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[Kronos] Medium Micro Jump Drives

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Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#501 - 2014-05-19 14:53:20 UTC
Spugg Galdon wrote:
Vol Arm'OOO wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone. Thanks for the continued feedback.

We're going to remove Attack Battlecruisers from the list of ships that can use this module in the first iteration, since there are some legitimate concerns with how this would interact with ABCs in small gang combat.


How about returning functionality to the hic infinity point and giving dictors some sort of specialized probe to balance this?



I think that dictors (not HIC's) should be able to fit a "special" 24km warp disruptor that shuts off MJD's (and maybe MWD's) which would give these ships some use outside of bubbling and null sec

I mean.... if people are developing this technology it would stand to reason that people would be developing a countermeasure


There's no need for that, the MJD is the counter to a problem, introducing a counter to a problem's counter would be... counter productive YEEAAAH!
Jessica Danikov
Network Danikov
#502 - 2014-05-19 14:59:03 UTC
Will someone please think of the Logi?

All these jump drives and T2 Logi cruisers are burning everywhere just to keep up- painful with MWDs, nigh impossible with ABs.
Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
#503 - 2014-05-19 15:01:58 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone. Thanks for the continued feedback.

We're going to remove Attack Battlecruisers from the list of ships that can use this module in the first iteration, since there are some legitimate concerns with how this would interact with ABCs in small gang combat.


Wow thats a very specific modul now! Why not make Large Micro Jump Drive only available to Marauders and Combat Battleships aswell?

Meet the Mario Kart 8 - Capsuleer Club Cup
Ines Tegator
Serious Business Inc. Ltd. LLC. etc.
#504 - 2014-05-19 15:03:23 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone. Thanks for the continued feedback.

We're going to remove Attack Battlecruisers from the list of ships that can use this module in the first iteration, since there are some legitimate concerns with how this would interact with ABCs in small gang combat.


Well that's half a step.

Can you at least confirm that you've read the posts about long points and fast tackle? That's the most important issue, and even if no decision is made yet, I want to know that you're aware of it.

Overhaul Dscan!
Ines Tegator
Serious Business Inc. Ltd. LLC. etc.
#505 - 2014-05-19 15:04:13 UTC
Gregor Parud wrote:


There's no need for that, the MJD is the counter to a problem, introducing a counter to a problem's counter would be... counter productive YEEAAAH!



oh you.

Overhaul Dscan!
Rainbow Eyes
Sora no Otoshimano
#506 - 2014-05-19 15:23:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Rainbow Eyes
How about what would MJD interdiction from bubble, faction warpdis, HD beam/sphere, warpdis from interceptor?

And most importantly, it`s give role for interceptors. Warpdis from interceptor interdiction MJD. With the introduction of MMJD meaning Interceptors much lost, and other tacklers too...

If good, then you need to leave MMJD only on fleetcom Command and Transport. You want to solve the problem Combat BC? Allowing him to just run away from the battle, you do not decide, the problem is that BC same slow as BS, but they do not have the range of the weapon. Their only role in tank-close, for everything else perfectly suited Attack BC, they will be overkill with MMJD.

You form botch on botch, so you do not decide only spoil the old, mangled new firewood
Randolph Sykes
Boars on Parade
The Tuskers Co.
#507 - 2014-05-19 15:33:15 UTC
I hope you are still gathering feedback, Fozzie.

So you've confirmed that this new module is an attempt to make combat BCs more viable. The problem is: 100 km jump range and 12 s activation time are fine for battleships, but with CBC we need a different approach.

The main problem with CBCs is that most of them are pure brawlers that lack speed. They don't need a way to run away from kiters. They need something to be able to catch and kill kiters.

What you want to do with MJD for CBC is to drastically reduce its range and base spool up time. I suggest 20 km and 4 s. It allows a CBC pilot to run away from a kiter (but that's still not a 100% trump card - the kiter can react quickly and has some time to position his ship to keep his warp disruptor on the battlecruiser he engages, the kiter can also utilize his warp speed advantage since he is most likely flying a cruiser). It allows to catch a kiter by jumping close to him. It gives a tiny chance to escape bombs.

With this numbers MMJD is not a "i want to leave"-type module. It's something that makes pvp with combat BCs more fun for both sides. It's brain and tactics, you know. Big smile

Mechanics and numbers can differ, but the gist is: combat battlecruisers need a short jump range, not the one battleships enjoy.
King Fu Hostile
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#508 - 2014-05-19 15:35:07 UTC  |  Edited by: King Fu Hostile
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone. Thanks for the continued feedback.

We're going to remove Attack Battlecruisers from the list of ships that can use this module in the first iteration, since there are some legitimate concerns with how this would interact with ABCs in small gang combat.


Good stuff!

Now if you could make the range 50km, MMJD could be considered a tactical combat tool instead of evasion tool.

I'd love to fly old school brawling CBCs like Myrm and Brutix more in solo and small gang, but a GTFO button does not encourage me to do that. I'd prefer a repositioning tool that would allow me to utilize the strengths of a CBC, and not just slowboat futilely until I die.

EDIT: and yes, decreasing the spool-up time would also help like in the post above!

Fozzie, give us tools that result in more, not less explosions!
Annedalda Dixenme
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#509 - 2014-05-19 15:40:02 UTC
Iam Widdershins wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone. Thanks for the continued feedback.

We're going to remove Attack Battlecruisers from the list of ships that can use this module in the first iteration, since there are some legitimate concerns with how this would interact with ABCs in small gang combat.

That (and the deepspace transports) seemed like the only legitimate usage of the modules. Combat battlecruisers can't even really reach out and touch past 100km without great difficulty; the only use would be to provide a very strong immunity to tackle and intervention for PVE battlecruisers, just another step towards a perfect PVE world where nobody has to interact with anybody else if they don't want to.

