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High Sec Hauling/Mining Kills - TY CCP for No Protection

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Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#361 - 2014-08-29 03:21:26 UTC
Angeal MacNova wrote:

Miner gankers are a perfect example. People will gank miners for various reasons and none of which have anything to do with looting the wreck to turn a profit.


Goodness, shooting someone for *fun* in a videogame?

Call Scotland Yard.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#362 - 2014-08-29 03:25:26 UTC
Angeal MacNova wrote:
They don't gank to loot. Some gank if the isk destroyed is less than isk lost.
Substitute “pretty much no-one” for “some”

Quote:
People will gank miners for various reasons and none of which have anything to do with looting the wreck to turn a profit.
Substitute “some” for “none”. Of course, that's not the only place where you extract the profit… Twisted
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#363 - 2014-08-29 03:56:24 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Angeal MacNova wrote:

Miner gankers are a perfect example. People will gank miners for various reasons and none of which have anything to do with looting the wreck to turn a profit.


Goodness, shooting someone for *fun* in a videogame?

Call Scotland Yard.


This is an international game, good sir. We call INTERPOL.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#364 - 2014-08-29 04:19:14 UTC
Angeal MacNova wrote:
Miner gankers are a perfect example. People will gank miners for various reasons and none of which have anything to do with looting the wreck to turn a profit.


And yet the guy mining with the ridiculously expensive meta MLUs in his lows and the ridiculously expensive storyline strips in the highs is the guy we'll drop everything to gank. If he has blue mid slots then we like it even more.

Would you care to try again?

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#365 - 2014-08-29 04:53:13 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:
Tam Althor wrote:
Remember CCP Falcon, the level of protection that concord provides players is the same level of job protection you have when the high sec players decide to quit. Will you survive the next 20% layoff when it happens?


I love EVE and the core of what the game stands for. That's why I've been dedicated to it and its community for over 11 years now.

Risk vs Reward is a huge part of that.

Honestly, if that changed, and the game started to soften out and cater to those who want to have their hand held all the way through their gameplay experience, I'd rather not be working on the project regardless of how many subscribers we had, than sell out the core principles that New Eden was built on.

That's a sentiment that I hear a lot around the office, because we are all invested in what makes New Eden so compelling - The dark, gritty, hard reality beneath the pretty ships and nebulas.

EVE is built on the core principle that you are never 100% safe, no matter where you go or what you do. When you interact with another player, you roll the dice on whether they're going to screw you over or not. That's a massive part of the social engineering behind the very basic underpinnings of the EVE Universe.

Sorry, but your scaremongering counter argument makes no sense to me and carries no weight Smile
Straight

Well, that wasn't surprising.

Thanks for confirming Eve Online has turned into Grief Online.

This thread is filled with a lot of controversial hoopla about 'Staying Safe' with the convenient ancient meme excuse of 'Risk v Reward'. Funny thing is it's the criminal careers that are constantly spouting that bullcrap. Obviously the 'Risk v Reward' isn't balanced in-game.

If it was, this topic wouldn't be an issue and Eve would have no problem gaining and retaining players..When a Dev states he'd rather not be working on the project regardless of how many subscribers are gained by changing that mechanic, then he's part of the problem that's been slowly planting this game deeper and deeper into a Vaporware grave.

Obviously due to the OGB from CCP Falcon to the 1/2 dozen or so Pro-Gank posters in this thread, there's no need for this topic to continue. Heh, at least I can say 'I Was There' when the final Coffin Nail was pounded into Eve..


DMC

'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#366 - 2014-08-29 04:55:56 UTC
Well, now I have to go kill another miner.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Zero Sum Gain
FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEDOOOOOOOOM
#367 - 2014-08-29 05:01:10 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Angeal MacNova wrote:

Miner gankers are a perfect example. People will gank miners for various reasons and none of which have anything to do with looting the wreck to turn a profit.


Goodness, shooting someone for *fun* in a videogame?

Call Scotland Yard.

If you do something for reasons other than profit, you're a sociopath.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#368 - 2014-08-29 05:03:29 UTC
Zero Sum Gain wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Angeal MacNova wrote:

Miner gankers are a perfect example. People will gank miners for various reasons and none of which have anything to do with looting the wreck to turn a profit.


Goodness, shooting someone for *fun* in a videogame?

Call Scotland Yard.

If you do something for reasons other than profit, you're a sociopath.


Apparently it's unthinkable that profit might not be a motive for some, that some people don't care to just watch the green number get bigger, or might have goals in the game besides the accumulation of space wealth.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#369 - 2014-08-29 05:06:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
Straight

Well, that wasn't surprising.

Thanks for confirming Eve Online has turned into Grief Online.
“Turned into?”
It never changed in that regard. Well, it made it a lot safer and easier to stay alive over time, but the core aspect he's describing — that you have to take responsibility for making things safe for yourself — has been there since forever.

