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[Kronos] Pirate Faction Cruisers

First post First post First post
Author
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners
Already Replaced.
#1041 - 2014-04-14 18:00:24 UTC
Hedge Fox wrote:
Ugh.

WTS LOTS OF GILAs.


I'll buy them lol. No backsees though when they prove to be overpowered and the price goes way up this summer.
Pandora Myuki
Thunderwaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#1042 - 2014-04-14 20:41:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Pandora Myuki
From Aryth in the drone assist thread

"How to understand what CCP is going to do in one easy post.

Step 1: Is something overpowered? If Yes, go to step 2
Step 2: Are goons abusing it yet? If Yes, go to step 3
Step 3: Nerf"

CCP Rise hates group warfare so I'm sure he is happy to his changes go into effect. As stated earlier, He has done more to ruin nul sec pvp then any other devs in the history of CCP. Catering to the high sec pubbie groups is something we must get used to I guess.
syrokos
harlyq syrokos investment station
Goonswarm Federation
#1043 - 2014-04-14 20:49:54 UTC
Pandora Myuki wrote:
From Aryth in the drone assist thread

"How to understand what CCP is going to do in one easy post.

Step 1: Is something overpowered? If Yes, go to step 2
Step 2: Are goons abusing it yet? If Yes, go to step 3
Step 3: Nerf"

CCP Rise hates Group warfare so I'm sure he is happy to his changes go into effect. As stated earlier, He has done more to ruin nul sec pvp then any other devs in the history of CCP. Catering to the high sec pubbie groups is something we must get used to I guess.




I agree with this statement. I have been camping gates in 2r with a group for years and now that interceptors enter warp insta in groups or singly. We have no way to catch them on gates. But I guess ELITE interceptor ganking is pvp these days.

R.I.P. Ashimmu
Julian DeCroix
Socialist Death Panel
#1044 - 2014-04-14 20:52:08 UTC
CCP_Rise wrote:
It's also not like Gallente never use missiles.

Out of the 63 Gallente ship hulls currently available in-game, only 11 have even a single launcher hardpoint. Only 4 of those have more than a single launcher hardpoint. Only 2 of those have a hull bonus that applies to missile use. While technically accurate to say that it's "not like Gallente never use missiles", it's hardly representative of the current culture, either.

CCP_Rise wrote:
Until recently all the Roden ships used them.

Until recently, heavy missile were widely considered a legitimate medium-size weapon system. Until recently, rapid launchers were used as more than a gimmick, one-trick-pony launcher system.

And by the same token, until recently there wasn't much reason to use any T1 Industrial other than an IteronV, whereas now there are several very useful T1 Industrials depending on your needs. The big difference there is that you had many different ships that all performed almost exactly the same function, and without removing utility from the "best" of them, some of the other nigh-unto-useless hulls were given an actual purpose other than simply stepping stones.

I am having difficulty coming up with another recent change that actually took something useless and made it useful. The opposite, however...
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
#1045 - 2014-04-14 21:09:37 UTC
I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them. As always I let some edge cases stay.
Please people, keep it on topic and above all civil!

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epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#1046 - 2014-04-14 22:27:54 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
CCP RISE

I am really happy with the use of boosted medium drones on the gila, great idea, It keeps the ship nicely mobile and plays to its strengths .

But I have a major concern.

With light drones, we have gone from 7.5 effective drones with 50% extra damage resists to 4 weak unassisted vulnerable drones.

Even with the changes coming to medium drones in the summer, this leaves the ship horribly vulnerable to fast small ships.
I am also concerned that you have not mentioned or replied to this issue.

Please respond, or consider this point.

A lot of people need their mind put to rest on this, as it affects both PvE and PvP.

Maybe you have a solution?

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE

Teras Lakkos
SuperMassive Torque
#1047 - 2014-04-15 00:10:52 UTC
Does it bother anybody else that the Phantasm still has a 15/15 drone bay?

Real drone bay please.

