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Has suicide ganking become a problem? Empty freighters being ganked.

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Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#81 - 2014-06-16 20:32:52 UTC
Noragli wrote:
I want to point out the kills made by the character loyalanon and his buddies, specifically many of the kills made in Aufay (0.5) on 14th june. You can find them on eve-kill.net

Post-Kronos: Aufay Burns
Christina Project
Screaming Head in a Box.
#82 - 2014-06-16 20:52:28 UTC
I love this thread.


Seriously, I do. :D


It pisses me off so, so much, about how so many people have so huge misunderstandings of how to do it,
the consequences, how it works, what game mechanics stand in the way of finding and killing targets,
the differences between the faction police and CONCORD, ...


... DAMN!



Awesome! XD

[i]"Don't look into another human's bowl to see how much he has ... ... look into his bowl to see if he has enough !" - Sol[/i]
Glathull
Warlock Assassins
#83 - 2014-06-16 20:54:48 UTC
Sibyyl wrote:
Sounds like somebody was in Aufray last night.. and didn't have fun party sexy time.



Oh, I'm pretty sure there was some surprise sex involved.

I honestly feel like I just read fifty shades of dumb. --CCP Falcon
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#84 - 2014-06-16 21:01:55 UTC
So lets see if I understand what you're looking for here.

You want to ban, or at the very least ruin a play style of active players that create conflict and the type of content that makes the news.

The reason you want to do this is to protect AFK and clueless pilots that create zero content and will soon quit telling everyone how EVE is nothing but a boring spreadsheet simulator.

BRILLIANT! You should start a gaming company. Investors will be showering you with millions of dollars. NOT!.

When I can't move my protected and prepared Freighter fleets through highsec then I'll see a problem, until then HTFU and get a clue.

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~
John E Normus
New Order Logistics
CODE.
#85 - 2014-06-16 21:11:54 UTC
It is a strange fate that we should suffer so much fear and doubt over so small a thing. Such a little thing. ~ Boromir, LOTR


Is 10 million isk (with an "m") and a pledge of your support in your bio* so much?

Really, it's 10 million (with an "m") isk and 1 line in your bio to operate in highsec. That's it!



* The EULA tells us that we can't make you change your bio but be warned, the bio is all we are required to check before blowing up your spaceship.

gf


Between Ignorance and Wisdom
RoAnnon
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#86 - 2014-06-16 21:16:40 UTC
Christina Project wrote:
But when people hide in station all day and are only around for half a minute, then there's nothing that can be done to fight them.


A point you seem to be missing here, or ignoring, is that for that "half a minute" you know where they'll be. And you pretty much know which half a minute of the day it'll be too. It'll be the half a minute your freighter is caught on the gate, and for that half a minute, their ships will be within gun range of your ship. It's pretty easy to fight someone if you know where they'll be, and when they'll be there.

So, you're a bounty hunter. No, that ain't it at all. Then what are you? I'm a bounty hunter.

Broadcast4Reps

Eve Vegas 2015 Pub Crawl Group 9

Houston EVE Meet
Solecist Project
#87 - 2014-06-16 21:26:14 UTC
RoAnnon wrote:
Christina Project wrote:
But when people hide in station all day and are only around for half a minute, then there's nothing that can be done to fight them.


A point you seem to be missing here, or ignoring, is that for that "half a minute" you know where they'll be. And you pretty much know which half a minute of the day it'll be too. It'll be the half a minute your freighter is caught on the gate, and for that half a minute, their ships will be within gun range of your ship. It's pretty easy to fight someone if you know where they'll be, and when they'll be there.

Who is this magical, omnipresent person you are talking about?
It definitely can't be me, although you wrongly use the word "you" ?

Escorts? Random people in local?
The freighter pilot himself? (another "you" you've used, that makes even less sense)



Maybe you can explain it properly?

Thanks.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Erica Dusette
Division 13
#88 - 2014-06-16 21:32:11 UTC
Been there, tried it (and still have some alts dedicated to it gathering dust) and I found it just .... meh.

Suicide ganking got stale for me after the first few hits. It feels one-dimensional, for lack of a better term. Like throwing a ball into a bucket - you either get it in the bucket or you don't. Ganking with dozens, hundreds of people, sure it would be a lot more complex (unless you're talking about an iSboxer) to orchestrate but at the end of the day it's still 200 people just tossing a ball into a bucket. Wow.

Then again some people spend all their EVE time mining, or just trading, or doing missions and to me those all seem similarly stale as a career in suicide ganking would. Each to their own. If you enjoy it then go do it. And no, I don't think it's "becoming a problem" as the OP asks, least not anymore of a problem than it's ever been in the past.

