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[Kronos] Pirate Faction Cruisers

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Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#801 - 2014-04-10 13:32:36 UTC
War Kitten wrote:
Anhenka wrote:
Gila changes make me sad.

Will be easily kited to death by a t1 frigate able to outrun slow mediums, and a 500% bonus to drone HP won't save them if a cruiser sized hull decides to pop drones. 4x the health of paper is still paper. And when one pops, you lose the vast majority of your dps.

Just ew. Bleeeh. Need to go sell my WH site fit Gila to people who don't read dev blogs before summer hits.

I honestly don't know what you have against the Guristas ships...


LOL - slightly absurd example there. If you're being kited by a frigate outrunning your 4875 m/s Valkyrie IIs, turn around and get out of his point range. That or put him down with your RLML IIs

I actually think this Gila change could be interesting. 2 Medium drones with the dps of 6 heavies and tank, speed and tracking of assault frigates has potential. Think of it as having a drone bay full of 10 Enyos that you can launch 2 at a time. If your target wastes his DPS taking out one of your drones, launch another one. You have 8 spares.


Yeah, that's just an awesome example.

You just have to give up a midslot, likely tank.
Plus, you are only giving up how much damage with your example? The 10% drone spec skill does not apply to them.
And hell, they only cost 1.8 million each. No biggie when they get popped, right?

Bottom line, this is an awful design.
Anthar Thebess
#802 - 2014-04-10 13:43:44 UTC
Give sansha shield modules and sansha afterburner to Sansha Phantasm.

Why sansha have only armor modules when all their faction ships are shield based and will have bonus to AB?

Stop discrimination, help in a fight against terrorists

Show your support to The Cause!
Icewolf7
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#803 - 2014-04-10 14:00:50 UTC
Fabulous Rod wrote:
Imiarr Timshae wrote:
Well I will simply never use my gila again.

Edit : I don't ever use my gila it's so bad already. I guess I'll just continue to never use my gila.

Good work as ever Roll (SARCASM)

Edit : Concerns over Gila

1. Far less damage
2. Inability to use sentry drones.
3. Removal of all shield tanking sentry ships (cruiser class) from the game.
4. Massive lack of adaptability.
5. Un-bonused light drones.

In short - You have nerfed the gila, which was admittedly already one of the worst pirate cruisers.


How have these concerns not been addressed in 40+ pages.

Is there anyone who actually use a gila who wants these ridiculous changes that make Guristas have extreme niche application?


there seem to be a few pilots saying "oh boy this will spark my interest to fly the Gila(even though it seems they have never used one)"

The entire reason behind the Gurista's changes seems to be to get rid of as much drones on the field as possible.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#804 - 2014-04-10 14:08:02 UTC
War Kitten wrote:
Anhenka wrote:
Gila changes make me sad.

Will be easily kited to death by a t1 frigate able to outrun slow mediums, and a 500% bonus to drone HP won't save them if a cruiser sized hull decides to pop drones. 4x the health of paper is still paper. And when one pops, you lose the vast majority of your dps.

Just ew. Bleeeh. Need to go sell my WH site fit Gila to people who don't read dev blogs before summer hits.

I honestly don't know what you have against the Guristas ships...


LOL - slightly absurd example there. If you're being kited by a frigate outrunning your 4875 m/s Valkyrie IIs, turn around and get out of his point range. That or put him down with your RLML IIs

I actually think this Gila change could be interesting. 2 Medium drones with the dps of 6 heavies and tank, speed and tracking of assault frigates has potential. Think of it as having a drone bay full of 10 Enyos that you can launch 2 at a time. If your target wastes his DPS taking out one of your drones, launch another one. You have 8 spares.


Right, and mobile depot means more than 8 spares. And every second someone is shooting at your (now faster and more tanky small sig) drones is a second they aren't shooting at you.

With the bonuses they'll be getting, the new Gila Droens won't actualylbe drones any more, but more like Honorverse Style LACs lol. There is imo much more chance of people finding the situation grossly overpowered than of people hating the change because of the loss of the sentry drone crutch.
Flyinghotpocket
Small Focused Memes
Ragequit Cancel Sub
#805 - 2014-04-10 14:09:43 UTC
Draco Knight wrote:
Give the ashimmu nos range bonus only and give back the 1 high slot, loose 1 med slot for the additional 1 low slot instead.
Would be so much more brawler!!!
Could even nano it with the additional speed boost... lol!

Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Corpum A-Type Medium Nosferatu
Corpum A-Type Medium Nosferatu
Corpum A-Type Medium Nosferatu

Warp Disruptor II
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I

Medium Armor Repairer II
Medium Ancillary Armor Repairer, Nanite Repair Paste
Damage Control II
Heat Sink II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II

Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Medium Nanobot Accelerator I
Medium Nanobot Accelerator I

no god no. loosing a mid on this ship will be devastating. this fit doesnt work on any of the 3 mid amarr ships and it wont work on this ship either.

Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro
gascanu
Bearing Srl.
#806 - 2014-04-10 14:28:55 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
*Snip* Removed reply to a deleted post. ISD Ezwal.

the new gila will be a close range boat and that's it about "new opportunities"
the gila as it it right now in eve is by far more versatile than this "rebalanced" gila;
atm you can use it to do about anything, from close range brawler to a long range sniper; after the change you will be stuck with medium drones, while an ishtar for example will be abble to chose what types of drones should deploy: sentrys or heavys or medium or lights or ecm(or even salvage drones, lol);
see, this^^ really sounds like allot of opportunities...
Vadeim Rizen
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#807 - 2014-04-10 15:04:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Vadeim Rizen
So I like that you reduced the nerf to the cynabal's powergrid, but I'm curious why there is still a nerf to powergrid at all? For artillery as it is I already require an ACR. Having to add a 2nd ACR would really make the arty cynabal even weaker than it already is. I'm having trouble seeing what it is you are trying to accomplish here. You're adding warp speed, but reducing the scan resolution and overall fitting, so it's kind of conflicting ideas on whether or not it's to be a cruiser/interceptor hybrid.... I like the idea of having a fast assault cruiser that does mediocre dps, but there is no tank if you take away pwg. as it stands right now my arty cynabal has 1 acr, and can only fit 1 lse with the medium neut. That's about 20k ehp, and does not need to be nerfed as that's already pretty week. There are assault frigs that are around that ehp. The cap life is already not very good after previous nerfs, and now a ship that's strength is supposed to be warping around like a frig is getting yet another nerf to cap regeneration, scan res, and tank.


TL;DR If you're going to mess with the cynabal, do it right... make your mind up on what this ship is supposed to be and quit making me change my fits if we're just going to go around in circles and not accomplish anything here.


EDIT: It's ok to just leave it alone all together. Nobody would be mad at you. Actually it appears from 95% percent of the posters here we'd rather you just leave it alone to begin with.
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#808 - 2014-04-10 15:21:47 UTC
Vadeim Rizen wrote:

EDIT: It's ok to just leave it alone all together. Nobody would be mad at you. Actually it appears from 95% percent of the posters here we'd rather you just leave it alone to begin with.


but it's awful
Vadeim Rizen
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#809 - 2014-04-10 15:23:13 UTC
TrouserDeagle wrote:
Vadeim Rizen wrote:

EDIT: It's ok to just leave it alone all together. Nobody would be mad at you. Actually it appears from 95% percent of the posters here we'd rather you just leave it alone to begin with.


but it's awful



It's better than it would be with his proposed changes.
Jamir Von Lietuva
Nameless Minions
GaNg BaNg TeAm
#810 - 2014-04-10 15:55:55 UTC
OK, lets put it simple.

Why would anyone fly a kiting Cynabal after the changes over a kiting GIla, Vagabond or a rail Deimos?
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#811 - 2014-04-10 16:13:03 UTC
Jamir Von Lietuva wrote:
OK, lets put it simple.

Why would anyone fly a kiting Cynabal after the changes over a kiting GIla, Vagabond or a rail Deimos?


the only reason i can think of it cos i've got a cynabal but not a vagabond

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
LaserzPewPew
Hard Knocks Inc.
Hard Knocks Citizens
#812 - 2014-04-10 16:17:22 UTC
While we are trying to make a valid use for medium drones, can we have the signature resolution of their weapons looked at? Both medium and heavy drones have 125 sig res.

Also, a missile bonus on a drone boat has very little place. The Gila should have a medium drone speed/tracking buff. After all, if you want medium drones to be used someday in the future, they need to be capable of compensating for the terrible drone AI that is now.
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#813 - 2014-04-10 16:23:42 UTC
LaserzPewPew wrote:

Also, a missile bonus on a drone boat has very little place.


why
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#814 - 2014-04-10 16:26:10 UTC
LaserzPewPew wrote:
Also, a missile bonus on a drone boat has very little place. The Gila should have a medium drone speed/tracking buff. After all, if you want medium drones to be used someday in the future, they need to be capable of compensating for the terrible drone AI that is now.

The Guristas ships are based on Caldari hulls (or vice-versa), so yes - they should have a missile bonus. The kinetic/thermal missile bonus is actually a welcome change. As for the drones, the new passive low-slot navigation and omni modules should help with any speed and tracking issues. Let's not also forget that medium drones are getting a velocity buff as well.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Silivar Karkun
Doomheim
#815 - 2014-04-10 16:52:20 UTC
Mr Floydy wrote:
Silivar Karkun wrote:
so, the Gila now has the same idiotic bonus as the worm, and its bandwidth is nerfed so in case of getting attacked by frigates it has only the backup of 4 unbonused light drones.....pfffff....


So what? The Gila get's to join load of other ships in the game that are vulnerable to frigates. In exchange it's going to be pretty brutal against other cruisers.

Is it just me that seems to think all the Gila pilots here seem to want something that can do everything solo? Eg massively tanky, does huge missile dps, can use sentries to hit hard at 50+km whilst also being able to tear apart frigates? You can't have everything guys. Many ships in this game have some weaknesses vs certain other classes yet that doesn't stop them being great fun and highly affective in other situations.

