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CCP Response Regarding SOMER Blink Concerns

First post First post First post
Author
Clark Ostus
GOB Holdings
#141 - 2014-08-20 20:40:47 UTC
Taken from CCP Falcons OP,

In response, the founder published private communications from CCP without authorization. This violates our EULA and Terms of Service (see paragraph 18 of our Terms of Service).

I could be understanding this wrong, but if part of the reason Somer was banned, was due to releasing private convos between a member of CCP and Somer himself, why has the person somer spoke to not said a word, as far as I can read CCP have not said anywhere the emails are fake/forged, just released without permission, which tends to make me believe somer actually had permission from someone somewhere in CCP. It seems that goons complained to GOONSM, who went to CCP and CCP caved in under pressure.
Brusanan
Free State Project
#142 - 2014-08-20 20:41:01 UTC
Excellent decision guys. Where was this level of competence and transparency when you dealt with the Erotica 1 issue?

With Somer gone and Blink dead I wouldn't be surprised if some of the people left in charge run off with the ISK.
111010110
The Darwin Initiative
#143 - 2014-08-20 20:42:07 UTC
Mangala Solaris wrote:
Bienator II wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:

However, SOMER Blink has offered to reimburse ISK to players as part of their closure....


yeah but they are banned. So how should this reinbursement work now? Or are they about to be banned once they are done?


Somerblinks funds may not be necessarily held on accts or in places only Somerset can access. There is a staff for the site that no doubt can pay such sums out of corporate assets or what have you,


Heh. In before they run off with the loot :P

I cannot imagine CCP intervening on such a level and doing it themselves, that would set all sorts of precedents, but it remains an interesting question.

It would be nice if CCP were able to shed light on this. Then again, EVE is a cold and dark place by design. So we'll see.
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#144 - 2014-08-20 20:42:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Bienator II
Mangala Solaris wrote:
Bienator II wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:

However, SOMER Blink has offered to reimburse ISK to players as part of their closure....


yeah but they are banned. So how should this reinbursement work now? Or are they about to be banned once they are done?


Somerblinks funds may not be necessarily held on accts or in places only Somerset can access. There is a staff for the site that no doubt can pay such sums out of corporate assets or what have you,


its a little bit like saying our janitor will reimburse you for canceled service X.

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#145 - 2014-08-20 20:42:47 UTC
Brahan Seer wrote:
So Falcon go and dismantle the games community they are in violation of the EULA, you said it yourself you want the rules to be fair and enforced so put your money where your mouth is!

Just one problem: they are not in violation of the EULA and the rules are being applied and enforced fairly.
dexington
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#146 - 2014-08-20 20:42:57 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Falcon
Hendrick Tallardar wrote:
dexington wrote:
Hendrick Tallardar wrote:
Except that in the case of Zkillboard, Dotlan, CZ, TMC etc. there is no in-game reward for using their referral links. They aren't providing any incentive other than "help us keep this running and that's all we ask."


Is TMC not paying people isk to write articles for the sites, which in return gives ad revenue to the owner?


Yes they do pay their EVE writers in ISK. This falls in line with CCP's policy pertaining to paying in-game ISK for EVE content such as art, signatures, videos etc. The policy doesn't allow for writers to be paid for non-EVE related work such as writing an article on The Witcher 3 or Elite Dangerous


TMC is not a eve only website, and according to the chat logs "leaked" on reddit eve players play other games which makes it possible to find write for non eve content within the eve community. TMC is no a community site, it's a professional gaming site, with the twist it pays the writers in isk. We are not talk about non profit work, the owner is clearly paying people isk to write articles, to make money of ads...

It might not be as direct RMT as what somer was doing, but in the end it's RMT.

I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous.

Lae Allier
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#147 - 2014-08-20 20:43:05 UTC
well I have just read through the whole posts for the past 2 days, I am still waiting to see proof of RMT'ing when you look at the facts it covers the same issues, if you make real money from EVE in whatever form you are breaking thier rules and should be punished.

once again read the rules

Accounts may not be used for business purposes. Access to the System and playing EVE is intended for your personal entertainment, enjoyment and recreation, and not for corporate, business, commercial or income-seeking activities.
111010110
The Darwin Initiative
#148 - 2014-08-20 20:44:11 UTC
Clark Ostus wrote:
Taken from CCP Falcons OP,

In response, the founder published private communications from CCP without authorization. This violates our EULA and Terms of Service (see paragraph 18 of our Terms of Service).

