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High Sec Hauling/Mining Kills - TY CCP for No Protection

First post First post
Author
Darth Terona
Fancypants Inc
Pandemic Horde
#341 - 2014-08-29 02:24:50 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:
Why should CCP provide protection for your haulage in high sec?

CONCORD offer a level of deterrent just the same as any law enforcement agency, but as with any police for they're reactive and punitive rather than proactive.

If you want your haulage to be safer, bring the guns. If you don't have any guns, sacrifice some of your profit margin and hire someone who has them to escort you.

Welcome to New Eden, you just learned a very valuable lesson in being prepared and covering your back.

Smile




Wait.. Im a pvp guy and this makes no sense. Your better off bringing logistics for escort than guns ******* baddies are going to die anyway. No use shooting at them. But if you can keep your target alive until concord arrives.. You win



Dev your trolling the guy... Asshat


Op. Don't be such a baby. You will inevitably loose something in eve that's the flavor of the game
Ahost Gceo
Violence is the Answer
Wormhole Society
#342 - 2014-08-29 02:26:00 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Ahost Gceo wrote:
And there is discretion as to whether someone is autopiloting or not when a gank is made? I might believe that if the moon was actually made out of cheese.
When a freighter is seen dropping out of warp 15KM off of a gate, it's autopiloting. If it's one of the gates into somewhere like Uedama, someone will have seen it, and it's going to explode shortly thereafter.

What happens when a freighter jumps through a gate and isn't autopiloting? Is it magically invulnerable to a bump and a gank?

CCP ignore me please, I make too much sense.

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#343 - 2014-08-29 02:31:01 UTC
Colitina wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Since I've been doing a lot of bumping lately, I am going to rename my Stabber "Falcon Punch".

You know, since it knocks you out of bounds.

If that's the case you should name it "Tournament Micro Jump Unit"


Did that Super Smash Brothers reference seriously go over your head?

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#344 - 2014-08-29 02:31:48 UTC
Ahost Gceo wrote:

What happens when a freighter jumps through a gate and isn't autopiloting? Is it magically invulnerable to a bump and a gank?


If he's smart and using webs, pretty much.

I have seen those freaking things warp sideways with Daredevil webs.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#345 - 2014-08-29 02:32:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Ahost Gceo wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Ahost Gceo wrote:
And there is discretion as to whether someone is autopiloting or not when a gank is made? I might believe that if the moon was actually made out of cheese.
When a freighter is seen dropping out of warp 15KM off of a gate, it's autopiloting. If it's one of the gates into somewhere like Uedama, someone will have seen it, and it's going to explode shortly thereafter.

What happens when a freighter jumps through a gate and isn't autopiloting? Is it magically invulnerable to a bump and a gank?
Nope, however Red Frog and PushX seem to have no problems with delivering >99% of their courier contracts..... (see
Kaarous Aldurald's post above)

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#346 - 2014-08-29 02:40:33 UTC
Darth Terona wrote:
Wait.. Im a pvp guy and this makes no sense. Your better off bringing logistics for escort than guns ******* baddies are going to die anyway. No use shooting at them. But if you can keep your target alive until concord arrives.. You win


Actually, in this specific case, since it was an alpha gank on a station, scouting and bringing guns (to gank the tornado) would be the best option. (A simple insta-dock bookmark and some tank would probably have worked too, as the ganker mentioned that it took them three tries to catch the OP)

Logi wouldn't be particularly effective.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon

Darth Terona
Fancypants Inc
Pandemic Horde
#347 - 2014-08-29 02:43:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Darth Terona
Aye.

Was speaking for freighters mostly

And every one should use insta undocks. Especially in trade hubs

Webs make your freighter warp instantly as well.
Angeal MacNova
LankTech
#348 - 2014-08-29 02:43:28 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Tippia wrote:
No-one is exploiting any game mechanics. Highsec is highsec for a reason. It's not the reason you think, though. Highsec is highsec because it is a place where aggression comes at a cost. If you choose to nullify those costs, then take a wild guess what will happen next…?


A very easy way to remember this:

High Sec = High Cost for Aggression
Low Sec = Low Cost for Aggression
Null Sec = No Cost for Aggression

Simple, so very simple. I think only a child can get it.


And Tippia never will.


Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Ahost Gceo wrote:
And there is discretion as to whether someone is autopiloting or not when a gank is made? I might believe that if the moon was actually made out of cheese.
When a freighter is seen dropping out of warp 15KM off of a gate, it's autopiloting. If it's one of the gates into somewhere like Uedama, someone will have seen it, and it's going to explode shortly thereafter.


Point is, AFK or not, Warping after you jump in a system is still the same and gankers don't discriminate.

http://www.projectvaulderie.com/goodnight-sweet-prince/

http://www.projectvaulderie.com/the-untold-story/

CCP's true, butthurt, colors.

Because those who can't do themselves keep others from doing too.