Or just remove it altogether for more damage or tracking...
Mariner6
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1048 - 2014-04-15 00:48:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Mariner6
Let me start by quoting CCP Fozzie:

"At the frigate level with the Daredevil, the power of 90% webs primarily comes from range control. At the battleship level with the Vindicator it primarily comes from transversal control (especially when used as a force multiplier). At the cruiser level it falls in the middle and ends up being (relatively speaking) less powerful and less oppressive as a result."

That said I find the counters to all three of these boats fairly reasonable and numerous. Which is why you really don't see many of them compared to some of the other choices. Plus committing these boats to a fight is always win..or die. Not like some of the kiting/GTFO options that exist in the other hulls.

I've been glad to see these boats keep their web bonus...but of the three that certainly did not need a power grid nerf, it's the Vigilant. You hardly see them used, and you'll see them less now. There is just simply nothing OP about a boat you can just neut and kill with ease.
Viribus
TRIBE Reloaded
#1049 - 2014-04-15 01:17:56 UTC
So the Cynabal is basically a Vagabond that gains the ability to get on grid quickly while losing the ability to do anything useful on grid. Sweeeeeeeeeeet

Rise, dawg, I love what you've done with most of the pirate faction stuff. Really. But man you've gotta figure out a unique role for the non-Machariel Angel ships that sets them apart from their Minmatar counterparts. "Warping quickly" isn't a role, especially not when once they warp somewhere they basically just provide moderate DPS. The Mach gets a pass because it's the only battleship that can sort of kite and keep up with cruisers, and even then its role as fast battleship-sized DPS has been somewhat superseded by tier 3 BCs.

Serp ships are the only ones with 90% webs, Blood ships are the only ones with pre-nerf nosferatus, Sansha ships are the only non-T3s with AB bonuses, the Gurista ships aren't all that unique but drones are so broken at the moment it doesn't really matter. The Cynabal needs something to set it apart from the zillion other cruiser-sized kiting ships. A point range bonus, MWD cap use bonus, some sort of ewar/tackle resistance, anything. Hell at this point I'd be satisfied with a TP bonus. Just something to make it more than a Vagabond that's better in some ways and worse in a whole lot more.

I think you're seriously overestimating how useful all the Angel ships are seen by PVPers in 2014. Even the Machariel collects dust in this age of 2km/s cruisers, MWD-sig-reduced HACs, and ubiquitous interceptors.
M1k3y Koontz
THE AESIR.
Hostile Probes
#1050 - 2014-04-15 01:25:14 UTC
Teras Lakkos wrote:
Does it bother anybody else that the Phantasm still has a 15/15 drone bay?

Real drone bay please.

Or just remove it altogether for more damage or tracking...


^ This, I thought they were getting rid of half-way dronebays.

25m3 or nothing! :/

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.

Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1051 - 2014-04-15 02:11:20 UTC
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
^ This, I thought they were getting rid of half-way dronebays.
You might want to look again at the current cruisers, Caldari T1 lineup especially puts the idea of getting rid of partial drone bays to bed.
Draco Knight
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#1052 - 2014-04-15 11:54:53 UTC
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:
Sadly the nerfs to the Ashimmu's web strength (in lieu of range) will make what was a very cool hull 'meh' overall.

If you must nerf the 90% webs, then recommend a small buff to neut/nos amount and range also.


I agree completely, 20% bonus to nos effectiveness and range.
Cannibal Kane
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1053 - 2014-04-15 12:50:25 UTC
Hi CCP Rise.

The Vigilant still has a -150PG Nerf.

Please don't make an already scarcely used ship even less used. I like the Vigi where it is now due it's uniqueness. It might seem to be an OP ship but do consider in it current State it is an extremely expensive ship and also expensive to fit for MAX Buffer and DPS.

"Kane is the End Boss of Highsec." -Psychotic Monk

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1054 - 2014-04-15 13:35:40 UTC
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:
Sadly the nerfs to the Ashimmu's web strength (in lieu of range) will make what was a very cool hull 'meh' overall.