John E Normus wrote:
It is a strange fate that we should suffer so much fear and doubt over so small a thing. Such a little thing. ~ Boromir, LOTR

Is it actually a thing now to quote LOTR characters? lool

Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again!

Part-Time Wormhole Pirate ツ Full-Time Supermodel

▷ worмнole dιary + cнaracтer вιoѕ ▷ вσss
Blobskillz McBlub
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#89 - 2014-06-16 21:37:38 UTC
CODE. might be a bunch of wanna-be high sec mafiosi but stuff that Marmite does or even organising scouts and enough people to succesfully gank a freighter takes a certain degree of commitment and planning that most high sec carebears never put into the game.
Arronicus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#90 - 2014-06-16 21:44:24 UTC
Christina Project wrote:
Noragli wrote:
The problem is that -10 characters or other low sec status characters can operate ships and attack people in high security space.

Nope.

The problem is that these people hide in station so much that people rightfully have the feeling
that they can't do anything about it ... because they can't.

These cowards hide, have neutral alts finding targets,
undock, strike, dock up again.

The whole ganking process doesn't take even a minute.

.


Yes and no. Yes, that's what they do, no, the ganking process is not even close to a minute. Taking into account undocking and warping to the target (10-20 seconds depending), actually killing the target (again, 10-30 seconds), warping to station or somewhere safe to allow aggression/weapons flag to wear off (what is it, 2 minutes?) then docking up, you're looking at about 3 minutes for the entire ganking process. It is impossible to do in a minute or less under any conditions.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#91 - 2014-06-16 21:45:37 UTC
Mag's wrote:
I made the following post in reply to this post. Posted: 2014.06.09 01:04

It highlights fittings at that point.

Mag's wrote:

Only 18 of those Freighters were a part of this change.

7 Charons
5 Obelisks
5 Fenrir
1 Providence

1 chose not to fit anything.
5 decided to fit for full cargo.
3 chose 2 cargo expanders and either an Inertia stab, or nanofiber.
1 chose 1 cargo and 2 local stabs.
1 chose all stabs.
2 chose all nanofibers.
1 chose 2 local stabs and a nanofiber.
2 chose 2 stabs II and 1 bulk II.
1 fitted all Bulkhead II
1 chose 3 armour tank mods. Experimental Explosive plating I, Refuge Adaptive nano plating I and an Elemental Kinetic Plating I

So out of those 18, only 4 chose some tank and out of those only 2 chose all tank. But then only one went with all bulkheads.
The one with all bulkheads was moving 3.6 billion in cargo and the armour pilot 5.9.

Out of the 3 jump freighters, only 1 was in the change period and he didn't fit a thing.

So yes, I would say all is well. Most haulers are not thinking straight and many of then are fitting for full cargo. Isn't that a surprise. Roll

If there is an increase after this change, in what is now considered a rather rare act, then the blame can only point one way. (Hint, it's not the gankers fault.)
Even though full tank freighters are rare, if CODE. is still ganking them empty or not, is there any reason to actually make a full bulkhead fit? One would think it better to get through the system as quickly as possible considering EHP and cargo don't matter in this instance.

This past weekend there were actually 2 all bulkhead kills I am aware of, 1 carrying under 200 mill, another empty save spare istabs and extenders.
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#92 - 2014-06-16 21:48:36 UTC
Blobskillz McBlub wrote:
... takes a certain degree of commitment and planning that most high sec carebears never put into the game.


Good sir, are you insinuating that Highseccers have an aversion to ::effort::?

I can assure you good sir, that highsec's highly successful and organized invasion and subsequent destruction of VFK is proof that they indeed are capable of such things.

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
RoAnnon
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#93 - 2014-06-16 21:58:56 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
Who is this magical, omnipresent person you are talking about?
It definitely can't be me, although you wrongly use the word "you" ?

Escorts? Random people in local?
The freighter pilot himself? (another "you" you've used, that makes even less sense)



Maybe you can explain it properly?

Thanks.


Okay, the first "you" was directed at the other Project person, who I quoted. If that's you, then.. cool. The rest of the "you"s in my comment would be a generic pronoun used to identify the pilot of a freighter being ganked.

Beyond any sort of confusion caused by the multiplicity of yous in my comment, it's all pretty straightforward and I don't see where additional confusion could arise.

So, you're a bounty hunter. No, that ain't it at all. Then what are you? I'm a bounty hunter.

