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Has suicide ganking become a problem? Empty freighters being ganked.

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Author
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
#41 - 2014-06-16 17:06:17 UTC
Noragli wrote:
Negging your security for ganking was supposed to be a deterrant but for most gankers it makes no difference at all. They continue to operate in high security space with -10 security status. It's not a detterant.

as a (terrible) lowsec pirate i can assure you that negative security status is a big deterrant for me destroying pods

that gankers have adapted to activity at -10 is testament to their intelligence and creativity and should be applauded
Higgs Foton
Mission And Mining Inc
#42 - 2014-06-16 17:10:51 UTC
Noragli wrote:

The problem is that -10 characters or other low sec status characters can operate ships and attack people in high security space.

When a character who has aggressed concord undocks or boards a ship, his ship is barred from warping. If concord can do that, then there is no reason the same can't be applied to an outlaw who undocks or boards a ship in high security space. He should be barred from warping or activating weapons.

Ganking will still be possible, but it won't be so ridiculously easy as it is now.


I think it is fine as it is. Stupid people getting blown op. Working as intended.

It is the same with the Burn Jita event which is spearheaded by the fun bunch of rowdy buccaneers which is the alliance i am part of. Yet, despite the numerous attention this event gets in the gamingpress and on all EVE related forums, people keep jumping their freighters into Jita in the weekend the GRR GOONS have their party at the top of the galaxy.

So, i think its working as intended, and should stay this way. You do not want your freighter blown up? Stick some bulkheads on it.
Carmen Electra
Row Row Fight the Power
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#43 - 2014-06-16 17:15:56 UTC
I've done a lot of ganking along the Jita pipe with a nado and recently moved to ganking mission runners with a fleet of thrashers. Ganking is difficult, and requires a lot of patience and practice. Of everything I've done in EVE, it's probably the thing that gets my heart racing the most. If you think ganking is some sort of WIN button, you might want to try it yourself. It's a huge challenge to not operate at a loss. There are a lot of factors that come into play that you won't know about until you try it yourself.

Also, operating in high sec with -10.0 sec status is extremely difficult. You basically have to sit outside of your gank ship in a pod, hop in it when you acquire a target, and then perfectly time your landing. (Which can EASILY be screwed up by a target holding cloak when they see a flashing red person waiting on the gate).

I have gained a ton of respect for gankers by doing it myself. You should try it.
Milan Nantucket
Doomheim
#44 - 2014-06-16 17:19:08 UTC
I have to agree negative sec status isn't really a punishment. The punishment would be grinding it back up.... either way it is really hard now to get to -10.... used to be in low sec you blow a ship your a criminal.. Now your just suspect so you have to go for the pod...

The easier way is to gank in high sec where you actually get a real sec status hit.
infra52x
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#45 - 2014-06-16 17:21:41 UTC
Carmen Electra wrote:
I've done a lot of ganking along the Jita pipe with a nado and recently moved to ganking mission runners with a fleet of thrashers. Ganking is difficult, and requires a lot of patience and practice. Of everything I've done in EVE, it's probably the thing that gets my heart racing the most. If you think ganking is some sort of WIN button, you might want to try it yourself. It's a huge challenge to not operate at a loss. There are a lot of factors that come into play that you won't know about until you try it yourself.

Also, operating in high sec with -10.0 sec status is extremely difficult. You basically have to sit outside of your gank ship in a pod, hop in it when you acquire a target, and then perfectly time your landing. (Which can EASILY be screwed up by a target holding cloak when they see a flashing red person waiting on the gate).

I have gained a ton of respect for gankers by doing it myself. You should try it.


Ganking mission runners required no skill right after the MTU was added to the game.... All you had to do was aggro the MTU while the mission runner had his drone out....
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#46 - 2014-06-16 17:29:38 UTC
Noragli wrote:
When you let one group of players mercilessly grief another set, you lose players.

I feel some evidence would help this point.
Noragli wrote:
It's obvious to anyone who looks at it with a clear mind. If players are not enjoying the game, they quit.

Or go mine in high sec. Lots of people do that. I don't see the relation with your previous point though.

Noragli wrote:
You have this certain group of players who spend all their days in empire space just suicide ganking other players because it's the only thing that gives them pleasure in the game any more.

Go hang out with some gankers some time. You'll quickly find that this is not the case.
Noragli wrote:
Many of the victims never saw it coming or even imagined it could happen, then suddenly their ship is dead and pod is killed by a group of up to 25 players in cheap destroyers. This "style" of playing the game no doubt costs EVE many subscriptions.

Actually, I doubt this. If they were flying freighters, they should know that being ganked is a risk. Actually let me ammend that. If they undock, they should know being ganked is a risk. They chose to risk a larger ship, and fly without checking proper intel. They got unlucky and paid the price.

