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[Proteus - January] Recon ships

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Solaris Vex
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1141 - 2014-12-20 08:59:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Solaris Vex
Furthermore the split turret/launcher hardpoints adds extra buttons and micromanagement, this is not the kind of complexity that a busy recon pilot needs.

Removing the neut strength from the curse is effectively a nerf to its role as a hunter for blops fleet. A hunters role involve sneaking up on a ratter, usually a battleship or t3, decloaking at point blank range, then scramming the target and lighting a covert cyno. In this situation a range bonus is nearly useless and the strength bonus is important for increasing the change the victim will be capped out in one cycle. So removing the neut strength is really a huge nerf to the curse.

Whoever wrote the changes in the op doesn't seem to understand why most recons are broken.
Adrie Atticus
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1142 - 2014-12-20 10:07:11 UTC
ITT: risk-averse FW farmers and WH carebears whining about being exposed to PvP.
TuCZnak
Cyber Dong Industries
#1143 - 2014-12-20 10:13:19 UTC
Adrie Atticus wrote:
ITT: risk-averse FW farmers and WH carebears whining about being exposed to PvP.

ITT: nullbears that were never in lowsec calling others whiners
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#1144 - 2014-12-20 10:14:56 UTC
Adrie Atticus wrote:
ITT: risk-averse FW farmers and WH carebears whining about being exposed to PvP.


From a guy who one ever gets kills in fleets of 30-200 people.
Ciba Lexlulu
Stay Frosty.
A Band Apart.
#1145 - 2014-12-20 10:31:21 UTC
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Crosi Wesdo wrote:

You have a bunch of people with 15 kills in their lifetime or at maxumym 15 kills per month saying this change is awesome,


First supporter of d-scan immunity for recons after i posted the above (and every other one ive checked is pretty much the same level of 'i basically dont ever pvp but will when im gonna be at zero risk'

Greymist wrote:
]A lot of Crying about not being able to see a ship on D-scan. I love the idea from a PVP perspective. From a PVE perspective, it adds a bit more challenge to the game. easily overcome by working as a team and watching the incoming and static WHs in the system.

Can't wait to go hunting :)

Good job CCP... Not going to make everyone happy but they will do as they always do... GET OVER IT!!!

Happy hunting everyone/


The Hamilton wrote:

#1133 - 2014-12-20 07:10:43 UTC |
Like
Wormhole dweller. These changes are glorious!


I support these changes.. If you are quiting, can I have your stuffs?

Not sure why people is so afraid of change. I guess when you are currently a 'l33t' pvper, people like to maintain status quo. Learning new things is hard..
Lug Muad'Dib
Funk'in Hole
#1146 - 2014-12-20 10:40:48 UTC
People will not quit, just be more risk averse, D-Scan immunity is dumb idea with dumb explanation. Where is the massive drawback for a so massive OP trait ?
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1147 - 2014-12-20 10:43:32 UTC
Crosi Wesdo wrote:


As a high sec ganker you clearly dont understand the issues here. I dont recal anyone that is complaining about these changes complaining about the strateos. In fact i dont remember anyone at all that i know complaining about it at any point.

So bad strawman is bad.

In all scenarios that i fight in, a ship immune to dscan is very much worse than a cloaky ship, and even though i dont live in wormholes, my limited understanding of them is that dscan immunity will be more powerful there than it will be where i am in FW.

Arbitrary mechanics to make up for people who are terrible at eve and cant hide their fleet/bait a fight are a very bad move and encourage an undesirable meta that will be to some degree compulsory for all.

As you correctly said, there are mechanics that already allow people to emulate this effectwith less powerful force recons, so encouraging this type of activity my taking the skill out of it and giving people ships close to ahac performace to do it with is demented.

TBH im less concerned with plex campers than i am small roaming gangs of recons that warp into plexes with zero warning and create a 180km killzone.

At least with the current force recons the player has a chance to spy the recon entering systems and plexes, hence a possible counter before a pointless gank.



