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Has suicide ganking become a problem? Empty freighters being ganked.

First post First post First post
Author
Antihrist Pripravnik
Scorpion Road Industry
#361 - 2014-06-18 12:16:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Antihrist Pripravnik
baltec1 wrote:
Antihrist Pripravnik wrote:

Regrading the balance part and MWD comparison:
There we go again... subjective approach and playing with semantics CoolBig smile

Regarding the possibility of activity expansions and costs:
According to Halaima MinerBumping IPO - Over THREE HUNDRED SIXTY-FOUR BILLION sold there's enough interest by investors to see this happen and there are certainly enough funds already to make a good start. Besides, suicide ganking is a self-sustainable activity that can pay for itself even without massive outside funding as we already have in place now. Recruiting more is not an issue since it can be a side activity anyway and anyone can participate and contribute to in it at their own pace with an alt. Existence of hard-core dedicated gankers is encouraged, but the real effect would come even if more casual numbers are involved.


It would not be sustainable and no powerblock could fund it.


With data about costs/profit from an event like that, this would sound like a fact.
Without data about costs/profit it sounds more like a challenge Smile

So, I'll ask: are detailed statistics of ISK spent/ISK earned from Burn Jita event available somewhere? All I can see from metrics on the official site is about ISK destroyed, which is not very usefull.
Elmonky
Spanglish Pack Rat and Co
Pirate Lords of War
#362 - 2014-06-18 12:16:57 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:

Traffic route looked at for alerts - What? That's a little anal. If I hit traffic, I'll just change route along with everyobody else so we are all miserable and stuck in traffic together. Still moving at 5 kph for an extra 20 km is better than sitting still behind that accident... ...Of course the radio traffic report lets me know the accident had been cleared... F'ing bloody hell.
.



Hahahaha I use Google Now - it sends me alerts to high traffic incidence on a shiny popup, and then offers alternatives that involve using the exact same route encountering the exact same amount of traffic... except on one tiny side road that it essentially outside of my work building.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#363 - 2014-06-18 12:32:14 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Antihrist Pripravnik wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Antihrist Pripravnik wrote:

Regrading the balance part and MWD comparison:
There we go again... subjective approach and playing with semantics CoolBig smile

Regarding the possibility of activity expansions and costs:
According to Halaima MinerBumping IPO - Over THREE HUNDRED SIXTY-FOUR BILLION sold there's enough interest by investors to see this happen and there are certainly enough funds already to make a good start. Besides, suicide ganking is a self-sustainable activity that can pay for itself even without massive outside funding as we already have in place now. Recruiting more is not an issue since it can be a side activity anyway and anyone can participate and contribute to in it at their own pace with an alt. Existence of hard-core dedicated gankers is encouraged, but the real effect would come even if more casual numbers are involved.


It would not be sustainable and no powerblock could fund it.


With data about costs/profit from an event like that, this would sound like a fact.
Without data about costs/profit it sounds more like a challenge Smile

So, I'll ask: are detailed statistics of ISK spent/ISK earned from Burn Jita event available somewhere? All I can see from metrics on the official site is about ISK destroyed, which is not very usefull.


We are the corp that runs these kinds of things, what you ask for would cost tens of trillions to do and we would not earn anything from it, infact we would lose most of it.
Kalon Horan
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#364 - 2014-06-18 12:33:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Kalon Horan
Noragli wrote:
The proof that ganking is too easy to do is when empty freighters are targetted in hi-sec space. Some were even tanked with 3 bulkheads, and empty, still ganked.

Nobody is asking for ganking to be removed, but the mechanics could use a change. Nobody should be able to stay at -10 in hi-sec and continue to gank people. Ship use should be restricted if you are an outlaw trying to use a system that is above your level of security status. You can still travel anywhere in a pod, and possible a shuttle if they allow that.

If you want to keep ganking in hi-sec , you can, but first you need to fix your sec status. I know right now that it's quite cheap using the new pirate drop, but if this change is made, more people will buy it, and the price will go up.


Defending against suicide ganks also is insanly easy, but you choose to ignore the solutions which are offered in this thread.