I could be understanding this wrong, but if part of the reason Somer was banned, was due to releasing private convos between a member of CCP and Somer himself, why has the person somer spoke to not said a word, as far as I can read CCP have not said anywhere the emails are fake/forged, just released without permission, which tends to make me believe somer actually had permission from someone somewhere in CCP. It seems that goons complained to GOONSM, who went to CCP and CCP caved in under pressure.


I don't have the links handy, I'm sure someone will dig them up at some point, but he had the correspondence and the proposal as text documents available on his domain. Probably not a smart move, since that's pretty much what provided CCP with the means to take the ToS / EULA angle to wrap the Somer case in this situation up.

Baneken
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#149 - 2014-08-20 20:44:12 UTC
Brusanan wrote:
Excellent decision guys. Where was this level of competence and transparency when you dealt with the Erotica 1 issue?

With Somer gone and Blink dead I wouldn't be surprised if some of the people left in charge run off with the ISK.


Well that or they make up a new casino and keep in cashing the cows.
Brahan Seer
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#150 - 2014-08-20 20:44:39 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Brahan Seer wrote:
So Falcon go and dismantle the games community they are in violation of the EULA, you said it yourself you want the rules to be fair and enforced so put your money where your mouth is!

Just one problem: they are not in violation of the EULA and the rules are being applied and enforced fairly.



Are you brain damaged?

EULA
YOU CANNOT HAVE A TOON OR PLAY EVE IF YOUR PART OF A BUSINESS! WTF do you think killboards siggy TMC etc are?
Enaris Kerle
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#151 - 2014-08-20 20:44:55 UTC
Clark Ostus wrote:
as far as I can read CCP have not said anywhere the emails are fake/forged, just released without permission, which tends to make me believe somer actually had permission from someone somewhere in CCP.

Yes, we already established they had permission from someone (or, to be precise, the VP of Sales) to run a particular promotion. They then ran a different promotion. They got then banned for various reasons, most or all of which are listed in the OP.

Gallente born and raised, and tutored as a pleasure slave and courtesan to the exotic tastes of the Amarri court. Jade's career veered violently off course when a diplomatic envoy's transport was blown to pieces in mysterious circumstances and she was rescued from the escape pods by the enigmatic genetic mastermind Athule Snanm.

Andski
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#152 - 2014-08-20 20:46:59 UTC
Brahan Seer wrote:
EULA
YOU CANNOT HAVE A TOON OR PLAY EVE IF YOUR PART OF A BUSINESS!


i didn't know the EULA prohibited 90% of people with employment from playing eve

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

Kali Izia
GoomWaffe
#153 - 2014-08-20 20:47:22 UTC
dexington wrote:
Hendrick Tallardar wrote:
dexington wrote:
Hendrick Tallardar wrote:
Except that in the case of Zkillboard, Dotlan, CZ, TMC etc. there is no in-game reward for using their referral links. They aren't providing any incentive other than "help us keep this running and that's all we ask."


Is TMC not paying people isk to write articles for the sites, which in return gives ad revenue to the owner?


Yes they do pay their EVE writers in ISK. This falls in line with CCP's policy pertaining to paying in-game ISK for EVE content such as art, signatures, videos etc. The policy doesn't allow for writers to be paid for non-EVE related work such as writing an article on The Witcher 3 or Elite Dangerous


TMC is not a eve only website, and according to the chat logs "leaked" on reddit eve players play other games which makes it possible to find write for non eve content within the eve community. TMC is no a community site, it's a professional gaming site, with the twist it pays the writers in isk. We are not talk about non profit work, the owner is clear paying people isk to write articles, to make money of ads...

It might not be as direct RMT as what somer was doing, but on the end it's RMT.


TMC was investigated after the last Somer incident. CCP asked them to make changes so they only pay ISK for EVE content, which is allowed per the rules.
Ads on EVE related websites are also allowed, just like adsense is allowed on youtube videos/streams/etc.

Though if you have evidence that they're involved in RMT, please do send it to CCP.
Sion Kumitomo
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#154 - 2014-08-20 20:47:56 UTC
To those of you who keep insisted that "this should have been handled quietly," I'm not sure what you expect. Had Somer himself handled this with professionalism instead of being deliberately deceitful and then going dramatically public with confidential exchanges, I have no doubt that CCP would have respected that and handled it quietly with all due respect.

