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CCP Response Regarding SOMER Blink Concerns

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111010110
The Darwin Initiative
#161 - 2014-08-20 20:50:37 UTC
Brahan Seer wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Brahan Seer wrote:
So Falcon go and dismantle the games community they are in violation of the EULA, you said it yourself you want the rules to be fair and enforced so put your money where your mouth is!

Just one problem: they are not in violation of the EULA and the rules are being applied and enforced fairly.



Are you brain damaged?

EULA
YOU CANNOT HAVE A TOON OR PLAY EVE IF YOUR PART OF A BUSINESS! WTF do you think killboards siggy TMC etc are?


No, accounts are restricted to individual and personal use. That's something different, it may seem a subtle difference, but it does have meaning.

CCP has no business type accounts. Just personal ones. And those cannot do anything other than what is allowed as per relevant agreements.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#162 - 2014-08-20 20:51:16 UTC
Brahan Seer wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Brahan Seer wrote:
So Falcon go and dismantle the games community they are in violation of the EULA, you said it yourself you want the rules to be fair and enforced so put your money where your mouth is!

Just one problem: they are not in violation of the EULA and the rules are being applied and enforced fairly.



Are you brain damaged?

EULA
YOU CANNOT HAVE A TOON OR PLAY EVE IF YOUR PART OF A BUSINESS! WTF do you think killboards siggy TMC etc are?
So report them to CCP for breach of the EULA. Put up or shut up.

Whether CCP agree with you or not is a completely different matter.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Hendrick Tallardar
Doomheim
#163 - 2014-08-20 20:51:17 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Falcon
dexington wrote:
Hendrick Tallardar wrote:
dexington wrote:
Hendrick Tallardar wrote:
Except that in the case of Zkillboard, Dotlan, CZ, TMC etc. there is no in-game reward for using their referral links. They aren't providing any incentive other than "help us keep this running and that's all we ask."


Is TMC not paying people isk to write articles for the sites, which in return gives ad revenue to the owner?


Yes they do pay their EVE writers in ISK. This falls in line with CCP's policy pertaining to paying in-game ISK for EVE content such as art, signatures, videos etc. The policy doesn't allow for writers to be paid for non-EVE related work such as writing an article on The Witcher 3 or Elite Dangerous


TMC is not a eve only website, and according to the chat logs "leaked" on reddit eve players play other games which makes it possible to find write for non eve content within the eve community. TMC is no a community site, it's a professional gaming site, with the twist it pays the writers in isk. We are not talk about non profit work, the owner is clearly paying people isk to write articles, to make money of ads...

It might not be as direct RMT as what somer was doing, but in the end it's RMT.


As a former writer for TheMittani.com (I'm UbaStij in the leaked logs) you're incorrect. After the SomerBlink incident last year, CCP spoke to sites like TMC etc. and stated the guidelines and rules they were to abide by. This also was done for sites like EVE-Bet.com and others. These have been followed out and thus far there is no indication the policies were violated.

Yes, TMC writes about other non-EVE games but contributors aren't paid EVE ISK for that work. The EVE articles and non-EVE articles are, by CCP's Policy and other guidelines set up outside of CCP, separated in how they're compensated for due to the stated reasons. Contrary to popular belief, TMC doesn't make all that much money beyond covering server costs and other overhead expenses. If you were to accuse, and provide evidence, TMC of paying their writers EVE ISK in-game for writing about non-EVE content you would be correct in saying they are breaking the policy CCP enforces upon them. Until then, it's speculation and hearsay plain and simple. As I previously stated, the fact TMC runs ads on its site is no different than me running ads on my YouTube channel which features EVE video content. Both are permitted per CCP and aren't deemed as RMT schemes etc. Again, if you feel this is a violation of CCP's EULA/TOS with the user, contact CCP's support or ask CCP Falcon/CCP Manifest to comment on it publicly to put your concerns to rest.
Doris Dents
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#164 - 2014-08-20 20:52:53 UTC
You've made the right call in the interests of consistency and fair play, well done CCP!
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#165 - 2014-08-20 20:53:10 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Falcon
Brahan Seer wrote:
And if it was a legit RMT which it wasn't

It was definitely RMT.

Brahan Seer wrote:
than their should be consequences internally at CCP for this mess.

There might be. We'll never know, nor should we.

Brahan Seer wrote:
Not to mention if we want to be fair and enforce the eula equally than the other eve businesses need the bane hammer too.

What other EVE businesses?

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Doris Dents
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#166 - 2014-08-20 20:53:21 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Falcon
Whoops double post
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#167 - 2014-08-20 20:53:55 UTC
Ahshalon wrote:
ok the torch and pitchfork holders have gotten erotica1 and somer.
Not really, no.
Erotica may have been an edge case, especially since none of the people actually involved thought anything bad had been done, but Somer is not a victim of torches and ptchforks — he's a victim of not being able to stay away from RMT.

Brahan Seer wrote:
Enaris lets be real. Did she break the EULA for posting the emails and such? Yes. Are they really banning her for that?
Yes, that and a couple of other things.