As an igorant poster that THINK i am a high sec ganker. you have no clue of the issues here. Logic is constant, regardless of the experience of the one using it. And if you THINK you understand more of small scale PVP then us.. then come for it. We are among the BEST you can find in whoel new eden regardign small scale PVP, enough that we almost never can get a fight agaisnt other mercs or low sec groups that previously fought us without beign at 4:1 disadvantage. But I do not need to gloat about us here, your shown of ignorance makes a good work of neutralizign your own opinion.

If when ANY gang enters system you stay oblivious until somethign show on your D-Scan , then you are a HORRIBLE small scale PVPer. Your whole argument goes agaisnt itself. You say these changes are for clueles skillless players that cannot make things work by themselves. YOU are the oen that is whinning like a child because you willahve to pay a little bit more of attention anduse a little bit more of tactical knowledge. You will ahve to use your brain and get good positioning when any group enters local. You will nto be able to keep using a PVP skill of a bot, that keep doign what you were doign until somethign shows up o scan then you warp.

If that is too hard for you, then you are the one that has no clue!

If you think that by checking one of the 5 characters of a player you have any clue of all that player does, you are so ignroant of eve that you shoudl never even think about expressing your toughts.

You simply were unable to eve put a singl e argument agaisnt my coutner arguments. That proves you are not discussing, you are winning just because thatis how you FEEL it. Feeling is emotion. I am using logic.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1148 - 2014-12-20 10:46:09 UTC
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Adrie Atticus wrote:
ITT: risk-averse FW farmers and WH carebears whining about being exposed to PvP.


From a guy who one ever gets kills in fleets of 30-200 people.



Again, peopel do not have a single character in this game. And 30 peopel is a HUGE fleet. If you want to show skill in small scale PVP you stay under 5 peope. Over that the FC is mroe important then the members.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Arla Sarain
#1149 - 2014-12-20 10:55:02 UTC
Lug Muad'Dib wrote:
People will not quit, just be more risk averse, D-Scan immunity is dumb idea with dumb explanation. Where is the massive drawback for a so massive OP trait ?

No drawbacks

Just further buffs, like the HAC resist profile to boot.
Adrie Atticus
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1150 - 2014-12-20 10:59:22 UTC
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Adrie Atticus wrote:
ITT: risk-averse FW farmers and WH carebears whining about being exposed to PvP.


From a guy who one ever gets kills in fleets of 30-200 people.


Point still stands, no matter how much you try to shoot the messenger.
Darth Fett
Iris Covenant
The Gorgon Empire
#1151 - 2014-12-20 10:59:46 UTC
How about adding any anti-MJD feature? This cheating "save me" button should be nerfed.
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#1152 - 2014-12-20 11:00:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Crosi Wesdo
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Adrie Atticus wrote:
ITT: risk-averse FW farmers and WH carebears whining about being exposed to PvP.


From a guy who one ever gets kills in fleets of 30-200 people.



Again, peopel do not have a single character in this game. And 30 peopel is a HUGE fleet. If you want to show skill in small scale PVP you stay under 5 peope. Over that the FC is mroe important then the members.


Reading comprehension fail. I very rarely fly in fleets more than 10 people and usually fly with closer to 1.

As for the rest of your drivel, no one said anything about being oblivious to changes in local. Just that there is no warning of them entering a plex.

This change simply will require people to constantly check killboards of everyone that enters a system. Im not sure that a mechanic that sends players out of game is a good way to go.

And seriously, if nearly all your kills are in high sec, you are a high sec ganker. Sorry to break that to you.

Among the best in the game? lol. Since you brought it up you are sitting as a 2007 player rated at 21200th in the game. Just want to point out that this is a 2010 character ranked at 35th. This is mainly because you use larger ships and numbers to kill single targets which means you accrue 'points' very slowly.