Just because you refuse to work in a team with others to protect your assetts it does not mean that it is impossible to do so.

edit: the only thing that really needs to be changed is the mentallity of the people who live in high sec and only care about personal profit.
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#365 - 2014-06-18 12:43:33 UTC
To answer the topic title: No, it hasn't become a problem.

Destroying someone elses ship, either for direct personal gain, or to cause losses to them, or just because it's fun is not and never will be a "problem", unless of course you're someone who fundamentally doesn't understand this game.

And if the tearspillers in this thread spent half as much effort learning the game as they do crying about it, they'd be safe from ganks anyway.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#366 - 2014-06-18 13:04:47 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
CCP Falcon wrote:
Some men just want to watch the world burn.

There's space for us all in New Eden.




Fair enough, but did this event not show that whether you were at the keyboard, carrying no or low value, fully fitted with every possible module pilots still got killed?

All the defences and claims of the ganking profession as to how to survive, and pilots were doing it wrong were shown to be meaningless?

So why are the same arguments being made when they are proven conclusively to be false?

I cannot imagine that his is either good for freighter pilots, or the game in general.

Possibly the world that burns will be your own company CCP falcon, It may be fun now but later on?

Ganking has always been something I am uncomfortable with, but an understandable game choice.

It does seem to have crossed a line, and when the predator prey balance gets disturbed so strongly in favour of the predator, the numbers of prey crash, and one has starving predators. Most predators do not kill wastefully.

This is for the gankers to sort out in their own best interest, burning the fields and salting the earth does not lead to a full and rich hunting ground.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE

Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#367 - 2014-06-18 13:08:32 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Fair enough, but did this event not show that whether you were at the keyboard, carrying no or low value, fully fitted with every possible module pilots still got killed?
1) you are never ever 100% safe - this is good for the game, it keeps things interesting and exciting

2) in this specific 'event', a simple scout would have saved you with 99% certainty

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!

Kalon Horan
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#368 - 2014-06-18 13:10:23 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:
Some men just want to watch the world burn.

There's space for us all in New Eden.




Fair enough, but did this event not show that whether you were at the keyboard, carrying no or low value, fully fitted with every possible module pilots still got killed?

All the defences and claims of the ganking profession as to how to survive, and pilots were doing it wrong were shown to be meaningless?

So why are the same arguments being made when they are proven conclusively to be false?

I cannot imagine that his is either good for freighter pilots, or the game in general.

Possibly the world that burns will be your own company CCP falcon, It may be fun now but later on?

Ganking has always been something I am uncomfortable with, but an understandable game choice.

It does seem to have crossed a line, and when the predator prey balance gets disturbed so strongly in favour of the predator, the numbers of prey crash, and one has starving predators. Most predators do not kill wastefully.


Little me got 11 kills of suicide dessies yesterday, with a far from optimized setup. If you expect that a single person can defend against a fleet of organised gankers you simply are delusional.

People just to need to team up against the suicide gankers and many of them will stop doing it. Even if losing their suicide ships will not make a dent in their wallet, when people actually start fighting them and stop them from succeeding to gank people a lot less people will continue to do it.

But once again: People rather choose to complain about the situation than using the tools they have to fight them.
Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
#369 - 2014-06-18 13:14:10 UTC
Hasikan Miallok wrote:
Bohneik Itohn wrote:
So there are 16 pages to this thread... I'm not reading all of that crap...

Has anyone... Just possibly... Mentioned that it may be safer to go a few jumps through a quiet stretch of low sec than it would be to keep trying to fly freighters through systems like Aufray and Niarja?

How about dem high sec to high sec WH's that can carry freighters? I've scanned a few of those down without even looking for them, they shouldn't be hard to find with a covops frigate and a few minutes. You get to skip the scary bits of space AND cut an hour off of your travel time if you're lucky. It's all win.

I also don't understand the logic behind using a freighter over a transport or blockade runner. It make take several more trips to haul the same volume but you can make those several trips in the same amount of time with a significantly lower chance of losing your ship overall, and you lose significantly less if you do get ganked.... If you're gonna carebear, get it right and minimize the risk as much as possible. If you're going to take risks and fly a giant space whale that attracts everyone's attention, man up and don't cry on the forums when your bluff gets called.