Oh, and a funny thing: griefing isn't, and never was, allowed.

Quote:
Funny thing is it's the criminal careers that are constantly spouting that bullcrap.
…and the self-imposed victims. Let's not gloss over how they always bring that up when they feel that a playstyle they don't like is in desperate need of further nerfs. Risk and reward is largely balance in the game, at least now that null has been given some proper buffs.

Quote:
If it was, this topic wouldn't be an issue and Eve would have no problem gaining and retaining players.
The topic would arise regardless because some people simply don't understand the game.
As for gaining and retaining players… does EVE actually have a problem?

Quote:
at least I can say 'I Was There' when the final Coffin Nail was pounded into Eve.
No, you can't. That happened half a decade before you even joined. The only thing that you were there for was your own realisation that you've been living in some dreamlike state where you hadn't realised what the game was.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#370 - 2014-08-29 05:12:28 UTC  |  Edited by: RubyPorto
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
Well, that wasn't surprising.

Thanks for confirming Eve Online has turned into Grief Online.


Griefing is prohibited by the EULA.

Organized ganking started (probably) with m0o, less than a month after EVE's release.

Quote:
This thread is filled with a lot of controversial hoopla about 'Staying Safe' with the convenient ancient meme excuse of 'Risk v Reward'. Funny thing is it's the criminal careers that are constantly spouting that bullcrap. Obviously the 'Risk v Reward' isn't balanced in-game.


Very true, HS is far too lucrative and too safe.

Quote:
If it was, this topic wouldn't be an issue and Eve would have no problem gaining and retaining players..When a Dev states he'd rather not be working on the project regardless of how many subscribers are gained by changing that mechanic, then he's part of the problem that's been slowly planting this game deeper and deeper into a Vaporware grave.


Ever hear of artists who are unwilling to sell out? That's Falcon and the rest of CCP.

Quote:
Obviously due to the OGB from CCP Falcon to the 1/2 dozen or so Pro-Gank posters in this thread, there's no need for this topic to continue. Heh, at least I can say 'I Was There' when the final Coffin Nail was pounded into Eve..


If you dislike the game so much, why are you still here? I've been gone for better than 6 months, and you didn't seem to like the game before I left.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#371 - 2014-08-29 05:20:28 UTC
Zero Sum Gain wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Goodness, shooting someone for *fun* in a videogame?

Call Scotland Yard.

If you do something for reasons other than profit, you're a sociopath.


If you are unable to separate fantasy from reality, you may have schizophrenia, or a host of other disorders.

Are FPS players in death matches sociopaths for shooting each other without any reward (other than a listing that they killed something)?
Are RTS players sociopaths for mercilessly destroying each other's towns?
Was John F Kennedy a sociopath because he enjoyed stabbing his friends and family in the back during a rousing game of Diplomacy?

Now, you'll object to these comparisons, saying that those actions are the essential character of those games, and thus incomparable to ganking in EVE.

New Player Guide wrote:
EVE Online is essentially a PvP (Player versus Player) game at its core.

http://web.ccpgamescdn.com/communityassets/pdf/EVE-Online-New-Pilot-FAQ.pdf

Yeah.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Tisiphone Dira
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#372 - 2014-08-29 05:26:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Tisiphone Dira
Natural CloneKiller wrote:
To keep this discussion going for a little bit longer and for the 'FALCON PUNCH' comment making me laugh so much, please accept last weeks instalment:

http://imgur.com/z6s3vu9

This was a picture I took on my phone of SARGE ZONE HAULING SERVICES on his live (4 second delay TWICH stream!!!) He accepted one of our contracts and just so happened to have a live TWITCH stream of the Hauling. We laughed so hard that someone would stream this and listen to Eve Radio + have others watching the stream.

When we started watching his stream he was in a Charon and no the Talos army was not at hand at the time :) but you pick up the story here with him swapping to an Unfitted T1 Hauler! and just dropping our package into its cargo!

When I get some time I will upload the FRAPS of the whole thing. I will let someone else go digging for his stream link as its all there recorded!







Oh THAT guy.

A fellow codie linked me his stream, I thought, well, this is a perfect opportunity to work on frieghter bumping skills, bought myself a stabber and away I went. Took him over an hour before he got a webber in.

Was only like 4 days ago. Twitch took the audio down though cause he had eve-radio playing which is a shame, it was great being able to hear the guy complain about me live.

Who streams that kind of nonsense, honestly. Stupidity like that, this is what brings gankers down upon you.

"he's bumped me so hard my graphics have gone wonky". That's how potent I am.

There once was a ganker named tisi

A stunningly beautiful missy

To gank a gross miner

There is nothing finer, cept when they get all pissy
Warde Guildencrantz
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#373 - 2014-08-29 05:26:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Warde Guildencrantz
CCP Falcon wrote:
common sense.



This.

