the point - You will *not* change people by game mechanics. If they are so risk averse that they do not engage in certain situations, forcing this situations on them will get them to a) work hard to get enough information (in this dicussion that would be more alts/scouts needed, probing, etc.) or b) they will just stop doing the risky thing, if this doesn't work or becomes too tedious. You will just make the game worse for those people. At *best*, you'll keep a zero sum of player satisfaction. I know that I do what I can to avoid cloakies (and will do with recons), but if it becomes too tedious of forces me into a playstyle I don't like - I'll stop doing this. This is only a game, after all.

Also might notice that this doesn't change a thing in WH sites since the current meta is to use an insta warp sabre that snares you just as surely as any Lachesis or Arazu.
As it is an Arazu / lach has normally a 60km point range with a RF point that costs a 140mils a pop, you need heat & boosts to get further (72km's with heat), any other point has 'only' 56/67,5km base range.

Obviously normal 'caught from the site' -scheme doesn't involve booster alts because they would already have to be in the system to provide boosts for the points so 72km's is the absolute maximum you can squeeze out from a point range without rigs, implants or other special factors that I might have forgotten to mention.

That was to clear up some of the '100km Lach point' drama lamas.

Also current EHP in any reasonably fast moving Arazu fit is somewhere in 30k ehp (lach has about 51k in shield fit) which isn't much when we're talking about PvP buffer fits.
The furious DPS of an Arazu is somewhere between non existent and laughable, lachesis does significantly better on the DPS front but medium rails only have around 40km's maximum range without T2 ammo (with a super gimped dps) so you still aren't going to be killed from a maximum point range.
Also a lach has a current max MWD speed range of 1500m/s which with a 6,7s align time means that running from a Lach really shouldn't be your main concern assuming you know how to run from a point and assuming that the Lach didn't land under 27km's from you to use it's scram.

Also currently Arazu with RF point fit goes for around 400mils and Lachesis is in the same ball bark so it's not like maximum range fitted gal recons are suddenly going to be everywhere considering how easy they are to kill.

Automatic D-scan immunity for combat recons, the more I think about it, is a terrible idea.

Not only does it hurt solo play, but you get hac resists and people thinking they will be forced to fit probe launchers to their vessels everytime if they don't wish to warp to somewhere that is camped by a hundred force recons. You are basically forcing people into certain ship fittings to avoid getting caught, cloaked vessels as a person pointed out, have to maneuver into position carefully in order to not get caught. FW plexes full of force recons, thanks for ruining fw.

You do not understand player behavior completely? Understandable. But this half-thought up idea means that someone at CCP hasn't really been paying attention to player behavior at all. Certainly havn't been playing the game on TQ TO understand at any rate.
This idea lacks any application of foresight, a gross failure of game design.

Gold!












(they'll just spam activate and escape your 'camp')

Removed some off topic posts.

Agreed. EVE pvp was always built on 2 factors:
1. Ganker's availability to get on target
2. Target's availability to detect ganker soon enough to get out.

So, basically all sides have equal chances and result only depends on player actions. With this future target have no chances at all. Compare it to cloak, that put some disadvantages to your ship (recalibration and not instant cloaking), dscan needs to be balanced, make this a module, finally

No, they shouldn't. The covert ops cloak makes the Rapier viable as a nullsec solo boat. Ranged damage application provided by missiles perfectly fits that concept. Same goes for the pilgrim and its neut range bonus. Ship balancing is actually done VERY well the more you look into it and I generally think that CCP really excells in that field.

D-scan immunity however is a terrible idea since pilots will just be more eager dock up/safe up cloak and less fights will actually happen. But others have said that before.

I might add that force recons at least should get a much bigger cargo hold to really make them viable as solo boats. Especially the pilgrim will need much room fo cap boosters to extend its operational range fitting its role as a recon ship.

This would also give solo pvpers some viable tool while d-scan invisible recons on top of ogb won't exactly make this playstyle more fun in general.