It kind of makes me wish I was the kind of person who could find transporting in Eve entertaining, because I have a feeling I could get filthy rich doing it....


10,000 M3 in a DST versus 900,000 M3 in a freighter.

"several more trips to haul the same volume " ???????


50,000m³ now and DSTs can now tank even more, thanks to that cargo space being unchangeable now.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#370 - 2014-06-18 13:15:04 UTC
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Fair enough, but did this event not show that whether you were at the keyboard, carrying no or low value, fully fitted with every possible module pilots still got killed?
1) you are never ever 100% safe - this is good for the game, it keeps things interesting and exciting

2) in this specific 'event', a simple scout would have saved you with 99% certainty


Or just looking at the map and avoiding the system entirely.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#371 - 2014-06-18 13:18:29 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:

It does seem to have crossed a line, and when the predator prey balance gets disturbed so strongly in favour of the predator, the numbers of prey crash, and one has starving predators. Most predators do not kill wastefully.


Most prey don't insist on dying. Most prey, when there is a giant slaughter going on, aren't anywhere nearby.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#372 - 2014-06-18 13:18:53 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Fair enough, but did this event not show that whether you were at the keyboard, carrying no or low value, fully fitted with every possible module pilots still got killed?
1) you are never ever 100% safe - this is good for the game, it keeps things interesting and exciting

2) in this specific 'event', a simple scout would have saved you with 99% certainty


Or just looking at the map and avoiding the system entirely.



Yes the later ones had that possibility. They could sit in the station all day or week. But that is hardly conducice to a vibrant economy.

My point is that if the "gankers cease to show sufficient self restraint, then it ultimately hurts themselves, as the Prey leaves.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE

E-2C Hawkeye
State War Academy
Caldari State
#373 - 2014-06-18 13:21:02 UTC
I have always said that hi-sec ganking should be possible just not profitable. There should be a higher price to pay to gank just for the lolz or the tears.

When you can quickly train disposable toons to throw away with a negative 10 sec status, or use a ship that has high dps and minimal cost you will always have the imbalance of ganking favoring the ganker over the gankie.
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#374 - 2014-06-18 13:24:11 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
They could sit in the station all day or week. But that is hardly conducice to a vibrant economy.
True, but it makes for a 'frontier' economy, where more profits can be made by the wise/bold.

Just an example: if indeed people will be scared and fly freighters less, highsec hauling would become more profitable for the more prepared haulers.

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!

epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#375 - 2014-06-18 13:26:04 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
They could sit in the station all day or week. But that is hardly conducice to a vibrant economy.
True, but it makes for a 'frontier' economy, where more profits can be made by the wise/bold.

Just an example: if indeed people will be scared and fly freighters less, highsec hauling would become more profitable for the more prepared haulers.


I understand that, but Hs is not really the place for a frontier economy.
If bands of robbers moved into wall street and robbed everyone then....... No wait bad example.....

Seriously though, players need to balance this one out themselves, when one group is having too large an impact and it is not self resolving, then someone will step in with the nerf bat, and that never ceases to go too far the wrong way.

If however a group of predators persists in being too "unbalanced" they get extinct.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE

Noragli
Doomheim
#376 - 2014-06-18 13:26:13 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:
Some men just want to watch the world burn.

There's space for us all in New Eden.




Fair enough, but did this event not show that whether you were at the keyboard, carrying no or low value, fully fitted with every possible module pilots still got killed?

All the defences and claims of the ganking profession as to how to survive, and pilots were doing it wrong were shown to be meaningless?

So why are the same arguments being made when they are proven conclusively to be false?

I cannot imagine that his is either good for freighter pilots, or the game in general.

Possibly the world that burns will be your own company CCP falcon, It may be fun now but later on?

Ganking has always been something I am uncomfortable with, but an understandable game choice.

It does seem to have crossed a line, and when the predator prey balance gets disturbed so strongly in favour of the predator, the numbers of prey crash, and one has starving predators. Most predators do not kill wastefully.