Noragli wrote:
It shouldn't be possible to board a ship in a system where your security status is below the acceptable limit for that system. -10? You can't board a ship in high security space, or you can but concord will be on you instantly, same as when you enter space in a ship after committing a concord sanctionable offense. Simple and obvious fix to a serious problem.

Then just keep an eye on the price of the security status repair npc drops, if it's still too cheap to get back to 0.0 security status then reduce drop rate.

This is possibly the worst "solution" I have ever seen to ganking being a "problem". What do you tell -10 low sec pirates that wish shop at a trade hub? They can't? It is not pheasible to play eve as a solo player without entering high sec in the current incarnation of the game. You talk about player retention, but want to get rid of more than a quarter of the player base. (low sec pirates, high sec gankers, and anyone in null/w-space that doesn't want to think about sec status).

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Tilly Delnero
Doomheim
#47 - 2014-06-16 17:30:16 UTC
Milan Nantucket wrote:
I have to agree negative sec status isn't really a punishment. The punishment would be grinding it back up.... either way it is really hard now to get to -10.... used to be in low sec you blow a ship your a criminal.. Now your just suspect so you have to go for the pod...

The easier way is to gank in high sec where you actually get a real sec status hit.

We were talking about this not too long ago, and to be honest it isn't hard at all to grind the sec back up - with the ability to buy sec-4-tags it's almost trivial and not really an issue for suicide ganking alts who only ever log in to gank and never need the sec status for anything else. The fact that people with -10 are still able to use medical clones in highsec is what's always baffled me, aren't those stations technically aiding and abetting criminals?

Even the NPCs can't be bothered to RP.

I blame Chribba.
Qaping Pi
Doomheim
#48 - 2014-06-16 17:32:23 UTC
infra52x wrote:
Ganking mission runners required no skill right after the MTU was added to the game.... All you had to do was aggro the MTU while the mission runner had his drone out....


Takes more skill than not setting your drones on aggressive, especially when someone that's not you is clearly inside your mission.
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
#49 - 2014-06-16 17:36:10 UTC
Qaping Pi wrote:
infra52x wrote:
Ganking mission runners required no skill right after the MTU was added to the game.... All you had to do was aggro the MTU while the mission runner had his drone out....


Takes more skill than not setting your drones on aggressive, especially when someone that's not you is clearly inside your mission.

that's secret D:
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#50 - 2014-06-16 17:51:00 UTC
OP, this is the Aufay backstory, as far as I can imagine it.


A guy called James 315 decides to create something 'new' and 'big' in highsec.

He starts bumping and ganking miners.

He creates a pretty complex narrative around it.

He makes a blog, and posts every single day for over 2 years.

He garners readers, supporters, associates and over 350 Bil ISK.

He meets a guy called loyalanon.

They decide to blow up as much stuff as they can in Aufay, managing to achieve Burn Jita levels of destruction.

Some random forum alt (you) whines about it.


TL;DR: you're saying CCP should 'protect' your freighter instead of allowing dedicated EVE players to destroy it (and several others) after 2+ years of effort

OP, gtfo!


Alternative TL;DR if you're actually a CODE. alt: well played Big smile

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!

Marsha Mallow
#51 - 2014-06-16 17:53:59 UTC
Noragli wrote:
I want to point out the kills made by the character loyalanon and his buddies, specifically many of the kills made in Aufay (0.5) on 14th june. You can find them on eve-kill.net

I am not linking direct to the killboard, but his group (mostly his corporation "The Conference Elite" and a few others, suicide ganked freighters, many of them empty or carrying nothing of value. They also targetted other ships of value where they could cause a large isk loss to the player, even if they were certain to get nothing out of it for themselves.

Aufay was reported as an active freighter gank hotspot on the 10th here. One of the reasons cited: since the freighter changes, some players have sacrificed potentially more HP for cargo, because they're greedy, foolish and ignorant. I can't really see how it can be considered 'griefing' to highlight this fact so quickly. The gankers are doing the hordes a favour by demonstrating the error in using this fit imo. Considering how many people are claiming their own errors are a 'reason for sub decline' does that mean the bad players are getting the hint and leaving?

Here are the things freighter pilots have control over
  • fitting choices
  • afk hauling through hotspots
  • using a web alt/scout
  • checking the safety of their route
  • carrying excessive high value items
  • paying attention to media coverage
  • using reasonable degrees of caution in all areas of space

If you can't do any of those things, you shouldn't be flying a freighter in the first place. Just use courier contracts.

ps. you just encouraged me to move an alt to Aufay too P

Ripard Teg > For the morons in the room:

Sweets > U can dd my face any day

Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#52 - 2014-06-16 17:54:35 UTC
And they laughed at me when I was running MWD-cloak in an empty Wreathe for "practice".....