If you're suggesting that CCP should have allowed Somer to do long term damage to CCP's reputation out of consideration for his feelings, you might, just possibly, be missing the broader context here.

On twitter @siggonK

James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#155 - 2014-08-20 20:47:58 UTC
dexington wrote:
TMC is not a eve only website, and according to the chat logs "leaked" on reddit eve players play other games which makes it possible to find write for non eve content within the eve community. TMC is no a community site, it's a professional gaming site, with the twist it pays the writers in isk.

Only the EVE writers are paid in ISK.

dexington wrote:
We are not talk about non profit work, the owner is clearly paying people isk to write articles

Which is allowed, as has been stated several times by devs.

dexington wrote:
to make money of ads...

Which is allowed.

dexington wrote:
It might not be as direct RMT as what somer was doing, but in the end it's RMT.

No it isn't.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Enaris Kerle
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#156 - 2014-08-20 20:48:06 UTC
Lae Allier wrote:
well I have just read through the whole posts for the past 2 days, I am still waiting to see proof of RMT'ing when you look at the facts it covers the same issues, if you make real money from EVE in whatever form you are breaking thier rules and should be punished.

once again read the rules

Accounts may not be used for business purposes. Access to the System and playing EVE is intended for your personal entertainment, enjoyment and recreation, and not for corporate, business, commercial or income-seeking activities.

If you actually believe that somebody is violating the EULA, send an email to security@ccpgames.com

Gallente born and raised, and tutored as a pleasure slave and courtesan to the exotic tastes of the Amarri court. Jade's career veered violently off course when a diplomatic envoy's transport was blown to pieces in mysterious circumstances and she was rescued from the escape pods by the enigmatic genetic mastermind Athule Snanm.

Hitman 001
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#157 - 2014-08-20 20:48:18 UTC
at least you gave em free expensive scorpion worthless hulls for doing a so god job right. :=)
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#158 - 2014-08-20 20:48:21 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Falcon
Brahan Seer wrote:
Are you brain damaged?
Do you have an actual argument rather than abuse?

Quote:
YOU CANNOT HAVE A TOON OR PLAY EVE IF YOUR PART OF A BUSINESS! WTF do you think killboards siggy TMC etc are?
This is incorrect.

Killboards, signature creations, and TMC are EVE-related services, which are the only things allowed to use ISK as a payment method for contributors. Like Somer, they are not allowed to pay ISK in exchange for cash (or vice versa), but unlike Somer they made sure to abide by that rule.
Ahshalon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#159 - 2014-08-20 20:49:50 UTC
ok the torch and pitchfork holders have gotten erotica1 and somer. now.. who is next.... *points at markee dragon* "OMG LOOK THE DEVIL!!!!"

*facepalms so hard it can be heard across the universe*

get over yourselves people. it's a game, it's supposed to be fun, if you don't enjoy it, don't do it. but don't kill other peoples fun. it seems some are just dead set on ruining the game for those who actually enjoy the meta. and i fear we have just given cause for more and more whiners to kill more and more out of game stuff.... I'm sure i will write a song about it, just give me a few days.

*throws hands in the air and walks around in a circle and sits back down cuz... has no where to go* Ugh
Brahan Seer
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#160 - 2014-08-20 20:50:11 UTC
Enaris Kerle wrote:
Clark Ostus wrote:
as far as I can read CCP have not said anywhere the emails are fake/forged, just released without permission, which tends to make me believe somer actually had permission from someone somewhere in CCP.

Yes, we already established they had permission from someone (or, to be precise, the VP of Sales) to run a particular promotion. They then ran a different promotion. They got then banned for various reasons, most or all of which are listed in the OP.



Enaris lets be real. Did she break the EULA for posting the emails and such? Yes. Are they really banning her for that? No lets not be delusional they went on a RMT witch hunt and pick a excuse to take her down. I know it and you know it and everyone who isn't on the CSM/CCP junk or goons **** knows it to. And if it was a legit RMT which it wasn't than their should be consequences internally at CCP for this mess. Not to mention if we want to be fair and enforce the eula equally than the other eve businesses need the bane hammer too.