As for your invitation. I simply cannot enter high sec. I live in nisuwa, add me to watch list and come on over anytime you like.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1153 - 2014-12-20 11:00:29 UTC
Arla Sarain wrote:
Lug Muad'Dib wrote:
People will not quit, just be more risk averse, D-Scan immunity is dumb idea with dumb explanation. Where is the massive drawback for a so massive OP trait ?

No drawbacks

Just further buffs, like the HAC resist profile to boot.



The drawback is implicit hat all other cruiser sized hull got massively buffed on last 18 months.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Verdis deMosays
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1154 - 2014-12-20 11:02:41 UTC
Darth Fett wrote:
How about adding any anti-MJD feature? This cheating "save me" button should be nerfed.


While resisting the temptation to be scathingly sarcastic, I'll point out that a scram shuts off MJDs.... Working as intended.
Ab'del Abu
Atlantis Ascendant
#1155 - 2014-12-20 11:04:12 UTC
Adrie Atticus wrote:
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Adrie Atticus wrote:
ITT: risk-averse FW farmers and WH carebears whining about being exposed to PvP.


From a guy who one ever gets kills in fleets of 30-200 people.


Point still stands, no matter how much you try to shoot the messenger.


If you had paid proper attention, you would have noticed that it's not the carebears complaining but people that do solo / small gang pvp. I would benefit from dscan immunity in wormholes, yet I don't want it. Why? I believe it's bad for the overall health of the lower class community ...

You have no point.
per
Terpene Conglomerate
#1156 - 2014-12-20 11:10:30 UTC
Darth Fett wrote:
How about adding any anti-MJD feature? This cheating "save me" button should be nerfed.

ever heard of scram or are you too scared to get close to your target?
Squatdog
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#1157 - 2014-12-20 11:18:19 UTC
Darth Fett wrote:
How about adding any anti-MJD feature? This cheating "save me" button should be nerfed.


Gold!
Verdis deMosays
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1158 - 2014-12-20 11:21:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Verdis deMosays
Also a few words on the Combat Recons.

First, these ships, while getting HAC resists, are not HACs. Never will be. The damage bonuses just aren't there. After everything is settled out, they are at most ridiculously expensive T1 combat cruisers with a side of EWAR. Let me give an example:

Rook: 5/7/3 layout, 5 launchers, 5%/level ROF bonus. ECM requires 4-5 mids to be effective, as well as low slots which compete for armor tank spots or BCS in order to boost DPS. Tradeoff? You can have ecm, tank, or DPS, but not all three.

Cerberus: 6/5/4 layout, 6 launchers, 5% kinetic damage bonus, 5% ROF bonus, 10% flight time, and 10% velocity bonus. Made to do DPS and shield tanking well, only thing it sucks at is EWAR, but that's okay as those hams are tearing you a new one at 30+km.

So please, read stats and do a quick fit or two before screaming about how OP something will be. I think this will be a nice feature that will bring combat recons into a place where people actually want to use them. And if I lose a C2 ratting drake to one, big deal, GF, and I'll go get my onyx hictor that puts out 450 DPS and show that combat recon what OP really is!

Fly fun, enjoy the adrenaline.
Omega Flames
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1159 - 2014-12-20 11:26:55 UTC
HoruSeth wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
Quote:

I can tell you what will happen most likely:
- Less fights because people are risk averse
- A 2nd account with a Prober at all times will be must, not an option.


I think this is a complex debate and I'm sure that none of us understand player behavior completely, but my experience is actually the opposite of what you're saying.


That can not be your honest reply?

The sad part is that that really is his honest answer.
Omega Flames
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1160 - 2014-12-20 11:44:37 UTC
Komodo Askold wrote:
If the D-Scan inmunity thing turns out to be having more negative effects than expected, they can always take it out on the next release.

The removal of teams is the only instance I can think of such a thing happening once it hit TQ, and since that was also stated in the teams removal dev blog apparently it's the only instance CCP can think of as well, so just how likely do you think it will be for them to remove it if it hits TQ?