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Has suicide ganking become a problem? Empty freighters being ganked.

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Lady Areola Fappington
#381 - 2014-06-18 13:31:32 UTC
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
I have always said that hi-sec ganking should be possible just not profitable. There should be a higher price to pay to gank just for the lolz or the tears.

When you can quickly train disposable toons to throw away with a negative 10 sec status, or use a ship that has high dps and minimal cost you will always have the imbalance of ganking favoring the ganker over the gankie.



Quick FYI, rolling disposable toons for ganking will get you banned by CCP. They frown on people biomassing neg sec status characters, then rolling new.

I'm pretty sure not being able to fly anything much bigger than a cruiser, getting chased by facpo wherever you go, and being a legal target for anyone to shoot at is a pretty high price.

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide
Herr Wilkus
Aggressive Salvage Services LLC
#382 - 2014-06-18 13:32:39 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Fair enough, but did this event not show that whether you were at the keyboard, carrying no or low value, fully fitted with every possible module pilots still got killed?
1) you are never ever 100% safe - this is good for the game, it keeps things interesting and exciting

2) in this specific 'event', a simple scout would have saved you with 99% certainty


Or just looking at the map and avoiding the system entirely.



Yes the later ones had that possibility. They could sit in the station all day or week. But that is hardly conducice to a vibrant economy.

My point is that if the "gankers cease to show sufficient self restraint, then it ultimately hurts themselves, as the Prey leaves.


No, the idiots who refuse to adapt leave.
And good riddance, we don't need them here.
Smart freighter pilots will be rewarded with higher margins as autopiloting bot aspirants vacate EVE for safer pastures.
Kalon Horan
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#383 - 2014-06-18 13:34:15 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:


Not really entirely or even partly true.
Unless one wishes to roll ones own ganking alts the implications of firing first on gankers destroys the character for other uses.

The point is it is in gankers own interests to show self restraint before someone interferes to make that actually possible.


You might wanna learn something about the game mechanics..... the -10s in question here can be shot at without concord blowing up your ship for doing so.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#384 - 2014-06-18 13:34:18 UTC
Herr Wilkus wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Fair enough, but did this event not show that whether you were at the keyboard, carrying no or low value, fully fitted with every possible module pilots still got killed?
1) you are never ever 100% safe - this is good for the game, it keeps things interesting and exciting

2) in this specific 'event', a simple scout would have saved you with 99% certainty


Or just looking at the map and avoiding the system entirely.



Yes the later ones had that possibility. They could sit in the station all day or week. But that is hardly conducice to a vibrant economy.

My point is that if the "gankers cease to show sufficient self restraint, then it ultimately hurts themselves, as the Prey leaves.


No, the idiots who refuse to adapt leave.
And good riddance, we don't need them here.
Smart freighter pilots will be rewarded with higher margins as autopiloting bot aspirants vacate EVE for safer pastures.

This event actually was ganking at keyboard characters with empty freighters .... theres the problem......

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Lady Areola Fappington
#385 - 2014-06-18 13:34:59 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:

Not really entirely or even partly true.
Unless one wishes to roll ones own ganking alts the implications of firing first on gankers destroys the character for other uses.

The point is it is in gankers own interests to show self restraint before someone interferes to make that actually possible.



Explain. The vast majority of gankers are -10. There's no penalty at all for shooting them

Those that aren't outlaw, the sec status hit for blowing up a ship in highsec is tiny. It in now way "destroys the character for other uses".

If a future CEO wants to know about the kill, you say "Blowing up a ganker."

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide
Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
#386 - 2014-06-18 13:35:04 UTC
Herr Wilkus wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Fair enough, but did this event not show that whether you were at the keyboard, carrying no or low value, fully fitted with every possible module pilots still got killed?
1) you are never ever 100% safe - this is good for the game, it keeps things interesting and exciting

2) in this specific 'event', a simple scout would have saved you with 99% certainty


Or just looking at the map and avoiding the system entirely.



Yes the later ones had that possibility. They could sit in the station all day or week. But that is hardly conducice to a vibrant economy.

My point is that if the "gankers cease to show sufficient self restraint, then it ultimately hurts themselves, as the Prey leaves.


No, the idiots who refuse to adapt leave.
And good riddance, we don't need them here.
Smart freighter pilots will be rewarded with higher margins as autopiloting bot aspirants vacate EVE for safer pastures.