Andski
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#349 - 2014-08-29 02:45:14 UTC
KIller Wabbit wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:
Why should CCP provide protection for your haulage in high sec?

CONCORD offer a level of deterrent just the same as any law enforcement agency, but as with any police for they're reactive and punitive rather than proactive.

If you want your haulage to be safer, bring the guns. If you don't have any guns, sacrifice some of your profit margin and hire someone who has them to escort you.

Welcome to New Eden, you just learned a very valuable lesson in being prepared and covering your back.

Smile


Ah yes, the old blame the victim defense.



Ah yes, the old victim complex.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

Ned Thomas
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#350 - 2014-08-29 02:49:47 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Darth Terona wrote:
Wait.. Im a pvp guy and this makes no sense. Your better off bringing logistics for escort than guns ******* baddies are going to die anyway. No use shooting at them. But if you can keep your target alive until concord arrives.. You win


Actually, in this specific case, since it was an alpha gank on a station, scouting and bringing guns (to gank the tornado) would be the best option. (A simple insta-dock bookmark and some tank would probably have worked too, as the ganker mentioned that it took them three tries to catch the OP)

Logi wouldn't be particularly effective.


Scouting is really the only thing that was needed in the case of the OP. The saddest part is that the scouting didn't need to involve alts or other players or anything. A very simple "Warp to 100km" and an understanding of what a Tornado can do would have meant this thread would never happen.
Andski
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#351 - 2014-08-29 02:50:59 UTC
Maduin Shi wrote:
I'm quite confident the suicide gankers work hard to find their targets. And highsec is better for it.


It doesn't matter how much work you put into finding your targets. There is still a 50% chance that an item stack will drop or be destroyed with the ship.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

Andski
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#352 - 2014-08-29 02:52:40 UTC
Ahost Gceo wrote:
I'd love for you to tell freighter pilots who fit for full tank yet get ganked when empty that they can defend themselves.


If people want to burn their sec status and money to kill an empty freighter, more power to them. That doesn't indicate a problem with the game, sorry.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

Andski
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#353 - 2014-08-29 02:54:40 UTC
Syn Shi wrote:
Gankers have already accepted the fact that they are going to lose a cheap ship. There is no deterrent for them at all. Risk is a myth that CCP keeps preaching hoping some will drink the cool-aid.

Only thing left is reward and acceptable losses. Acceptable losses are easily replaced, just buy more plex.

Telling new players there is something they can do is just lying to their face and hoping that they believe long enough to buy another plex.


This is nothing but "think of the children!!!11" emotional garbage that simply soils the discussion. New players don't fly freighters.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#354 - 2014-08-29 02:55:44 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:
Kiandoshia wrote:
Duchess Amarrian wrote:
high sec is really a joke.


This, essentially.


Being unprepared and putting all your eggs in one basket to make a nice juicy target for a suicide gank is the joke here, not highsec.

There are a multitude of ways to protect yourself from suicide gankers, people just automatically assume they're "safe" in highsec, then get annoyed when they lose a ship because of their own lack of spatial awareness.




This!

Seriously, if you want to learn how to protect yourself from suicide ganks, start ganking.

There's a reason that I've never been ganked successfully, despite fairly often carrying gank-worthy cargoes through both highsec and lowsec. Because I know how to gank, I recognise the early warning signs.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#355 - 2014-08-29 02:58:18 UTC  |  Edited by: RubyPorto
Angeal MacNova wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Tippia wrote:
No-one is exploiting any game mechanics. Highsec is highsec for a reason. It's not the reason you think, though. Highsec is highsec because it is a place where aggression comes at a cost. If you choose to nullify those costs, then take a wild guess what will happen next…?


A very easy way to remember this:

High Sec = High Cost for Aggression
Low Sec = Low Cost for Aggression
Null Sec = No Cost for Aggression

Simple, so very simple. I think only a child can get it.


And Tippia never will.


I'm not sure you get it. I was agreeing with Tippia. High sec is a place where aggression comes with a high cost (wardec or the loss of your ship(and assorted other penalties)). Low sec has a low cost (some sec status and gate guns).

You're proposing that HiSec disallow ganking entirely (since there's really no sensible way to increase the costs of aggression further).

Quote:
Point is, AFK or not, Warping after you jump in a system is still the same and gankers don't discriminate.


Ok, if they don't discriminate, describe what search terms we can use to find a killmail* of all the fully tanked, empty freighters the originator of this line of discussion was claiming.

Also, ATK freighter pilots have a friend/alt to web them to counter the ~10+ ganker's friend/alt who's ready to bump them.

*since directly linking is inexplicably bad, mmmkay

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#356 - 2014-08-29 02:58:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Angeal MacNova wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Tippia wrote:
No-one is exploiting any game mechanics. Highsec is highsec for a reason. It's not the reason you think, though. Highsec is highsec because it is a place where aggression comes at a cost. If you choose to nullify those costs, then take a wild guess what will happen next…?


