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[Kronos] Medium Micro Jump Drives

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Author
Dr Jihad Alhariri
Dr Jihad's Brigade of Interstellar Mujahideen
#81 - 2014-05-17 19:26:34 UTC
I strongly oppose this mod as it currently stands.

As other posters have mentioned, Medium MJDs will only make good fights and ganks harder to find. We want gameplay options that expand PvP, not shrink it.

Eve already has a gratuitous amount of gameplay options that promote risk aversion and reduce PvP. We don't need more.
Bosquit
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#82 - 2014-05-17 19:26:44 UTC
Saul Elsyn wrote:
I think people that are complaining the most here are forgetting just how situationally based MJDs are. They're good for getting out of bubbles and escaping bombing runs, but that's about it... And they require a level of skill and situational awareness to use. Considering it's the smallest ships that are the ones most likely to die in a bombing run, good for CCP... in fact CCP, give em to cruiser hulls in general.

What's the Small Micro-Jump Drive going to be mounted on? Destroyers? Cruisers? HACs? HICs? Interdictors? Makes you wonder.



Ok the thing about MJD's is they really aren't all that situational. Any Sniping platform will be easily able to use them, and lets be honest, most battlecruisers can be made into sniping ships, especially the Naga, etc. The attack Battlecruisers for the most part will not need an MWD, because burning with large long range guns is dumb. The MMJD allows them to reposition without warping ( at this point what is the point of probing down snipers, if they are aligned they warp, if they get caught and bubbled they MMJD). Other battlecruisers will have options to dual prop, which will reduce tank, but they are sniping ships so I mean tank is whatever most of the time.

Where you will see this being even more annoying is bricked tanked battlecruisers, just like the BS they will sit and tank and brawl, and if they want to leave, they just can, unless you have a swarm of frigates with scrams (which is generally suicide with medium guns.

The problem is that battlecruisers are fairly agile, and with MWD's battlecruisers are difficult to hold down. So what does this mod allow for gameplay, really just a lot of running away. The counters to it are too little to allow some sort of adequate counter to it, cause allowing one mod to stop it, is pretty bad for gameplay and variety.

"Insert Philosophical Statement Here"

DekTo2
Faceless Ronins
COASTAL BROTHERHOOD
#83 - 2014-05-17 19:29:00 UTC
Terrible idea.
ElextriX
Latrunculi
#84 - 2014-05-17 19:31:06 UTC
Welp what a horrible change. Small gang/Solo gets nerfed again. Battleships also getting indirectly nerfed. How about some development in tackle CCP?

This strategy of increasing survivability with so many ships is killing small gang pvp. As a solo/duo pvper it's very hard to find targets any more because most people can avoid combat in one of a billion ways.....and this is another step. I'm not even going to bother explaining the obvious problems with kiting after this change either.
penifSMASH
ElitistOps
Goonswarm Federation
#85 - 2014-05-17 19:38:17 UTC
Properly fit Attack Battlecruisers and Command Ships are really tight on PG and CPU, and MMJDs hog them up. You can't fit one without seriously gimping your fit in some other way. Everyone ITT is crying too much.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#86 - 2014-05-17 19:39:09 UTC
Elise Randolph wrote:
which is kind of annoying since catching people with their pants down is already a pain in the butt.


that made me giggle.

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.

Irya Boone
The Scope
#87 - 2014-05-17 19:40:13 UTC
T3 should have it First and RECON Ships and after that ok for BC but for BC make it very difficult to fit without sacrifing a lot of damage output

CCP it's time to remove Off Grid Boost and Put Them on Killmail too, add Logi on killmails .... Open that damn door !!

you shall all bow and pray BoB

Onslaughtor
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#88 - 2014-05-17 19:41:45 UTC
I'm just going to say that Attack battle-cruisers are already very hard to pin down. This will really only make it worse... It may be a good idea to look in to making it so ABCs can't use this MMJD.

Also the range and recharge time should be smaller, to that there is a distinct difference between battleship and battlecruiser combat. Something like 60km and 2min recharge would make things much more interesting.
Bosquit
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#89 - 2014-05-17 19:47:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Bosquit
penifSMASH wrote:
Properly fit Attack Battlecruisers and Command Ships are really tight on PG and CPU, and MMJDs hog them up. You can't fit one without seriously gimping your fit in some other way. Everyone ITT is crying too much.


It's a 15pg increase to a meta 10mn mwd, and 1 cpu. That is not a massive increase in fitting to cause a problem for people especially with genolutions and pg implants. At most you would lose a small amount of tank on some things, maybe a rig, or you meta a tank mod, it is not a serious "gimping" as you put it.