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#53 - 2014-06-16 17:56:47 UTC
Psh. There has been suicide ganking in Aufay long before CODE was around. Trade route to Jita and Amarr, 0.5 security.
Herr Wilkus
Aggressive Salvage Services LLC
#54 - 2014-06-16 18:01:18 UTC
Why is it suddenly 'beyond the pale' for empty freighters to be ganked?

First, if I was going to lose a freighter - I'd hope it was empty.

Second, do carebears really think there exists some kind of ''unspoken" rule that empty freighters should not be ganked? And if they are ganked - it requires CCP take action?
Tilly Delnero
Doomheim
#55 - 2014-06-16 18:05:07 UTC
Abrazzar wrote:
Psh. There has been suicide ganking in Aufay long before CODE was around. Trade route to Jita and Amarr, 0.5 security.

But despite this already having been done thousands of times over ten years, it's 'emergent gameplay' when CODE do it, don't ya know? Roll
Christina Project
Screaming Head in a Box.
#56 - 2014-06-16 18:07:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Christina Project
Tilly Delnero wrote:
Abrazzar wrote:
Psh. There has been suicide ganking in Aufay long before CODE was around. Trade route to Jita and Amarr, 0.5 security.

But despite this already having been done thousands of times over ten years, it's 'emergent gameplay' when CODE do it, don't ya know? Roll

Ganking freighters doesn't actually provide any emergent gameplay for anybody.
Not even themselves, because sitting in station doesn't equal to playing a game at all.

Oh yes, sure, 30 sec to undock, strike, dock up again.

Wow, so much gameplay provided for everybody!


Anybody who believes they provide any meaningfull content to anybody
is just too dumb to realize the propaganda and too blind to simply
look at what reality shows him.


That being sad ... this is completely useless to even talk about.

The facts are laid out for everybody to see, but the propaganda machine easily
deals with the stupid masses successfully.


The game is too easy, especially for these wannabe bad guys in highsec.

[i]"Don't look into another human's bowl to see how much he has ... ... look into his bowl to see if he has enough !" - Sol[/i]

Dealth Striker
Perkone
Caldari State
#57 - 2014-06-16 18:12:15 UTC
Suicide ganking serves a purpose.

It helps me sell more stuff (whether it be minerals, ships, equipment, drones... etc.)
If the ganked-one quits that is okay, since there will be others to step into their place or even new recruits to the game cuz ganking is seen as fun to some.
It has the possibility to lessen my competition in the industry world. These freighters can move some serious cargo - knock them down a few pegs - awesome.
Plus, with the ganking happening in certain areas - means less of a chance that I get tagged - lol.

I would love to see more of it cuz it can raise prices, have people purchase more stuff to protect themselves better, etc

As far as saying that people are quitting over it -- maybe - maybe not. These freighters cost some isk so to have one ganked might be just another expense in doing business in A GAME.
Striker Out!!
Alternative Splicing
Captain Content and The Contenteers
#58 - 2014-06-16 18:17:54 UTC
Emergent game play is what makes this game great. EvE wouldn't be EvE if bad decisions were not punished regularly. HiSec is already too safe, and too easy a place to make ISK relative to the risk of other areas - why are these ganks a bad thing?

No one sheds a tear for the death of an AFK ratter, no one should be disturbed by the loss of an AFK freighter going through a known choke point. CODE. is simply organized so much more efficiently than its enemies that there is basically no way to stop them. I'm sure there are more people angry at them than they have gankers, they just refuse to organize or educate each other. If an organized resistance actually existed, or if there weren't great herds of easy targets, they wouldn't even be a thing. However, you are never going to see that happen as if anyone were organized, they wouldn't be in hisec. Thus, they really only have to deal with CONCORD, and npc mechanics can be mastered.

Which is what makes CODE. cryptic, and is indicative of the state of the game. Null has reached a critical mass of stagnation. There is nothing a small group of organized people can do in null, nor nothing they want to do out there. Rather, they turn in upon hisec where there is actual content, be that as it may. In an ideal world, Null would be a vibrant place, but it is not. Excessive hisec ganking is a symptom of a stagnant null and low, not a disease in an of itself. Its extremely easy to get into, you have free catalysts for life, and KMs are everywhere to be found. This is compared with other areas of the game, which are not easy to get into, can be difficult to stay ISK postiive, and finding fights is at least half the struggle.

There are no hisec mechanics that can be tweaked to change this without destroying the game.
Anslo
Scope Works
#59 - 2014-06-16 18:19:29 UTC
Give them logi escort. Two to three guardians and you're solid.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#60 - 2014-06-16 18:19:32 UTC
Quote:
It's stupid that concord would allow this to happen.


Actually, CONCORD would not allow this. They would forbid capsuleers with less than -5 security status to use gates that lead to high sec, same as gates that are located there, and same as clone jumping to a station in high sec. They could still go thru wormholes to a systems in High sec.