A very easy way to remember this:

High Sec = High Cost for Aggression
Low Sec = Low Cost for Aggression
Null Sec = No Cost for Aggression

Simple, so very simple. I think only a child can get it.


And Tippia never will.
Tippia gets it just fine, you're the one who appears to have problems with it.


Quote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Ahost Gceo wrote:
And there is discretion as to whether someone is autopiloting or not when a gank is made? I might believe that if the moon was actually made out of cheese.
When a freighter is seen dropping out of warp 15KM off of a gate, it's autopiloting. If it's one of the gates into somewhere like Uedama, someone will have seen it, and it's going to explode shortly thereafter.


Point is, AFK or not, Warping after you jump in a system is still the same and gankers don't discriminate
I stated how people can tell if a freighter is auto piloting or not.

In fact I said nothing about AFK or discrimination in the post you quoted.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#357 - 2014-08-29 02:59:06 UTC
Angeal MacNova wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Tippia wrote:
No-one is exploiting any game mechanics. Highsec is highsec for a reason. It's not the reason you think, though. Highsec is highsec because it is a place where aggression comes at a cost. If you choose to nullify those costs, then take a wild guess what will happen next…?


A very easy way to remember this:

High Sec = High Cost for Aggression
Low Sec = Low Cost for Aggression
Null Sec = No Cost for Aggression

Simple, so very simple. I think only a child can get it.

And Tippia never will.
You've really lost it, haven't you. Lol
Yeah, I will never get it, as demonstrated by the fact that I said the exact thing I wasn't supposed to ever get.

Quote:
Point is, AFK or not, Warping after you jump in a system is still the same and gankers don't discriminate.

Yes they do. The discriminate between hard and soft targets; between valuable and worthless targets; between obvious and unknown targets.
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
#358 - 2014-08-29 03:12:36 UTC
Tippia wrote:


Quote:
Point is, AFK or not, Warping after you jump in a system is still the same and gankers don't discriminate.

Yes they do. The discriminate between hard and soft targets; between valuable and worthless targets; between obvious and unknown targets.

where you get the patience i will never know, o7
Angeal MacNova
LankTech
#359 - 2014-08-29 03:13:26 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:
Syn Shi wrote:
There is no risk to gank in hi-sec. The ships they use are so cheap and easy to replace the whole risk thing has been circumvented.

Ship blows up, so what...just buy another.

Everyone knows your name, no probelm just buy another character.

The game is so saturated with isk that isk has removed the risk factor.


Tell that to all the guys who suicide gank someone, and end up making a heavy loss because everything they wanted to loot gets destroyed in the ship destruction.

Smile



They don't gank to loot. Some gank if the isk destroyed is less than isk lost. Other gank because they want to drive the competition out of the area. While others still will gank simply because their fun is to **** on another player. Looting? That's just a bonus.

Miner gankers are a perfect example. People will gank miners for various reasons and none of which have anything to do with looting the wreck to turn a profit.

http://www.projectvaulderie.com/goodnight-sweet-prince/

http://www.projectvaulderie.com/the-untold-story/

CCP's true, butthurt, colors.

Because those who can't do themselves keep others from doing too.

Tolkaz Khamsi
Empire Reclamation Services
#360 - 2014-08-29 03:13:34 UTC
I don't see why anyone still pilots Tech I freighters, honestly. Rather than try to move your junk to Jita, just contract it out and offer a discount if the buyer will come and pick it up at the station of your choice. I used to do this with minerals all the time. And for stuff that absolutely, positively has to be sold in Jita...well, that's why you use Red Frog or PushX, as other people have noted. The cost of the service is more than offset by the peace of mind. And if you have cargo (like 50 PLEX's, or something) that is simply too precious to move about...then don't move it, or move it in smaller chunks. Take the long way around, and use several different couriers to move it, and send them all out at different times. The only reason to pilot a freighter in hisec prior to Crius was to move big batches of ore or minerals around, but even that's less of a deal now that compression arrays can be anchored anywhere in hisec. (Though it also means that the inty filled to the gunwales with compressed veld now makes a pretty tasty -- and fragile -- gank target.)

And finally, I factor in the occasional indy gank to the costs of doing business. In the larger scheme of things, it's nothing in terms of bottom-line cost. (Unless you were carrying a cargohold full of PLEX, in which case you learned an expensive lesson you're not likely to forget.) The gankers get their momentary jollies (and a pathetic drop, more often than not); I get the knowledge that their ships will soon be Concordokken; and the great river of Eve commerce will keep flowing.

I don't get the appeal of ganking, honestly. It seems like a lot of work for so-so profit, and the security status loss adds up. (Though anonymous gank alts mediate that problem.) But at the same time I don't get the outrage against it either. It's a hazard easily avoided, and on the rare occasions you do get caught, it's no big deal unless you are being stupid in what you're hauling.