New Gila is going to be great fun. If you want the drone options the old Gila had - fly an Ishtar.


that's the issue, changing it for the sake of making it unique, the ship was unique already IMO, it didnt need that 500% bullshit, it was a caldari hull with drones, now is a bad match of gallente bonuses (kin and therm bonus?, really?) with insane bonus and awfull bandwidth, disguised as a caldari hull.....

the Gila was ok, if PvP people doesnt saw use in it, its not my problem, but this change will kill the Gurista line, what's the point of having 2 overpowered med drones if you will only be able to use them for hunting down cruisers and above ships, if you're gonna die to a small frigate, cause your overpowered drones cannot follow and track it...

i expect this ship line will get forgotten more than it is right now, those bonuses will prove to be useless in the future......
Silivar Karkun
Doomheim
#816 - 2014-04-10 17:01:59 UTC
gascanu wrote:
Laiannah Sahireen wrote:
Fabulous Rod wrote:
Why do you ******* devs feel the need to change anything about Guristas. The best part about missiles is the ease of switching damage types and you do your best to give them a niche application. We spend years training these skill intensive ships because we like what they do and you change them to be "new and exciting". All the time I spent maxing out sentries for my Guristas now worthless to me. **** you.


Judging by this post and the 5 that followed it, I'd say the neckbeard rage is strong with this one.

Just because you're bad at adapting and terrified of change, doesn't mean the rest of us shouldn't get interesting new options. Sentries fit on a ton of boats, not just the Gila and RS.

If you pull your head out of your rear, you'll probably see a lot of new opportunities that you couldn't see before.


in fact is quite the opposite: the new gila will be a close range boat and that's it about "new opportunities"
the gila as it it right now in eve is by far more versatile than this "rebalanced" gila;
atm you can use it to do about anything, from close range brawler to a long range sniper; after the change you will be stuck with medium drones, while an ishtar for example will be abble to chose what types of drones should deploy: sentrys or heavys or medium or lights or ecm(or even salvage drones, lol);
see, this^^ really sounds like allot of opportunities...


so, the pirate ship which is T1 and requires two racial lines will be locked to a niche aplication, while a T2 ship is a drone generalist......those roles are at the reverse

the Ishtar is a T2 ship, according to the tech chart presented by CCP, it should be a niche ship, the Gila is a pirate faction ship, a direct upgrade in power above Navy and T1 ships, so it should be a general upgrade above its supposed hull....

the Ishtar should be the ship with the 500% bonus.....not the Gurista ships then.......something is not right there......
Laiannah Sahireen
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#817 - 2014-04-10 17:24:53 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
*Snip* Removed reply to a deleted post. ISD Ezwal.

*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.

With the right modules and the right pilot skill, the Gila will be a total beast rather than a different coloured Ishtar with no range or tracking bonuses.

There are a ton of opportunities here now that Amarr and Caldari drones are getting love, the fact that medium drones will be faster in general and the fact that it will be able to use RLMLs with a hefty damage bonus to wreck frigates.

*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#818 - 2014-04-10 17:28:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
Laiannah Sahireen wrote:
There are a ton of opportunities here now that Amarr and Caldari drones are getting love, the fact that medium drones will be faster in general and the fact that it will be able to use RLMLs will a hefty damage bonus to wreck frigates.

I think thus sums it up nicely. Whether this holds for the Rattlesnake remains to be seen… I'll be ecstatic with just the missile damage bonus.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#819 - 2014-04-10 22:09:31 UTC
I have removed several rule breaking posts and those quoting them. As always I let some edge cases stay.
Please people, keep it on topic and above all civil!

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Thread unlocked.

ISD Ezwal Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#820 - 2014-04-10 22:48:25 UTC
Vadeim Rizen wrote:
So I like that you reduced the nerf to the cynabal's powergrid, but I'm curious why there is still a nerf to powergrid at all? For artillery as it is I already require an ACR. Having to add a 2nd ACR would really make the arty cynabal even weaker than it already is. I'm having trouble seeing what it is you are trying to accomplish here. You're adding warp speed, but reducing the scan resolution and overall fitting, so it's kind of conflicting ideas on whether or not it's to be a cruiser/interceptor hybrid.... I like the idea of having a fast assault cruiser that does mediocre dps, but there is no tank if you take away pwg. as it stands right now my arty cynabal has 1 acr, and can only fit 1 lse with the medium neut. That's about 20k ehp, and does not need to be nerfed as that's already pretty week. There are assault frigs that are around that ehp. The cap life is already not very good after previous nerfs, and now a ship that's strength is supposed to be warping around like a frig is getting yet another nerf to cap regeneration, scan res, and tank.
[...]


I'd actually prefer if a cut into PG would be accompanied by a focus on those now defined ceptor-traits. Like trading off PG and thus a couple big mods against warpspeed and a massreduction 8)

That augmented warpspeed would place it in a fast-warping cruiser category with the tengu and proteus using their respective prop subs, the cynabal as a pirateversion of that class should have a firm stand against the other two significantly slower, but many times tankier Tech III alternatives.