"Insert Philosophical Statement Here"

Tikktokk Tokkzikk
V0LTA
WE FORM V0LTA
#90 - 2014-05-17 19:56:33 UTC
I've used large MJD a lot, and I can't wait to try these! Big smile

Though I think 50-75km jump range and 6-9 second spool-up would be more fun and balanced for everyone since battlecruisers already operate with more speed and shorter range. It would also keep it around the same jump-range:lock-range and align-time:spool-up-time ratio as battleships.
Aliventi
Mouth Trumpet Cavalry.
Mouth Trumpet Cavalry
#91 - 2014-05-17 19:57:16 UTC
I think this is a terrible idea. It is really imbalanced. The last thing the super mobile Attack BCs need is more mobility.

However seeing how I doubt you will back out of this plan, can we reduce the range? Once of the nice things is that most BS could MJD and still be within lock range and still fire after they exited the MJD 100km away. Most combat BCs and such don't have the luxury of 100+KM lock and damage range. 65-75km should good.
Joe Baarim
Baarim Industries
#92 - 2014-05-17 20:07:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Joe Baarim
I like the idea of a MMJD for BCs, but only if it was shorter jump range. Around 50KM would be a good spot. And perhaps a shorter spool time.

100km is too beneficial to ABCs. Continue to force them to make tactical bookmarks or have scouts burning out to warp to if you want them hopping around sniping. 100km is also too long of range for combat BCs that would more than likely be hopping far outside of their ranges. Unless the plan is to only have it as an escape tool... which I do not agree with.
Money Makin Mitch
Paid in Full
#93 - 2014-05-17 20:14:44 UTC
another terrible idea.
PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders
#94 - 2014-05-17 20:16:47 UTC
Cool, I like it.
penifSMASH
ElitistOps
Goonswarm Federation
#95 - 2014-05-17 20:28:10 UTC  |  Edited by: penifSMASH
Bosquit wrote:
penifSMASH wrote:
Properly fit Attack Battlecruisers and Command Ships are really tight on PG and CPU, and MMJDs hog them up. You can't fit one without seriously gimping your fit in some other way. Everyone ITT is crying too much.


It's a 15pg increase to a meta 10mn mwd, and 1 cpu. That is not a massive increase in fitting to cause a problem for people especially with genolutions and pg implants. At most you would lose a small amount of tank on some things, maybe a rig, or you meta a tank mod, it is not a serious "gimping" as you put it.


It is a serious gimp if you dual prop mjd/mwd your command ships. Or in the case of tier 3 BCs they'll have to choose between an MWD or MJD, each of which has its advantages and disadvantages.
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
#96 - 2014-05-17 20:29:04 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Although I fully understand the emotions involved when debating changes like these, I would strongly urge everybody to keep the discussion civil and on topic.
Also keep in mind that calmly stated pro/con comments, preferably enhanced by real use scenarios, have a far greater chance of being taken serious by the developers then stark raving mad rants. CCP Greyscale has recently written an excellent post on what a good feedback post on a (proposed) change should look like.

That said, I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them. As always I let some edge cases stay.

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Thread reopened.

ISD Ezwal Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

maCH'EttE
Perkone
Caldari State
#97 - 2014-05-17 21:51:58 UTC
this is absoultyly dumbest bull crap i have seen in eve.
kill pvp even more. now you gonna have poeople jump like grasshoppers.
YOU KILLIN EVE AND YOU DONT EVEN KNOW IT.
Flyinghotpocket
Doomheim
#98 - 2014-05-17 21:54:46 UTC
so basically this is a buff to attack battlecruisers. STILL no point in flying normal bc's or commandships.

make attack bc's even harder to catch.

this could only work if they make scrams 70k or attack bc's cannot use these mods. otherwise. do not put this module in game.

absolution? 3 mids? so you gotta have a micro on the abso because its slow. then you gotta have a MJD. then your stuck with a point or an injector. no no no.

Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro

Templar Dane
Amarrian Vengeance
Team Amarrica
#99 - 2014-05-17 21:56:47 UTC
Repackage and sell your battleships guys. The true age of the attack battlecruiser has begun.
kogelbiefstuk
Contraband lnc
Appetite 4 Destruction.
#100 - 2014-05-17 22:00:19 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone! We've happy to announce that in the Kronos release we will be introducing a new medium version of the Micro Jump Drive!

This module will begin restricted to Battlecruisers, Command Ships and Deep Space Transports. We will consider expanding it to some other classes in the future but that is a discussion for after we've seen how they work out on these initial groups.

The MMJD uses the same Micro Jump Drive Operation skill as the LMJD and has the same range (100km), spool up (12s base reduced by the skill) and cooldown (3 minutes) as the Large version.

It has the following requirements:
Powergrid: 165
CPU: 51
Capacitor: 197

We expect that these modules will be a very exciting option for battlecruisers (especially attack battlecruisers) in both fleets and small gangs.

Battlecruisers have been a little overshadowed by battleships and cruisers in recent months and having the option to use MJDs combined with their dps and low cost should create some interesting chances for clever players to show off their abilities.

These modules will be on SISI for your testing pleasure soon. Let us know what you think!



ok ccp, why dont we just take out warp disrupters then!!!