If you must nerf the 90% webs, then recommend a small buff to neut/nos amount and range also.


Personally I don't mind the loss of web strength on the Ashimmu as much as I mind the powergrid nerf.

But the buff to nos amount you're talking about it already there, the patch in question contains a decent buff to nos mechanics.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#1055 - 2014-04-15 15:08:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Harvey James
is it just me or is the Ashimmu cpu very tight now ? more cpu please
pg seems a little tight also .. reduce the pg nerf please

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using

Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#1056 - 2014-04-15 15:14:00 UTC
Mariner6 wrote:
Let me start by quoting CCP Fozzie:

"At the frigate level with the Daredevil, the power of 90% webs primarily comes from range control. At the battleship level with the Vindicator it primarily comes from transversal control (especially when used as a force multiplier). At the cruiser level it falls in the middle and ends up being (relatively speaking) less powerful and less oppressive as a result."

That said I find the counters to all three of these boats fairly reasonable and numerous. Which is why you really don't see many of them compared to some of the other choices. Plus committing these boats to a fight is always win..or die. Not like some of the kiting/GTFO options that exist in the other hulls.

I've been glad to see these boats keep their web bonus...but of the three that certainly did not need a power grid nerf, it's the Vigilant. You hardly see them used, and you'll see them less now. There is just simply nothing OP about a boat you can just neut and kill with ease.


part of this issue thought is the fact that 60% webs do the job in most circumstances in a fleet there will be multiple 60% webs..
so part of the issue is too nerf 60% webs down to a less powerful figure so that if you really need too pin something serpentis would be great at say 75% strength compared to say a basic 45% web ...

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using

TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#1057 - 2014-04-15 15:49:01 UTC
Mariner6 wrote:
Let me start by quoting CCP Fozzie:

"At the frigate level with the Daredevil, the power of 90% webs primarily comes from range control. At the battleship level with the Vindicator it primarily comes from transversal control (especially when used as a force multiplier). At the cruiser level it falls in the middle and ends up being (relatively speaking) less powerful and less oppressive as a result."

That said I find the counters to all three of these boats fairly reasonable and numerous. Which is why you really don't see many of them compared to some of the other choices. Plus committing these boats to a fight is always win..or die. Not like some of the kiting/GTFO options that exist in the other hulls.

I've been glad to see these boats keep their web bonus...but of the three that certainly did not need a power grid nerf, it's the Vigilant. You hardly see them used, and you'll see them less now. There is just simply nothing OP about a boat you can just neut and kill with ease.


rail DD. also, other than being very far away, the only counters are things that counter everything. another reason you don't see vigilants is because they're cruisers, but they don't have the battleship tank you need on a cruiser to not instantly die in gang combat.
Flyinghotpocket
Amarrian Vengeance
Team Amarrica
#1058 - 2014-04-15 21:21:50 UTC
Viribus wrote:
So the Cynabal is basically a Vagabond that gains the ability to get on grid quickly while losing the ability to do anything useful on grid. Sweeeeeeeeeeet

Rise, dawg, I love what you've done with most of the pirate faction stuff. Really. But man you've gotta figure out a unique role for the non-Machariel Angel ships that sets them apart from their Minmatar counterparts. "Warping quickly" isn't a role,

it is a role since high sec freighter ganking is a eve career

Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro

Euripedies
Hot Droppin Cherry Poppers
#1059 - 2014-04-15 21:28:32 UTC
Awesome bonus for the rattlesnake drones. Bonus for missiles? What's the point?
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1060 - 2014-04-16 00:02:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
Euripedies wrote:
Awesome bonus for the rattlesnake drones. Bonus for missiles? What's the point?
Considering that you are only a half launcher behind the offerings of raven-kind ships with bonused missiles while still having good drone capabilities, I'd say that is the point.

That said, this is the cruiser thread, so...