You know this isn't true. Most of those idiots are already too addicted to Eve to leave. They will just ***** and moan but never actually unsub. Well, let's be generous and say at least 50% of them will never leave.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#387 - 2014-06-18 13:38:08 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Kalon Horan wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:


Not really entirely or even partly true.
Unless one wishes to roll ones own ganking alts the implications of firing first on gankers destroys the character for other uses.

The point is it is in gankers own interests to show self restraint before someone interferes to make that actually possible.


You might wanna learn something about the game mechanics..... the -10s in question here can be shot at without concord blowing up your ship for doing so.



For what purpose, by the time they warp in the target is already history? And concord are already destroying the gankers One cannot target the scouts haulers etc etc that make it possible as a mechanic.
The other gankers, those that have not yet achieved such a security drop ale likewise protected against first strike.

So how does that inconvinience the gankers in any way?

If the predators massacre the prey then the prey leaves or becomes extinct, ask a native American about buffalo or bison they showed restraint for countless generations. Others didn't

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Kalon Horan
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#388 - 2014-06-18 13:38:22 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:


This event actually was ganking at keyboard characters with empty freighters .... theres the problem......


And what stops those ppl from doing the same thing the gankers do: working as a team to defend themselves?
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#389 - 2014-06-18 13:39:07 UTC
Kalon Horan wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:


This event actually was ganking at keyboard characters with empty freighters .... theres the problem......


And what stops those ppl from doing the same thing the gankers do: working as a team to defend themselves?


Stupidity, laziness, complacency, or some combination of all three.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#390 - 2014-06-18 13:40:26 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:

This event actually was ganking at keyboard characters with empty freighters .... theres the problem......


What problem?

They flew their anti tanked ship into a well known roadblock with no escort or scout.
Kalon Horan
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#391 - 2014-06-18 13:40:34 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:



For what purpose, by the time they warp in the target is already history? And concord are already destroying the gankers One cannot target the scouts haulers etc etc that make it possible as a mechanic.

So how does that inconvinience the gankers in any way?


As stated before... little me alone prevented quite a few suicide kills yesterday by shooting the gankers b4 they can blow up their target.

What stops other people to do the same? I can tell you what stops them... they can not fatten their wallet by doing it.
Lady Areola Fappington
#392 - 2014-06-18 13:40:40 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:


For what purpose, by the time they warp in the target is already history? And concord are already destroying the gankers One cannot target the scouts haulers etc etc that make it possible as a mechanic.

So how does that inconvinience the gankers in any way?


What's stopping you from targeting scouts, haulers, and etc other support gankers use? They're just as shootable as the freighters they are hitting.

As I said before, the sec status hit is tiny. I did an experiment on my +5.0 mish runner. I went and ganked a barge. Just for killing the barge, I went from 5.0 to 4.8 sec status.

Truly, my missioning char is ruined for all future highsec work.

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide
Chil
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#393 - 2014-06-18 14:07:24 UTC
How would one go about ID'ing the ganker support vessels (scouts) without adding to the "event"? Would think it's about as easy as finding (for example) your missioning alt?
Intar Medris
KarmaFleet University
#394 - 2014-06-18 14:10:43 UTC
I once ganked a Venture in a Hurricane just for the hell of it.

I try to be nice and mind my business just shooting lasers at rocks. There is just way too many asshats in New Eden for that to happen.
malcovas Henderson
THoF
#395 - 2014-06-18 14:13:26 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:

This event actually was ganking at keyboard characters with empty freighters .... theres the problem......



I find this hard to believe. On a 26 jump haul earlier today. Every single one of the 25+ Freighters on the gate was auto piloting. Go and check it out. They are real easy to spot chugging along at 1 mph (so it would seem) towards the gate.

Also, now all of a sudden Ships become, "off limits", because they are empty of cargo? Oh sweet! I'll make sure my Hulk stays empty, when it looks like trouble coming my way
Xaldafax Caerleon
Veritas Theory
#396 - 2014-06-18 14:17:10 UTC
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
Xaldafax Caerleon wrote:
\

You segmented my comment specifically to the haulers group which is not what I am talking about. Haulers have many abilities and so do the gankers. So that is not the problem here that I was talking about.