Broadcast4Reps

Eve Vegas 2015 Pub Crawl Group 9

Houston EVE Meet
Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley
New Eden Tech Support
#94 - 2014-06-16 22:05:51 UTC
Noragli wrote:
Rhes wrote:
Noragli wrote:
When you let one group of players mercilessly grief another set, you lose players.

Blowing up a player's spaceship in a game about blowing up spaceships isn't griefing.


EVE isn't only about blowing up player spaceships. If CCP ever forgets that, subs will plummit.


Eve is pretty much all about blowing up spaceships.

Thank me later :D
Baden Luskan
Freeworlds Collective
#95 - 2014-06-16 22:12:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Baden Luskan
Christina Project wrote:
Sibyyl wrote:
Sounds like somebody was in Aufray last night.. and didn't have fun party sexy time.

How would you know where it happened?

Most suicide gankers are just chestbeating carebears hiding inside the station
until they undock in a group, strike and vanish again.

Make CCP nerf the cowards and the game will change.

Until then you have to live with these cowards.



Gotta agree for the most part. When the attacker can mathematically perfect a gank to a 100% chance, then I don't see how it's any different than having someone be 100% safe in high sec. On top of that, the targets that usually get ganked are the ones unable to fit weapons. So, not only can the ganker ensure he will kill the target before concord shows up, he can make sure his target cant fight back.

The PvP system in high sec should be challenging to the attacker and defender equally, and it should not be such a strait-forward system to where either side can determine their success or failure with 100% absolutes.
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#96 - 2014-06-16 22:15:38 UTC
I think routinely ganking empty freighters is pretty stupid. There is no defence against this other than not flying freighters. Going down this path will definitely result in a further nerf to ganking.

Everything should have a counter. It should be carrying a cargo value below the ganking threshold.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#97 - 2014-06-16 22:17:37 UTC
Baden Luskan wrote:
The PvP system in high sec should be challenging to the attacker and defender equally, and it should not be such a strait-forward system to where either side can determine their success or failure with 100% absolutes.
Get out of highsec, problem solved.

Most straightforward PVP system ever: shoot... anybody... anywhere*!


*Some minor hassle on lowsec gates and stations, unless you're both happy flashies, which is reccomended anyway.

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Carmen Electra
AlcoDOTTE
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#98 - 2014-06-16 22:22:01 UTC
Zappity wrote:
I think routinely ganking empty freighters is pretty stupid. There is no defence against this other than not flying freighters. Going down this path will definitely result in a further nerf to ganking.

Everything should have a counter. It should be carrying a cargo value below the ganking threshold.


EVE has a reputation for being brutal for a reason. Most of the time, EVE is all about finding a weaker target and then mercilessly crushing them. We all win some and we all lose some.

Do you realize that this thread is only encouraging people to go gank empty freighters? Asking gankers to live by a sort of bro-code will not end well.

Bacon makes us stronger
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#99 - 2014-06-16 22:23:50 UTC
Carmen Electra wrote:
Zappity wrote:
I think routinely ganking empty freighters is pretty stupid. There is no defence against this other than not flying freighters. Going down this path will definitely result in a further nerf to ganking.

Everything should have a counter. It should be carrying a cargo value below the ganking threshold.


EVE has a reputation for being brutal for a reason. Most of the time, EVE is all about finding a weaker target and then mercilessly crushing them. We all win some and we all lose some.

Do you realize that this thread is only encouraging people to go gank empty freighters? Asking gankers to live by a sort of bro-code will not end well.

I was not making a "value judgement" about ganking but rather commenting on the inevitable, self-defeating outcome of such action.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Hal Morsh
Doomheim
#100 - 2014-06-16 22:25:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Hal Morsh
I think nerfing station games might be beneficial to this problem... Maybe..

The real problem is some people just have too many alts and too much isk. They may even be isboxers in mining fleets ganking with an alt.

It wouldn't be such an issue if retaliation was actually possible. But docked alts like said previously can't be countered.

The only solution would to have your own alts in some cruisers and fast lockers to escort you. Alts to beat alts. But even there lies a problem. The gankers still only need to put in a ton of effort for a very short amount of time. The hauler would require constant vigilance the entire time he hauled to prevent a possible gank that May have never happened in the first place.

I dealt with a guy and x40 one week old alts in thrashers. He loses almost nothing even if you podded them all, and I lost a Dominix trying. Using the proper damage type and not assuming he would bother to unload his emp for explosive might have helped.

Oh, I perfectly understand, Hal Morsh — a mission like this requires courage, skill, and heroism… qualities you are clearly lacking. Have you forgotten you're one of the bloody immortals!?