Quote:
And if it was a legit RMT which it wasn't
That's mainly because no RMT is ever legit — the whole point of RMT is that it is illegitimate, after all.
Arrendis
TK Corp
#168 - 2014-08-20 20:54:53 UTC
dexington wrote:
Hendrick Tallardar wrote:
Except that in the case of Zkillboard, Dotlan, CZ, TMC etc. there is no in-game reward for using their referral links. They aren't providing any incentive other than "help us keep this running and that's all we ask."


Is TMC not paying people isk to write articles for the sites, which in return gives ad revenue to the owner?


And not only is the paying of isk something that CCP explicitly allows for EVE-related services, but at no point is real-world cash being exchanged for in-game goods or services.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#169 - 2014-08-20 20:57:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Rain6637
Lae Allier
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#170 - 2014-08-20 20:58:03 UTC
Just to clarify my point - The other websites that run at the moment recieve Real money from traffic that is generated from EVE in turn the owner gets paid $ he then buys someone a plex for real money becuase of a player.

So :-

1. Player generates traffic to a site in which the owner gets money.
2. Then some of that money is turned into PLEX - Owner must have an account to purchase as well as keeping extra money.
3. Player recieves PLEX

Thats in direct Violation of EULA - The owner is running the website as a buisness
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#171 - 2014-08-20 20:58:58 UTC
Lae Allier wrote:
Thats in direct Violation of EULA - The owner is running the website as a buisness

That is not a direct violation of the EULA, no.
Brahan Seer
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#172 - 2014-08-20 20:59:31 UTC
Arrendis wrote:
dexington wrote:
Hendrick Tallardar wrote:
Except that in the case of Zkillboard, Dotlan, CZ, TMC etc. there is no in-game reward for using their referral links. They aren't providing any incentive other than "help us keep this running and that's all we ask."


Is TMC not paying people isk to write articles for the sites, which in return gives ad revenue to the owner?


And not only is the paying of isk something that CCP explicitly allows for EVE-related services, but at no point is real-world cash being exchanged for in-game goods or services.




Even if thats okay the EULA clearly states you cant have a character or play eve for business purposes. That can't get any clearer which makes all those groups guilty of breaking the EULA. Do you not agree with that premise? (not advocating it but am I wrong)?
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#173 - 2014-08-20 21:00:26 UTC
Brahan Seer wrote:
Even if thats okay the EULA clearly states you cant have a character or play eve for business purposes.
…and none of the sites in question are doing that.
Brahan Seer
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#174 - 2014-08-20 21:01:06 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Lae Allier wrote:
Thats in direct Violation of EULA - The owner is running the website as a buisness

That is not a direct violation of the EULA, no.



Oh so Somers supposed RMT loophole wasn't kosher but that is? Like come on!!
Ahshalon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#175 - 2014-08-20 21:02:25 UTC
while i get the point many of you are making, please please please don't get any more sites shut down just to prove a point. while i agree that blink was nifty, and am sad to see it go, don't make the mess bigger, don't use it as an excuse to go after more stuff. for the love of 10isk please just stop. plus the rmt wasn't even why the banhammer was summoned, it was for posting private emails without written consent. which is a GINORMOUS no no.

still the proper counter to pitchforks and torches in NOT more pitchforks and torches.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#176 - 2014-08-20 21:02:30 UTC
Brahan Seer wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Lae Allier wrote:
Thats in direct Violation of EULA - The owner is running the website as a buisness

That is not a direct violation of the EULA, no.



Oh so Somers supposed RMT loophole wasn't kosher but that is? Like come on!!


try to find the subtle difference in the chain of custody of ISK and money in what somer was doing and what websites like TMC EN24 etc. do

you will find the answer there

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Drealar
Lowlife.
Snuffed Out
#177 - 2014-08-20 21:02:33 UTC
posting
Hendrick Tallardar
Doomheim
#178 - 2014-08-20 21:03:02 UTC
Lae Allier wrote:
Just to clarify my point - The other websites that run at the moment recieve Real money from traffic that is generated from EVE in turn the owner gets paid $ he then buys someone a plex for real money becuase of a player.

So :-

1. Player generates traffic to a site in which the owner gets money.
2. Then some of that money is turned into PLEX - Owner must have an account to purchase as well as keeping extra money.
3. Player recieves PLEX

Thats in direct Violation of EULA - The owner is running the website as a buisness


You seem to believe you are infallibly correct, so prove it to CCP that sites running ads and compensating contributors with in-game ISK are a violation of EULA to them. Argue it and see what CCP says. Pretty simple really.
Drealar
Lowlife.
Snuffed Out
#179 - 2014-08-20 21:03:16 UTC
double posting
Karra Masamune
Intelligence Operation NetCorp
#180 - 2014-08-20 21:03:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Karra Masamune
So basically only thing CCP could prove is that SOMERblink leaked chat logs with Lisa, and they took that as reason to ban him. It looks like he would have a walk out of jail card if it weren't for that as apparently CCP couldn't prove any RMT or any other major violation of EULA.

Never the less I still like end result regarding SOMERblink and good job on that. I don't like the fact that noting is done regarding Markee Dragon I assume that is to be expected as there is no proof RMT.