If you look in the thread of my specific comments I am not asking for any nerfs. I am saying that people should have more abilities around the cause and effects of your decisions. People that do criminal actions regularly should be see as that no matter where they are... not have the ability to see in safety until they decide to blow themselves up. Just like people that decide to fly billions around without protection shouldn't get home safe.

The problem is that the mechanics around hostile actions need to be revamped more. Like I said a person we all knew was a FBI most wanted would never survive sitting in a star bucks. He would be taken out long before he could kill someone. He already decided how he wanted to act in society and that decision has a price. In comparison... Just like the rich person that pulls a million dollars out of the bank and has it sitting in a bag open for the world to see in a convertible goes into star bucks to get a latte. He comes back and his bag and the million is gone. Cause and effect.

We need to adjust the model more than the specifics...



Just to prove a slight point here:

Without Googling or looking, please tell me the name and biographical information of any of the FBI's ten most wanted. Provide enough detail that I could accurately point them out.

My point being, the EVE "criminal" system is a hell of a lot more overpowered than RL. People quite regularly get away with going fugitive in the real world. They aren't hiding under a bridge, or hunkered down in a compound out in the woods....they live "normal" lives next to you and me.


If we were to advocate a "realistic" law enforcement system, all I'd have to do is commit a crime, escape concord, then move a few systems away where nobody knew my face. Worst comes to worst, I'd edit my API and name (generate a fake identity), and go about my business as usual.


Here is the point you are missing -- tools and technology. If we have more of that then the problem changes or goes away.

Yes a felon can move easily around daily life but there are police and the ability to have a piece of paper with the most wanted list. So while I might not KNOW you are a fellon, if I wanted to be a person that monitors that I could print out the pictures and recognize you and bring you in. You might be able to hide but for people or police that are watching for that thing you cannot get away.

So basically I am saying give people the ability to take back space instead of being hampered and having to WAIT for the gank before action. I see plenty of gankers but I cannot touch them first because I will become a criminal when they are already one because of their actions.

I ask that you get beyond the exact words I am using here and try to understand the theme or underlying message. This problem exists because we are looking at it in a black/white way instead of a multi-dimensional way.
Lady Areola Fappington
#397 - 2014-06-18 14:17:20 UTC
Chil wrote:
How would one go about ID'ing the ganker support vessels (scouts) without adding to the "event"? Would think it's about as easy as finding (for example) your missioning alt?



Scouts aren't TOO difficult to ID. Look for a guy a couple jumps away from the action, sitting on a gate for no real reason.

You can be even more sure if you see em cloak/decloak as freighters warp in.

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide
Kalon Horan
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#398 - 2014-06-18 14:23:36 UTC
Xaldafax Caerleon wrote:


I see plenty of gankers but I cannot touch them first because I will become a criminal when they are already one because of their actions.



No you do not become a criminal for shooting outlaws.
Lady Areola Fappington
#399 - 2014-06-18 14:24:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Lady Areola Fappington
Xaldafax Caerleon wrote:


Here is the point you are missing -- tools and technology. If we have more of that then the problem changes or goes away.

Yes a felon can move easily around daily life but there are police and the ability to have a piece of paper with the most wanted list. So while I might not KNOW you are a fellon, if I wanted to be a person that monitors that I could print out the pictures and recognize you and bring you in. You might be able to hide but for people or police that are watching for that thing you cannot get away.

So basically I am saying give people the ability to take back space instead of being hampered and having to WAIT for the gank before action. I see plenty of gankers but I cannot touch them first because I will become a criminal when they are already one because of their actions.

I ask that you get beyond the exact words I am using here and try to understand the theme or underlying message. This problem exists because we are looking at it in a black/white way instead of a multi-dimensional way.



So, the only thing stopping you from shooting a non-outlaw ganker is the sec status hit? Honestly, it really isn't that big a deal. See above, I took my +5 alt out, blew up a random miner, and went to 4.8. Nowhere near the -5.0 "criminal" status. As long as you don't pop pods, you can blow up lots and lots of non-outlaw gankers before you even hit -2.0.

Think of it like vigilante justice if that helps. Sure, according to the law, Batman is a Bad Guy, and should go to prison....

And yeah, if they're already blinky, blast away. Free target.

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide
Kijo Rikki
Killboard Padding Services
#400 - 2014-06-18 14:26:31 UTC
Has starting a thread by asking a question become a problem? Click bait threads being eaten up by trolls and sheep alike.

You make a valid point, good Sir or Madam.