This is for the gankers to sort out in their own best interest, burning the fields and salting the earth does not lead to a full and rich hunting ground.


Quoting this, explained the situation very well.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#377 - 2014-06-18 13:27:52 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:

My point is that if the "gankers cease to show sufficient self restraint, then it ultimately hurts themselves, as the Prey leaves.


If the prey were smart enough to do such a thing, they wouldn't be the prey in the first place.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Kalon Horan
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#378 - 2014-06-18 13:29:10 UTC
Noragli wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:
Some men just want to watch the world burn.

There's space for us all in New Eden.




Fair enough, but did this event not show that whether you were at the keyboard, carrying no or low value, fully fitted with every possible module pilots still got killed?

All the defences and claims of the ganking profession as to how to survive, and pilots were doing it wrong were shown to be meaningless?

So why are the same arguments being made when they are proven conclusively to be false?

I cannot imagine that his is either good for freighter pilots, or the game in general.

Possibly the world that burns will be your own company CCP falcon, It may be fun now but later on?

Ganking has always been something I am uncomfortable with, but an understandable game choice.

It does seem to have crossed a line, and when the predator prey balance gets disturbed so strongly in favour of the predator, the numbers of prey crash, and one has starving predators. Most predators do not kill wastefully.

This is for the gankers to sort out in their own best interest, burning the fields and salting the earth does not lead to a full and rich hunting ground.


Quoting this, explained the situation very well.


No he does not explain it well at all.

Suicide gankers are easier to kill than the victims they choose..... again you ignore any argument that is made that you are able to defend yourself. If you do not want to put any effort into it that quite simply is your own problem.
Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
#379 - 2014-06-18 13:29:27 UTC
Noragli wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:
Some men just want to watch the world burn.

There's space for us all in New Eden.




Fair enough, but did this event not show that whether you were at the keyboard, carrying no or low value, fully fitted with every possible module pilots still got killed?

All the defences and claims of the ganking profession as to how to survive, and pilots were doing it wrong were shown to be meaningless?

So why are the same arguments being made when they are proven conclusively to be false?

I cannot imagine that his is either good for freighter pilots, or the game in general.

Possibly the world that burns will be your own company CCP falcon, It may be fun now but later on?

Ganking has always been something I am uncomfortable with, but an understandable game choice.

It does seem to have crossed a line, and when the predator prey balance gets disturbed so strongly in favour of the predator, the numbers of prey crash, and one has starving predators. Most predators do not kill wastefully.

This is for the gankers to sort out in their own best interest, burning the fields and salting the earth does not lead to a full and rich hunting ground.


Quoting this, explained the situation very well.


I disagree, that guy is full of ****.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#380 - 2014-06-18 13:31:32 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Kalon Horan wrote:
Noragli wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:
Some men just want to watch the world burn.

There's space for us all in New Eden.




Fair enough, but did this event not show that whether you were at the keyboard, carrying no or low value, fully fitted with every possible module pilots still got killed?

All the defences and claims of the ganking profession as to how to survive, and pilots were doing it wrong were shown to be meaningless?

So why are the same arguments being made when they are proven conclusively to be false?

I cannot imagine that his is either good for freighter pilots, or the game in general.

Possibly the world that burns will be your own company CCP falcon, It may be fun now but later on?

Ganking has always been something I am uncomfortable with, but an understandable game choice.

It does seem to have crossed a line, and when the predator prey balance gets disturbed so strongly in favour of the predator, the numbers of prey crash, and one has starving predators. Most predators do not kill wastefully.

This is for the gankers to sort out in their own best interest, burning the fields and salting the earth does not lead to a full and rich hunting ground.


Quoting this, explained the situation very well.


No he does not explain it well at all.

Suicide gankers are easier to kill than the victims they choose..... again you ignore any argument that is made that you are able to defend yourself. If you do not want to put any effort into it that quite simply is your own problem.


Not really entirely or even partly true.
Unless one wishes to roll ones own ganking alts the implications of firing first on gankers destroys the character for other uses.

The point is it is in gankers own interests to show self restraint before someone interferes to make that actually possible.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE