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[Kronos] Medium Micro Jump Drives

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Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#461 - 2014-05-19 12:26:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Gregor Parud
Wrathful Penguins wrote:
Fortunately for you the point is no longer going to be important.


it's fine, just not for the few drakes you might run in to. THE HORROR!

See, you're talking about how superior you and your strategy are but what you're actually saying is "I'm really good at running away, look at how awesome I am at running away!" and then when ONE ship type (that's hardly used in the current meta, which won't change because of this module) gets an option to run away from your "run away" strategy you start yapping about how unfair it is.

You want to catch a BC? Go grab it. If you didn't fit for grabbing that BC you won't get it. Rock, paper, scissors. HTFU.
Wrathful Penguins
The Hatchery
#462 - 2014-05-19 12:30:22 UTC
TrouserDeagle wrote:
Michael Harari wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:


yeah but then that person would actually be at risk of dying, which isn't fair apparently


You personally lose kiting ships all the time, why do you think kiting ships dont die?


I think my 'kiting' ships have all died in brawler mode recently.
to your question, because typically they're taking win or draw engagements. I see a similarity between flying a kiting ship with its inherently laughable damage and tank, and flying a lol brawling CBC and gimping yourself to get a MJD on, to get a (less reliable) gtfo ability for use in honourable pvp.

Certainly there are some rock paper scissors engagements in which the kiter knows ahead of time that he'll win but that is the same with any ship type. The brawler on station at zero will only aggress on the kiter if he's already in scram range, otherwise he'll redock etc. But that doesn't making kiting inherently riskless, the classic example used to be pointing a bs with heavy neuts in bcs and cruisers with 24-28k point range. If you were bored and ambitious you'd absolutely try it but whether or not you could achieve it comes entirely down to the skill of the pilots involved. Last night I tried isolating smaller ships when they had a webbing loki on the field, had he been more on the ball or I been less attentive I'd have died.

Kiting gives you a wider engagement profile as a solo pilot, a small part of which is a rock paper scissors win, and a much larger part of which is dependent the skills of the pilots involved. This is a narrowing of that engagement profile and in order to restore it I would have to change my playstyle to include a gang of people and brawling, something I am not exactly eager to do and something which I believe will increase the degree to which whether or not I win or lose is entirely independent of pilot skill.
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#463 - 2014-05-19 12:30:22 UTC
Gregor Parud wrote:


You want to catch a BC? Go grab it. If you didn't fit for grabbing that BC you won't get it. Rock, paper, scissors. HTFU.


Eve would be such an awesome game if everything was decided at the fitting window. This way you wouldnt even need to actually undock, you could just have a fitting tool compare fits and declare a winner!
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#464 - 2014-05-19 12:30:42 UTC
As a sidenote; the more I see people whine about this horrendous change the more I feel Fozzie was actually right; it IS the solution for BCs. the whining is glorious.
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#465 - 2014-05-19 12:31:17 UTC  |  Edited by: TrouserDeagle
Michael Harari wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:
Michael Harari wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:


yeah but then that person would actually be at risk of dying, which isn't fair apparently


You personally lose kiting ships all the time, why do you think kiting ships dont die?


I think my 'kiting' ships have all died in brawler mode recently.
to your question, because typically they're taking win or draw engagements. I see a similarity between flying a kiting ship with its inherently laughable damage and tank, and flying a lol brawling CBC and gimping yourself to get a MJD on, to get a (less reliable) gtfo ability for use in honourable pvp.


In what way does an arty firetail or beam executioner have a brawling mode?


huh, I thought you were talking about tackle atrons. the beam executioners were comedy versions of comedy atrons, which are not conventional kiting ships, because they're slow as ****. it's in a completely different spot on the frigate honour rock/paper/scissors thing. and regarding scram kiting firetails, I kind of classify that as brawling.

edit: great, now I look stupid for being the third person to mention rock paper scissors
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#466 - 2014-05-19 12:33:25 UTC
Michael Harari wrote:
Gregor Parud wrote:


You want to catch a BC? Go grab it. If you didn't fit for grabbing that BC you won't get it. Rock, paper, scissors. HTFU.


Eve would be such an awesome game if everything was decided at the fitting window. This way you wouldnt even need to actually undock, you could just have a fitting tool compare fits and declare a winner!


Is it actually, you fit a long point with nanofibers and MWD which ensures you won't die to slower targets while also fitting for projected dps at 20+ km. This is a choice you make in the fitting window, that's why you use kiting ships in the first place.

Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#467 - 2014-05-19 12:34:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Michael Harari
Gregor Parud wrote:
Michael Harari wrote:
Gregor Parud wrote:


You want to catch a BC? Go grab it. If you didn't fit for grabbing that BC you won't get it. Rock, paper, scissors. HTFU.


Eve would be such an awesome game if everything was decided at the fitting window. This way you wouldnt even need to actually undock, you could just have a fitting tool compare fits and declare a winner!


Is it actually, you fit a long point with nanofibers and MWD which ensures you won't die to slower targets while also fitting for projected dps at 20+ km. This is a choice you make in the fitting window, that's why you use kiting ships in the first place.



As I already said, my current kiting ship has a plate and no nanos. And apart from some travel fit interceptors, its the only fit ship I have for 50 jumps.
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#468 - 2014-05-19 12:38:15 UTC
Michael Harari wrote:
Gregor Parud wrote:
Michael Harari wrote:
Gregor Parud wrote:


You want to catch a BC? Go grab it. If you didn't fit for grabbing that BC you won't get it. Rock, paper, scissors. HTFU.


Eve would be such an awesome game if everything was decided at the fitting window. This way you wouldnt even need to actually undock, you could just have a fitting tool compare fits and declare a winner!


Is it actually, you fit a long point with nanofibers and MWD which ensures you won't die to slower targets while also fitting for projected dps at 20+ km. This is a choice you make in the fitting window, that's why you use kiting ships in the first place.



As I already said, my current kiting ship has a plate and no nanos.


I see you're starting to nit pick, generally not a good sign. My statement stands, fights are won or lost before the fight even happens. That's why you fly and fit as you do. Now whining about how someone else's fitting choice might cramp your style is hilarious.
TheMercenaryKing
Ultimatum.
#469 - 2014-05-19 12:39:38 UTC
Anyone out there aside from me dislike how powerful attack battlecruisers are? I am not saying they are OP, but a minor damage nerf would be nice IMO.
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#470 - 2014-05-19 12:40:36 UTC
Gregor Parud wrote:
Michael Harari wrote:
Gregor Parud wrote:
Michael Harari wrote:
Gregor Parud wrote:


You want to catch a BC? Go grab it. If you didn't fit for grabbing that BC you won't get it. Rock, paper, scissors. HTFU.


Eve would be such an awesome game if everything was decided at the fitting window. This way you wouldnt even need to actually undock, you could just have a fitting tool compare fits and declare a winner!


Is it actually, you fit a long point with nanofibers and MWD which ensures you won't die to slower targets while also fitting for projected dps at 20+ km. This is a choice you make in the fitting window, that's why you use kiting ships in the first place.



As I already said, my current kiting ship has a plate and no nanos.


I see you're starting to nit pick, generally not a good sign. My statement stands, fights are won or lost before the fight even happens. That's why you fly and fit as you do. Now whining about how someone else's fitting choice might cramp your style is hilarious.


Maybe in your game, where you orbit an anchor and its either you have enough logi or you dont, but there are viable game play styles where manual piloting and fast decision making determine fights, rather than who has the most people
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#471 - 2014-05-19 12:40:40 UTC
TheMercenaryKing wrote:
Anyone out there aside from me dislike how powerful attack battlecruisers are? I am not saying they are OP, but a minor damage nerf would be nice IMO.


they are OP. everyone who isn't awful wants them removed.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#472 - 2014-05-19 12:41:17 UTC
afkalt wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Johann Rascali wrote:
I know this is absolute madness, but you could slap an AB on a scram Enyo to bricktackle a MMJDBC while also heaving a decent amount of DPS at it.



issue is. Only some ships are fast enough to go 25 km from one side of gate jump ito scram rnge to tackle a MDJ ship before it gets out. THese ships usually are too weak to fight a Battleship or BC. or they are a T3.

That funnels the small scale PVP even more into T3.



I posted that a caracal before that can do it no problems and would almost certainly survive long enough for the slower ships to get into range.

35k EHP, 2117 m/s

Sure, it won't kill it alone, but it's there for tackle.



So you realize that a player witha BRAIN will click align to a place, overheat MWD while the MDJ spolls up? Movign basically as fast as your caracal? And that means your caracal will take more time to get within 9 km?

Stop witht he spreadsheet thinking. Battleships were easier to catch, but BC will be nearly impossible at a regional gate when you are alone and quite hard if you are unlucky at the gate jump positioning.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

Wrathful Penguins
The Hatchery
#473 - 2014-05-19 12:41:19 UTC
Gregor Parud wrote:
Michael Harari wrote:
Gregor Parud wrote:


You want to catch a BC? Go grab it. If you didn't fit for grabbing that BC you won't get it. Rock, paper, scissors. HTFU.


Eve would be such an awesome game if everything was decided at the fitting window. This way you wouldnt even need to actually undock, you could just have a fitting tool compare fits and declare a winner!


Is it actually, you fit a long point with nanofibers and MWD which ensures you won't die to slower targets while also fitting for projected dps at 20+ km. This is a choice you make in the fitting window, that's why you use kiting ships in the first place.


This would only work if your target selection was limited to ships that were slower than you, had less cap and couldn't project outside of 20km. Every ship can win through RPS but that doesn't mean that pilot skill doesn't matter and that changes which reduce the importance of pilot skill and increase the RPS nature of the game are good. Pilot skill rather than the fit are the determining factor in 99% of my engagements, whether I win or lose.
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#474 - 2014-05-19 12:41:44 UTC
TheMercenaryKing wrote:
Anyone out there aside from me dislike how powerful attack battlecruisers are? I am not saying they are OP, but a minor damage nerf would be nice IMO.


They are decently strong, but frustrating to roam in because of the reduced warp speed, and they are extremely vulnerable to the interceptor meta.
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#475 - 2014-05-19 12:43:05 UTC
Wrathful Penguins wrote:
Gregor Parud wrote:
Michael Harari wrote:
Gregor Parud wrote:


You want to catch a BC? Go grab it. If you didn't fit for grabbing that BC you won't get it. Rock, paper, scissors. HTFU.


Eve would be such an awesome game if everything was decided at the fitting window. This way you wouldnt even need to actually undock, you could just have a fitting tool compare fits and declare a winner!


Is it actually, you fit a long point with nanofibers and MWD which ensures you won't die to slower targets while also fitting for projected dps at 20+ km. This is a choice you make in the fitting window, that's why you use kiting ships in the first place.


This would only work if your target selection was limited to ships that were slower than you, had less cap and couldn't project outside of 20km. Every ship can win through RPS but that doesn't mean that pilot skill doesn't matter and that changes which reduce the importance of pilot skill and increase the RPS nature of the game are good. Pilot skill rather than the fit are the determining factor in 99% of my engagements, whether I win or lose.


Ok, shall we check how many non-kiting ships you've used lately, since it's not about fit at all?
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#476 - 2014-05-19 12:46:30 UTC
Michael Harari wrote:
[Maybe in your game, where you orbit an anchor and its either you have enough logi or you dont, but there are viable game play styles where manual piloting and fast decision making determine fights, rather than who has the most people


And now you're starting to change the subject, which generally is another bad sign of realising you're losing the argument. "who has the most people" has nothing to do with the MMJD, at all. In fact it's the other way round; it allows a BC to get away from a horde of [insert kiting ships but probably crows], surely you'd enjoy other ships than just yours being able to get away from trouble they don't want to handle?
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#477 - 2014-05-19 12:48:52 UTC
Gregor Parud wrote:
Michael Harari wrote:
[Maybe in your game, where you orbit an anchor and its either you have enough logi or you dont, but there are viable game play styles where manual piloting and fast decision making determine fights, rather than who has the most people


And now you're starting to change the subject, which generally is another bad sign of realising you're losing the argument. "who has the most people" has nothing to do with the MMJD, at all. In fact it's the other way round; it allows a BC to get away from a horde of [insert kiting ships but probably crows], surely you'd enjoy other ships than just yours being able to get away from trouble they don't want to handle?


Last 3 interceptor gangs I fought all had scrams. A bc isnt getting away from them. Its also not killing them since the gangs had a sentinel and another 5 or 6 tds.
ZecsMarquis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#478 - 2014-05-19 12:50:20 UTC
Ines Tegator wrote:
Back on topic.

This will allow it to be tackled by multiple long points, or a faction long point, or a scripted HIC (credit to badboymark)


*Edited to update suggestions.


Pretty sure I introduced the idea first. Thanks for reading my post.
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#479 - 2014-05-19 12:50:36 UTC
Michael Harari wrote:
Gregor Parud wrote:
Michael Harari wrote:
[Maybe in your game, where you orbit an anchor and its either you have enough logi or you dont, but there are viable game play styles where manual piloting and fast decision making determine fights, rather than who has the most people


And now you're starting to change the subject, which generally is another bad sign of realising you're losing the argument. "who has the most people" has nothing to do with the MMJD, at all. In fact it's the other way round; it allows a BC to get away from a horde of [insert kiting ships but probably crows], surely you'd enjoy other ships than just yours being able to get away from trouble they don't want to handle?


Last 3 interceptor gangs I fought all had scrams. A bc isnt getting away from them. Its also not killing them since the gangs had a sentinel and another 5 or 6 tds.


you're again evading the main point, good.

Also, nothing will change in that scenario other than said BC gimping himself even more due to wasting a mid slot and fitting. I fail to see the problem?
Faltzs
Thundercats
The Initiative.
#480 - 2014-05-19 12:53:14 UTC
The one of the main reason alot of 0.0 alliance stopped using battlecruisers in fleets is becuase of bombs particulary agaisnt the Attack Battlecrsuiers. How about addressing bombs before adding a new module. (yes mjd bc would help but it opens up more room for sillyness rather than game balance).

But if they probably going ot be in game anyway, the cool down should be greater than that of larger version, 5-6mins atleast.