I strongly urge you to reconsider the module entirely, perhaps restricting it to deepspace transports alone if not putting off the whole idea. MJD is a cool mechanic, it's new and interesting, and it's not necessarily good in proliferation.

Need I also mention the promised mitigating mechanics, anti-jump bubbles, were never implemented. Maybe if interdictor bubbles and scripts were provided that could put up anti-MJD bubbles in any space this would be OK, but if you do that why even have the module in the first place?



The act of fitting and using the MMJD to escape is itself an interaction with the PVP player. The notion that the only true interaction a PVE player would have is to die to the PVP fit ship is ridiculous. The counter to a MJD exists, I'll give you a hint: it's the same counter to the MWD.

In low and null the odds are against PVE players already. I like to hunt them. I like to kill them. I do not support having everything possible stacked against them. I don't need my PVP to be dumbed down for me.

If we're all good boys and girls we might even see these on some PVP ships.
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#510 - 2014-05-19 15:41:11 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone. Thanks for the continued feedback.

We're going to remove Attack Battlecruisers from the list of ships that can use this module in the first iteration, since there are some legitimate concerns with how this would interact with ABCs in small gang combat.

Nooooooo....my talos....
Nagarythe Tinurandir
Einheit X-6
#511 - 2014-05-19 15:42:58 UTC
MJD was the module giving battleships back some edge against battlecruisers and T2 cruisers and one could actually encouter battleships on roams again. why ruin it and introduce it in smaller ships?

isn't the deployable MJD enough?
if it really, really, really needs to happen, make it a thing of DSTs.
ZecsMarquis
The Northerners
Pandemic Horde
#512 - 2014-05-19 15:59:28 UTC
Vol Arm'OOO wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone. Thanks for the continued feedback.

We're going to remove Attack Battlecruisers from the list of ships that can use this module in the first iteration, since there are some legitimate concerns with how this would interact with ABCs in small gang combat.


How about returning functionality to the hic infinity point and giving dictors some sort of specialized probe to balance this?


+1
ZecsMarquis
The Northerners
Pandemic Horde
#513 - 2014-05-19 16:00:54 UTC
Spugg Galdon wrote:
Vol Arm'OOO wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone. Thanks for the continued feedback.

We're going to remove Attack Battlecruisers from the list of ships that can use this module in the first iteration, since there are some legitimate concerns with how this would interact with ABCs in small gang combat.


How about returning functionality to the hic infinity point and giving dictors some sort of specialized probe to balance this?



I think that dictors (not HIC's) should be able to fit a "special" 24km warp disruptor that shuts off MJD's (and maybe MWD's) which would give these ships some use outside of bubbling and null sec

I mean.... if people are developing this technology it would stand to reason that people would be developing a countermeasure


+1
Max Kolonko
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#514 - 2014-05-19 16:09:00 UTC
Vol Arm'OOO wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone. Thanks for the continued feedback.

We're going to remove Attack Battlecruisers from the list of ships that can use this module in the first iteration, since there are some legitimate concerns with how this would interact with ABCs in small gang combat.


How about returning functionality to the hic infinity point and giving dictors some sort of specialized probe to balance this?


This.

Read and support: Don't mess with OUR WH's What is Your stance on WH stuff?
Mike Whiite
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#515 - 2014-05-19 16:18:09 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone. Thanks for the continued feedback.

We're going to remove Attack Battlecruisers from the list of ships that can use this module in the first iteration, since there are some legitimate concerns with how this would interact with ABCs in small gang combat.



Thank you very much
Speedkermit Damo
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#516 - 2014-05-19 16:34:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Speedkermit Damo
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
It seems like you're just releasing stuff because you think it'll be fun to play with, not because it'll actually be balanced and beneficial to the game.


This.

Fozzzie, the last thing EVE needs is even more teleportation.

Protect me from knowing what I don't need to know. Protect me from even knowing that there are things to know that I don't know. Protect me from knowing that I decided not to know about the things that I decided not to know about. Amen.
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#517 - 2014-05-19 16:56:12 UTC
I'm not sure that copying and pasting the jump range, spool up time, and cool down time from the BS module is appropriate given the much more limited range of CBC.
Cyaron wars
Academia RED HOT Corporation
#518 - 2014-05-19 16:57:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Cyaron wars
Dear CCP Fozzie,

Please stop this. Stop promoting coward ways of PVP. We already have "blanket on your face" called Falcon and EC drones, utterly ******** tank modules like dual X-large ASB on ships so ppl can deagro and dock/jump through gate. With this kind of approach you are making nearly every kiting ship useless against BCs. Could you please tell me the outcome of engagement between Prophecy and NOMEN for example after MMJD will be introduced? Can you please define the role of Warp Disruptor in future? We already have anchorable device with similar functionality for people who want to MJD out in any other class then BS. While I understand the reason of fitting such module to field command ships, I don't see any reasonable argument why it must be present on other BCs.

Please do us all a favor and stop trying to re-invent the wheel. We already have it and it is working. Please focus all your efforts and precious time (that we all pay for) on something better then yet another module or ship (like there are few disposable ships in this game).
Elise Randolph
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#519 - 2014-05-19 17:00:45 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone. Thanks for the continued feedback.

We're going to remove Attack Battlecruisers from the list of ships that can use this module in the first iteration, since there are some legitimate concerns with how this would interact with ABCs in small gang combat.


RIP the dream of attack battlecruisers being useful for something other than sniping or AFK POS bashing.

~
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#520 - 2014-05-19 17:08:07 UTC
Cyaron wars wrote:
Dear CCP Fozzie,

Please stop this. Stop promoting coward ways of PVP.


How is it anymore coward than kiting running links and killing pve fit newbies?