Don't haul anything more than 50mil in a T1 hauler, 200mil in a deep space transport, 3bil in a frieghter. Especially if you don't fit tank. If you are flying around with expensive cargo (costly implants, ships) use a blockade runner. You can't be scanned and if you cloak while travelling you are near-impossible to track.

If you are autopiloting a freighter, hope you use those slots that CCP gave you for tank.

And don't fly with lots of expensive stuff in your orca, ESPECIALLY without a Damage Control fit. They are the easiest cap to gank.

This is coming from someone who has participated plenty of times in ganks. Taking advantage of the stupidity of players is enjoyable, so if you don't want to get ganked, don't exhibit your stupidifty. Very simple.

(It's actually amazing to me how idiotic some players are, I have seen at least 20 people jump a freighter into low sec, and 2-3 people JUMP FREIGHTERS...through a GATE...they all died or ejected their ship for us to commandeer.)

TunDraGon ~ Low sec piracy since 2003 ~ Youtube ~ Join Us
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#374 - 2014-08-29 06:30:54 UTC
The fact that Red Frog and Push Industries are still in business with reasonable rates and complete loads of contracts on a daily basis goes against the pro-Trammel crowd's assertion that freighter ganking is out of control.

Why? Because their pilots pay a portion of their contract rewards into an insurance pool that covers the cost of their freighters and collateral if they get ganked while completing a contract. If freighter ganking was out of control, either that pool would be depleted and their rates would skyrocket, or they'd simply go out of business.

Several of their pilots don't just use their freighters to haul other people's contracts, they also make their own contracts and haul them themselves, taking advantage of the insurance program. With this, any loss is absorbed by a large insurance pool rather than borne by a single pilot.

These guys figured out how to mitigate the risks of hauling in highsec and continue to do just fine with this system, so I don't see the problem.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
Tactical-Retreat
#375 - 2014-08-29 06:37:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Altrue
CCP Falcon wrote:

This might be internet spaceships, but it's not rocket science to protect yourself and fly with a little common sense.


I therefore declare this sentence the Sentence of The Week™!

Love you, Falcon :D

Signature Tanking Best Tanking

[Ex-F] CEO - Eve-guides.fr

Ultimate Citadel Guide - 2016 EVE Career Chart
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#376 - 2014-08-29 06:39:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Andski
Also, according to zKB, ONE FREIGHTER was suicide ganked yesterday, August 28th. Four were suicide ganked on August 27th. Freighter ganks are still exceptionally rare compared to the massive number of freighters that are constantly motoring around in highsec on any given day. More freighters are blown up by wartargets than in suicide ganks.

Those in this thread upset about their freighters being ganked are just bad players with a victim complex.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Velicitia
XS Tech
#377 - 2014-08-29 09:00:23 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Angeal MacNova wrote:

Miner gankers are a perfect example. People will gank miners for various reasons and none of which have anything to do with looting the wreck to turn a profit.


Goodness, shooting someone for *fun* in a videogame?

Call Scotland Yard.


This is an international game, good sir. We call INTERPOL.


They said they don't have jurisdiction over spreadsheets in space ... so they're out too.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Velicitia
XS Tech
#378 - 2014-08-29 09:14:36 UTC
DeMichael Crimson wrote:

This thread is filled with a lot of controversial hoopla about 'Staying Safe' with the convenient ancient meme excuse of 'Risk v Reward'. Funny thing is it's the criminal careers that are constantly spouting that bullcrap. Obviously the 'Risk v Reward' isn't balanced in-game.


to clear up any confusion

Now with that out of the way, it is completely the ganked person's fault that they got ganked; and furthermore, risk v. reward has always been skewed toward hisec.

Fact of the matter is, your ISK/hour doesn't get much better (if at all) for mining as you go to less-safe areas - and that's before you even bother to count having to "spend" money on actively defending yourself. For the moment, the market is still settling itself out, as both miners and builders have to sort out how they're going about buying and selling minerals -- however, I think that we will see refined minerals start becoming less of a selling point for the lowends, and as such will slowly erode at the guys "safely" multiboxing in NPC corps.

But then again, the industry side of the game is much less apt to work together in the long run ...

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#379 - 2014-08-29 09:21:05 UTC
DeMichael Crimson wrote:

This thread is filled with a lot of controversial hoopla about 'Staying Safe' with the convenient ancient meme excuse of 'Risk v Reward'. Funny thing is it's the criminal careers that are constantly spouting that bullcrap


Really? I wasnt aware that people's career choices were made available on the forums.

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#380 - 2014-08-29 09:40:49 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
DeMichael Crimson wrote:

This thread is filled with a lot of controversial hoopla about 'Staying Safe' with the convenient ancient meme excuse of 'Risk v Reward'. Funny thing is it's the criminal careers that are constantly spouting that bullcrap


Really? I wasnt aware that people's career choices were made available on the forums.


Well, maybe not to that degree, but I suicide gank someone every time he posts some anti sandbox heresy in GD, so you could argue it that way.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.